A Simple Resquest

[Voodoo Nova]

Listen, by disrespecting him, you imply that he is not entitled to the respect every human being deserves.

I'm on my phone, so this is all I will say at the moment. Respect is not deserved, it is earned.

[Executive Minister]

You people must love putting words into my mouth, because you do it constantly. You are operating under the assumption that the way Arathog acted was worthy of respect. I am operating under the assumption that quitters do not deserve that respect. Every human being deserves respect, however the level of respect they deserve is dictated by their actions. With Arathog's actions, he receives less respect in my book than, say, JED, because of his actions.

That is what I just said. If your opinion is as such, there is nothing more to say. We fundamentally differ in that regard.

Then you need to read the thread, because I'm not the only one who has been mentioned who has come here to state our case. I've just been the most vocal and the only one online now.

By me saying,

"Sorry to make it seem like you are the only one, but as of right now, you are a good example of what IDTA made this thread for and are the only one that is here to defend yourself."

I am saying that, "Yes there were others mentioned in the thread, are they here right now and posting? No, they are not. Oh haii Pravus, I demand satisfaction, 30 paces, flintlock pistols."

I never said you have to put up with it. Again, you must love putting words into my mouth, because you do it constantly. You don't like it? Put me on ignore. My self-worth is not wrapped up in how some random people on some online forum see me. You all are not that important. You need to get over yourselves.

Look, because you've acted like whatever you say you are on a forum, it has forever been immortalized in the archives. Also, by reading what you post, we put up with your colorful demeanor.

However, that was not what I meant, I was referring to bringing your attitude over here and unleashing it on others.

As for putting you on ignore. I was a fry cook for many years in my early teens, and I am used to being in a hot kitchen. I will not leave if things get hot.

For someone who repeatedly states they have had words put in their mouth, you sure like to do it, don't you. Not once have I attacked your 'worth' or any semblance of it. Either way, you are right. Why you would conclude that your self worth is under attack escapes me.

I haven't said anything against the rules. I haven't received any warns. So, nothing that I have said has been out of line. It may be in your opinion, but that is your opinion. According to the forum rules, I have been within my bounds. So unless you have something to prove the contrary, you should stop talking about how my speech is "wrong" and "against the rules".

I will not suffer being reported for discussing mod issues. Although I'd say borderline. Borderline at best. However, don't put quotes around something I didn't say. I have not said your speech is against the rules, I was addressing your silly notion that America's freedom of speech translates to an internet forum with mods and rules.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Executive Minister

[Uberstein]

I'm on my phone, so this is all I will say at the moment. Respect is not deserved, it is earned.

But if you don't treat somebody with basic respect when you first meet them, why should they treat YOU with respect?

The system of "treat people like !@#$ unless I like them" leads to a spiral of hate.

That's why I've stopped ignoring people, I am trying to give people at least a basic amount of respect even if I really don't like them.

Edited December 9, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Sarah Tintagyl]

ALL RIGHT THAT'S ENOUGH!!!!

All of you shut up because honestly I really don't think you understand just how stupid you're all sounding. I haven't read many of the posts on this thread because honestly I don't want to get more peeved then I already am. The last few days have been hectic throughout CNRP, the Africa war caused someone to quit right? Okay to play devils advocate for a moment against those who are baawing that Arathog quit. The next time some n00b shows up and gets attacked for a stupid reason I better see all this baawing again. Likewise, you had better baaw when someone already established gets attacked for no god-damn reason either. People want this game to be totally fair and for everyone to respect each other. Christ you people couldn't respect each other if there was a reward at the end of it. I am pleased to say that I have and I can talk civilized to each one of you, I'm hoping that's not because of my gender, but hey moving on. If you can talk to me or if you can talk to Lynneth, or anyone without losing your temper, you should try to do it here as well.

