A Joint Notice from The Orange Defense Network, The International, and The Resistance

[Bob Ilyani]

What must be done is done.

o/ODN

o/Resistance

o/INT

[ty345]

It bears repeating that none of us bear any ill-will towards the remaining Orange Unity signatories.

I'd also like to mention that Dvdchnn deserves much respect and credit for his efforts to revitalize the bloc. It was his hard work that kept INT from withdrawing earlier.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have an intra-Orange war to plot.

-Craig

OK, so I say we have ODN and IRON on the same side for lulz, and then have everybody else on this side, claiming that they've all been tech raided...

Oops, wrong place for this.

Also, sad but necessary.

[Metal Shards]

o/TR

o/ODN

o/INT

Personally I have mixed feelings about this - but I'm sure this is for the best. I also want to give my respect to DVDCHNN for trying to get things rolling again - and I'm sure he's still working hard. The Big O is not down nor out - and orange unity will rise again!

[Style #386]

And orange was left better for it.

Do elaborate.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Style #386

[SilentFury]

All o/ The Orange Whales

Best of luck to orange though.. Regardless of out its still the best color int he game

[Lord Brendan]

It's certainly interesting to see the collapse of what was long considered the standard of team unity treaties.

[dvdcchn]

For what ever path(s) we take, we were brothers once, may we all find our way. Best wishes to you guys, it was a pleasure working with you.

Hail Orange

Edited December 3, 2009 by dvdcchn

[Metal Shards]

It's certainly interesting to see the collapse of what was long considered the standard of team unity treaties.

Well even though Orange alliances work together and get along very well - you shouldn't be apart of a treaty just for it's notoriety. If it's not right for you, you should take action. Not just sit inactive in an inactive treaty bloc - because it looks good. You should strive for something better. Not saying this is exactly the case in this situation, but just an opinion.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Metal Shards

[Thizzland]

*Pours OUT a little liquor

It is sad to see this day come. Hopefully we can stay united in spirit, and perhaps, down the road, revisit a more functional unity treaty.

Orange o7

[im317]

so this leaves just CON,IRON,R&R,OPA,TOP,TORN,MOON,Orion and GLOF right?

i want to make sure my records are correct.

[Jacob the Malignant]

IRON, R&R, OPA, TOP, TORN, and GLOF I think is the proper list, im317.

[Lord Fingolfin]

So The Resistance and The International were slightly more pliable than R&R was to ODN's entreaties.

Interesting. Well then, good luck to all of you I suppose. Oh and of course, obligatory "ZOMG! Lines being drawn!!".

[Heft]

I'm curious what exactly about OUT wasn't "working out" or you saw as no longer being the interests of the Orange Team? I know firsthand it was never the most exciting or even the tightest knit place, but surely there is something more than just that, yea?

[Captain Flinders]

The Citrus Accords are structured in such a way that any transformation into a reasonably functional organization is nigh impossible, requiring the cooperation of a large and diverse group of alliances with similarly diverse motives and aspirations.

That right there is called teamwork and compromise. You should look into that sometime.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Captain Flinders

[Raider]

VIVA INT

VIVA ODN

VIVA tR

This could not have been an easy choice and the collapse of the Orange Unity Treaty is saddening for me to watch. I was aware there was tension on my old color, but I didn't know things had fallen so low that OUT would start to fall apart.

[Rafael Nadal]

I'm curious what exactly about OUT wasn't "working out" or you saw as no longer being the interests of the Orange Team? I know firsthand it was never the most exciting or even the tightest knit place, but surely there is something more than just that, yea?

Probably for similar reasons I gave in my criticisms of OUT, which were both structural in the document, and with signatories of the document. Though really, it's mainly the structure of the document that allows/would allow for it to be used by the signatories in a manner that does not help our own alliances, nor any of our non-orange allies.

Since there's no real economic facet to the treaty, all that OUT is is an ODP. I wouldn't sign an ODP with TOP normally, so why would I keep this ODP with TOP?

That right there is called teamwork and compromise. You should look into that sometime.

Everybody should look into that sometime, except, color means nothing, so we're not all on the same team.

Edited December 3, 2009 by Rafael Nadal

[Barnaby von Farter]

I'm curious what exactly about OUT wasn't "working out" or you saw as no longer being the interests of the Orange Team? I know firsthand it was never the most exciting or even the tightest knit place, but surely there is something more than just that, yea?

This should be a satisfactory answer to your question:

First this:

Then this:

Make sense?

[Banksy]

so this leaves just CON,IRON,R&R,OPA,TOP,TORN,MOON,Orion and GLOF right?

i want to make sure my records are correct.

MOON merged with FnKa to form tR, CON merged with IRON

So The Resistance and The International were slightly more pliable than R&R was to ODN's entreaties.

Interesting. Well then, good luck to all of you I suppose. Oh and of course, obligatory "ZOMG! Lines being drawn!!".

Our allies came to this decision on their own :/

R&R is a sovereign entity- they can do whatever they like.

I'm curious what exactly about OUT wasn't "working out" or you saw as no longer being the interests of the Orange Team? I know firsthand it was never the most exciting or even the tightest knit place, but surely there is something more than just that, yea?