Moving on to play against the superpowers. PLAN THE GODDAMN RP!! You are the aggressors, the full out aggressors, PM them ask them, look, we're going to war. I understand you don't want to go to war, but this is what is happening in the world. Now if you fight well enough, I'll def, be up for some agreements even if they're OOC. I'll let you keep your characters, I'll help you rebuild somewhere else, etc. Things like war should be done in the most respectful way possible, BY BOTH SIDES, so that the community can function together. All in all, did Lavo, Voodoo, SOM, Sargun, etc. need to plan for this war? No, no they did not. Is that taking sides?

Let me ask you all this simple question. Did America ask Saddam if we could invade him, no, no we did not. Yes I know this is a game, but don't you guys want a reflection of the real world? Isn't that why so many of you !@#$%* about realism? THIS IS PLANET EARTH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU CAN'T DO THAT !@#$! Right? I know I've heard that in forms before.

To conclude my rant...because I know I'm ranting. Stop bickering. This thread was unnecessary because deep down we all know that we should respect each other. But like any game, its hard, we want to win the game, we want more territory, we want everything to go just as we want it to and sometimes that doesn't always happen. ITDA is right to a degree that yes, there is someone beyond that screen, would it kill you to be the first to give the sign of respect? No I don't think it would.

Anyway...there you go...I just woke up so I'm in the same mood when I have to do most of my GM rulings...maybe its a pattern...after I nap I'm not going on CN for a hour. I think that'll solve everything.

Sincerely All of Yours,

Sarah Tintagyl

[Executive Minister]

EDIT: Spoke too soon.

Mods: Please delete. Accidentally hit reply too early. I'll start over.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Executive Minister

[Zoot Zoot]

EDIT

spoke too soon

Edited December 9, 2009 by Zoot Zoot

[Sabioviejo]

I don't want to win, I want to have fun writing with other people, not against other people. Even if there is battle in IC, that doesn't mean the game is not fun, on the contrary. Anyway, this horse is dead and I'm not gonna even respond to anyone else.

[Uberstein]

I don't want to win, I want to have fun writing with other people, not against other people. Even if there is battle in IC, that doesn't mean the game is not fun, on the contrary. Anyway, this horse is dead and I'm not gonna even respond to anyone else.

I like owning Finland, don't even feel the need to take all of Scandinavia again. It matters what people define as "winning". I personally view "Winning" as "Being a stable country doing interesting RP's and lasting as long as possible."

[Lynneth]

I don't want to win, I want to have fun writing with other people, not against other people. Even if there is battle in IC, that doesn't mean the game is not fun, on the contrary. Anyway, this horse is dead and I'm not gonna even respond to anyone else.

I like owning Finland, don't even feel the need to take all of Scandinavia again. It matters what people define as "winning". I personally view "Winning" as "Being a stable country doing interesting RP's and lasting as long as possible."

What these two gentlemen and scholars said.

[Executive Minister]

All of you shut up because honestly I really don't think you understand just how stupid you're all sounding. I haven't read many of the posts on this thread because honestly I don't want to get more peeved then I already am. The last few days have been hectic throughout CNRP, the Africa war caused someone to quit right? Okay to play devils advocate for a moment against those who are baawing that Arathog quit. The next time some n00b shows up and gets attacked for a stupid reason I better see all this baawing again. Likewise, you had better baaw when someone already established gets attacked for no god-damn reason either. People want this game to be totally fair and for everyone to respect each other. Christ you people couldn't respect each other if there was a reward at the end of it. I am pleased to say that I have and I can talk civilized to each one of you, I'm hoping that's not because of my gender, but hey moving on. If you can talk to me or if you can talk to Lynneth, or anyone without losing your temper, you should try to do it here as well.

1) You really should. You'd notice that we were not discussing the fact that Arathog ragequitted, but the responses during and after the fact. However, I will address your points.

2) If I see a newb, not a n00b, a newb, being attacked by extremely superior forces (ie: not someone they have a chance of fighting), yes, I will object. Newbs are a dying breed. They are being out eaten by the more numerous n00bs, their niches in our forum's ecosystems are being taken by n00bs and they are being hunted by predators to extinction. I will always attempt to take newbs under my wing and nurture them, as that is what they need in order to graduate to 'established' status.

No, I don't think I will object if someone established gets invaded as either a) they are capable of defending themselves with their IG stats, or b, they have dozens of allies ready to declare on their behalf the moment war is announced.

They already have mechanisms in place to help them fight back. Newbs do not have such fail safes, and need protection. Those decrying this fact by saying others have persevered do not realize that those cases are gems. Not all posters are as such, at least, not when they first start off.

Moving on to play against the superpowers. PLAN THE GODDAMN RP!! You are the aggressors, the full out aggressors, PM them ask them, look, we're going to war. I understand you don't want to go to war, but this is what is happening in the world. Now if you fight well enough, I'll def, be up for some agreements even if they're OOC. I'll let you keep your characters, I'll help you rebuild somewhere else, etc. Things like war should be done in the most respectful way possible, BY BOTH SIDES, so that the community can function together. All in all, did Lavo, Voodoo, SOM, Sargun, etc. need to plan for this war? No, no they did not. Is that taking sides?

Not a super power, moving on. I cannot speak for those who are.

Let me ask you all this simple question. Did America ask Saddam if we could invade him, no, no we did not. Yes I know this is a game, but don't you guys want a reflection of the real world? Isn't that why so many of you !@#$%* about realism? THIS IS PLANET EARTH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU CAN'T DO THAT !@#$! Right? I know I've heard that in forms before.

You see, real life does not include tech counts or spy roll success ratios. I sympathize that CNRP tries to mimic RL, however, this is still a game. There needs to be a fine balance.

'Saddam' to this day is still 'fighting' the Americans, so to speak, via the insurgents. But that is putting things extremely, extremely basically, ignoring all the complex geopolitical issues involved. CNRP is hardly that complex, and is not capable of simulating this.

To bring up Arathog's case, had he fought, and been destroyed like Saddam's regime did, he would not have been able to RP an insurgency comparable to Iraq's. For that matter, who would want to RP such a thing? It is distasteful at best. Under the current rules, if they declare victory over Italica, the land becomes theirs to RP. Any attempts would be shot down as, 'do not roleplay my citizens'.

Apparently with high enough tech counts (which only seem to matter in CNRP), people can declare their Omnipotence over their plots of land. The Americans have a supreme intelligence gathering capability, yet, did they see a two airplanes crashing into their cities and stop it? No. If someone tried to RP such a thing (again distasteful), they would immediately be asked for a spy roll. Failing that, 'No, we see the planes coming and your plot is foiled'.

In RL, those with laughable capabilities are still able to hit those much much larger than they are. With our current system, such is not the case. We cannot compare the two, no matter how much we'd like to. CN has a system in place that addresses this, Nation Strength. RL does not. CNRP must choose here whether to mimic CN or RL. While I prefer the former as being fairer to newbies, we must address this fundamental choice as a community.

To conclude my rant...because I know I'm ranting. Stop bickering. This thread was unnecessary because deep down we all know that we should respect each other. But like any game, its hard, we want to win the game, we want more territory, we want everything to go just as we want it to and sometimes that doesn't always happen. ITDA is right to a degree that yes, there is someone beyond that screen, would it kill you to be the first to give the sign of respect? No I don't think it would.

Pravus and I are not bickering. We are having a discussion. You are more than welcome to join, should this thread last. However, I do recognize that most of your post was a blanket statement- I don't take anything personally.

Anyway...there you go...I just woke up so I'm in the same mood when I have to do most of my GM rulings...maybe its a pattern...after I nap I'm not going on CN for a hour. I think that'll solve everything.

Sorry to wake you up. Go back to bed.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Executive Minister

[Uberstein]

Personally I think as long as you don't reroll you can RP an insurgency.

[Voodoo Nova]

But if you don't treat somebody with basic respect when you first meet them, why should they treat YOU with respect?

The system of "treat people like !@#$ unless I like them" leads to a spiral of hate.

That's why I've stopped ignoring people, I am trying to give people at least a basic amount of respect even if I really don't like them.