I can only speak for the ODN here. The document promotes orange unity. Orange is certainly not united. I wont give examples- because this shouldn't be an excuse for people to point the finger at each other- but the ODN felt it wasn't working, and we couldn't change it. So we left.

That right there is called teamwork and compromise. You should look into that sometime.

Are you actually familiar with the situation?

[Heft]

Probably for similar reasons I gave in my criticisms of OUT, which were both structural in the document, and with signatories of the document. Though really, it's mainly the structure of the document that allows/would allow for it to be used by the signatories in a manner that does not help our own alliances, nor any of our non-orange allies.

Since there's no real economic facet to the treaty, all that OUT is is an ODP. I wouldn't sign an ODP with TOP normally, so why would I keep this ODP with TOP?

Everybody should look into that sometime, except, color means nothing, so we're not all on the same team.

There's also a very clear political weight behind the treaty, as well as at least an implicit economic benefit, both of which have generally benefited everyone involved.

I can only speak for the ODN here. The document promotes orange unity. Orange is certainly not united. I wont give examples- because this shouldn't be an excuse for people to point the finger at each other- but the ODN felt it wasn't working, and we couldn't change it. So we left.

But why now? These issues are hardly new, and from the sounds of it there appears to be more interest in renewing at least some of OUT's promise than there has been in a long time.

[Barnaby von Farter]

But why now? These issues are hardly new, and from the sounds of it there appears to be more interest in renewing at least some of OUT's promise than there has been in a long time.

Please define 'it' and 'long time'

(bold is mine)

[Soccerbum]

That right there is called teamwork and compromise. You should look into that sometime.

This is actually really funny because teamwork and compromise is something that the ODN was working towards from the existence of OUT up until our leaving of OUT. The ODN had a great discussion in terms of what we wanted to do with the Orange Unity Treaty. All facets of our alliance from the government down to the General Assembly member put their input in. At the end of the day, we resolved that the OUT was not *all that important* to us anymore. We still have a great love for many of the alliances on the Orange Team, but the treaty wasn't really working out for us anymore. Also, if you are not familiar with the workings of OUT, then you would not be familiar with the fact that teamwork and compromise were not always followed by all parties of the treaty. There were things that were proposed by ODN while we were part of OUT that some did not like, and there were things proposed by other alliances that other parts of OUT didn't like. Rather than compromise, the party that offered a solution or a suggestion would just get shouted at and eventually shut up. One instance that stands out is when Senator Yawoo from MOON suggested a rotating Senate selection. That was.. a disaster. There were other times, however, where the OUT did work together very well (for the most part). See: TORN's call to arms to stop Orange on Orange conflict (which, ironically, ended in Orange on Orange conflict). Regardless, I can say that ODN has enjoyed its time in OUT for the most part (at least from my perspective), and that maybe sometime in the future we can reconcile the differences that were never reconciled in OUT. Orange is still the best color out there with or without this treaty, and I hope we can all keep building up strong and keep working on trading with one another.

[im317]

MOON merged with FnKa to form tR, CON merged with IRON

thanks, i knew about the CON thing when it happened yet i forgot to remove there stuff from my lists.

[Heft]

Please define 'it' and 'long time'

(bold is mine)

This thread, and the discussion and comments. There don't seem to be any recent (say, post-Karma) grievances with OUT, and in fact there seems to have actually been a loosening of some of the prior conservatism that frustrated so many people (dissolution of OST, for example). dvdcchn has been cited in this thread alone quite a bit. Yet for some reason, we're seeing this splintering occurring now rather than any of the other times OUT was threatened. Never before (say, pre-Karma) would these alliances have seriously considered leaving OUT (well maybe Vanguard, but even they still stayed on despite their frustration). I don't see anything today that is more or even as damaging as some of the trials OUT has gone through before.

[Rafael Nadal]

This thread, and the discussion and comments. There don't seem to be any recent (say, post-Karma) grievances with OUT, and in fact there seems to have actually been a loosening of some of the prior conservatism that frustrated so many people (dissolution of OST, for example). dvdcchn has been cited in this thread alone quite a bit. Yet for some reason, we're seeing this splintering occurring now rather than any of the other times OUT was threatened. Never before (say, pre-Karma) would these alliances have seriously considered leaving OUT (well maybe Vanguard, but even they still stayed on despite their frustration). I don't see anything today that is more or even as damaging as some of the trials OUT has gone through before.

I believe the other alliances are democratic, and radical changes, such as leaving a long time institution like OUT, are usually not carried out in a quick manner.

Or perhaps they wanted one last hurrah to try and reform it, but that failed. I don't really know, nor do I really care.

[WalkerNinja]

I was around at the creation of OUT, and involved early on in building it up. It pained me to have to vote for leaving it. It was a great achievement and a milestone in the politics of Planet Bob. But in my judgment and the judgment of the ODN Senate, and the decision-making bodies of our comrades in The International and The Resistance, it no longer serves the interests of the Orange Sphere, or of the alliances leaving it. Let us work to find other ways to help the sphere prosper.

I will be forming an Orange based treaty organization which will oversee the acquisition and distribution of herring. Would you be interested in joining such an organization?