I do treat people with the basic level of respect. The concept of receiving respect is that it should not be deserved, entitled to, etc, but earned. Until someone makes me lose my respect for them, they'll get the basic amount that is required for polite interactions.

[Uberstein]

I do treat people with the basic level of respect. The concept of receiving respect is that it should not be deserved, entitled to, etc, but earned. Until someone makes me lose my respect for them, they'll get the basic amount that is required for polite interactions.

That is a good system, though personally I like the idea treating people with normal politeness no matter what you think of them.

Edited December 9, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Subtleknifewielder]

I'm on my phone, so this is all I will say at the moment. Respect is not deserved, it is earned.

Perhaps. Does that mean when I meet you I can constantly harass you?

Personally I think as long as you don't reroll you can RP an insurgency.

Yes, I'm an advocate for that right, but it's not made much progress.

[Voodoo Nova]

Perhaps. Does that mean when I meet you I can constantly harass you?

Yes, I'm an advocate for that right, but it's not made much progress.

Read my next post regarding that topic.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Read my next post regarding that topic.

Apologies, I did see it--after I posted. But I am now trying not to edit things too much unless it's to get rid of something I shouldn't have put there in the first place (i.e. OOC in an IC forum). or to fix type-o's. Gotta come down hard on those.

[Michael McBride]

Personally I think as long as you don't reroll you can RP an insurgency.

This was my understanding as well. This was actually my plan should I ever be invaded.

[Uberstein]

This was my understanding as well. This was actually my plan should I ever be invaded.

Yes. As long as they've only occupied the land and not annexed it (Aka I have a government-in-exile), they are still MY citizens and thus I control what MY citizens do.

[Tahsir]

That is a good system, though personally I like the idea treating people with normal politeness no matter what you think of them.

Off topic: You know, I tend treat everyone I don't know the same, and I once had someone say that I must not like them because of their ethnic background. All because I was treating them as equal to everyone else. Point is, everyone expects to be special. Fact of life. Even if you aren't being disrespectful others think you are disrespecting them for not giving them extra respect. /Off topic

[Uberstein]

Off topic: You know, I tend treat everyone I don't know the same, and I once had someone say that I must not like them because of their ethnic background. All because I was treating them as equal to everyone else. Point is, everyone expects to be special. Fact of life. Even if you aren't being disrespectful others think you are disrespecting them for not giving them extra respect. /Off topic

That's crazy. <__<

[Voodoo Nova]

Well, I did annex it...

[Nagato the Great]

My contribution to this discussion:

I try to treat everyone here, hell everyone on the Internet, the same. I don't call them "idiots" or whatever, because for all i damn know they could be astrophysicists who graduated from Harvard. But the point is, and I think a lot of people will agree, we tend to have more fun here when we all treat each other with respect, both here, and on IRC, which is where most of the disrespect really happens. When things tense up between people OOC, invariably it finds its way into IC--I'm pretty sure that that happens a lot. So, to sum it up, we have a better time when we all respect each other, so let's respect each other. It isn't really that hard to refrain from calling someone a dick or an !@#$%^&, so just don't do it.

As for the insurgency thing, I agree. It's more realistic than just, "hey, I took your land, so now all your people agree with me".

[kitex]

*sighs*

Some people shouldn't be on here if they cannot handle being insulted because of their IC actions, however, there is a limit to this and when it becomes that your insulting someone over OOC reasons, that should be dealt with seperately.

The main thing is that there needs to be a line between OOC stuff and IC stuff.

[Subtleknifewielder]

*sighs*

Some people shouldn't be on here if they cannot handle being insulted because of their IC actions, however, there is a limit to this and when it becomes that your insulting someone over OOC reasons, that should be dealt with seperately.

The main thing is that there needs to be a line between OOC stuff and IC stuff.

That's never going to change completely. Some will always bring OOC into IC, and vice versa to certain extent.

[HHAYD]

For those who feel a need to spray their anger onto the internet from stress such as exams and projects, just get off the computers and get those more urgent and important stuff done.