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The end of false morality


Jack Diorno
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Just to clarify, the protection that Jgoods has posted here is only against tech raids. If someone declares on Kap Bambino by posting a declaration of war in this venue (no matter what CB is used), we will most expressly not be defending them, under any circumstances. This is by design. If someone has enough of a political problem with Kap Bambino to attack them as part of a formal declaration of war, then Athens will not interfere.

The only reason we are doing this much is because, as Jgoods said, Jack Diorno is a longtime member of Athens and a longtime friend of ours. Careful logical evaluation of all of his ideas has not been made, although we do find them to be interesting. He is on his own, to succeed or fail in his ambitions as the community sees fit.

But please, do not tech raid him. :)

So I can declare war on him for a political reason, however justified or unjustified it may be and Athens will not interfere, but if I just want to do a few attacks to garner a bit of tech, Athens will raise hell?

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We live in a world ruled by tyranny. Any alliance that attempts to bring war to her enemies has to face the screeching hordes of interventionist alliances threatening retribution in the name of false morality. This intervention by uninvolved parties into matters that do not concern them is nothing but power abuse. I can no longer stand by while large alliances use their strength and political might to force undue restrictions on smaller alliances.

...

So... what you're saying is, you can't stand the interventionists, so you're going to intervene whenever they do. Nicely put. I'm going to go back to my cereal now.

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So I can declare war on him for a political reason, however justified or unjustified it may be and Athens will not interfere, but if I just want to do a few attacks to garner a bit of tech, Athens will raise hell?

If you post a proclamation of your attack on him along with its reasons in this venue, we are fine with it. If you don't, then there will be an issue.

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My best bet is convenience.

I mean yeah. Anything which suits our needs is expedient, even at the cost of "morals."

That's all it is, convenience. Drawing attention to oneself with an ideology than shifting it every so often so long as it suits him.

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If you post a proclamation of your attack on him along with its reasons in this venue, we are fine with it. If you don't, then there will be an issue.

So where do you draw the line? If I post a proclamation of my attack, and my CB is "I want Jack's Tech", would Athens interfere?

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If you post a proclamation of your attack on him along with its reasons in this venue, we are fine with it. If you don't, then there will be an issue.

You know, for some reason I'm detecting a hint of irony in this. :huh:

Edited by Voytek
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So where do you draw the line? If I post a proclamation of my attack, and my CB is "I want Jack's Tech", would Athens interfere?

Our agreement is intended to protect him from common tech raids. It would be socially accepted for him to be attacked on a 1 man AA, and the greater community wouldn't even bat an eye if someone ZIed him. The community does retain a distinction between tech raids on 1 man AAs and declarations of war on 1 man AAs. That's part of his point here I think, tbh. If you're willing to make a DoW here, then no, we won't be defending him. Although, you would need to multiply your NS by roughly 10 in order to declare on him.

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Our agreement is intended to protect him from common tech raids. It would be socially accepted for him to be attacked on a 1 man AA, and the greater community wouldn't even bat an eye if someone ZIed him. The community does retain a distinction between tech raids on 1 man AAs and declarations of war on 1 man AAs. That's part of his point here I think, tbh. If you're willing to make a DoW here, then no, we won't be defending him. Although, you would need to multiply your NS by roughly 10 in order to declare on him.

Heh, I'm well aware of the limitations of my nation. I was only speaking hypothetically.

So do you guys have something against common tech raids then?

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Heh, I'm well aware of the limitations of my nation. I was only speaking hypothetically.

So do you guys have something against common tech raids then?

Not at all. But we are going to be protecting Jack from them. It's like how [OOC]I don't have a problem with killing under certain circumstances, such as self-defense, but I would still protect a friend from it.[/OOC]

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Not at all. But we are going to be protecting Jack from them. It's like how [OOC]I don't have a problem with killing under certain circumstances, such as self-defense, but I would still protect a friend from it.[/OOC]

But Infra > Friends. You can't do that!

Also, good luck to Athens. You know I love you all, well mostly just rsox, but the rest of the alliance is ok too I guess...

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Not at all. But we are going to be protecting Jack from them. It's like how [OOC]I don't have a problem with killing under certain circumstances, such as self-defense, but I would still protect a friend from it.[/OOC]

So... Tech raiding is fine, as long as you don't tech raid Athens or any of Athens' friends?

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Please, Jack Diorno, think about the ramifications of your actions here, and the effects they may have on peace and stability on Planet Bob. We are as close to obtaining an everlasting peace as we have ever been, so please choose your words and actions wisely, as peace is ultimately what we all are striving for.

You scare me....

Also, Athens r bad, immoral and ebil

Edited by wickedj
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In all these years of Cyber Nations this surely is the most self-righteous and self-important OP I have ever read.

You must not have been paying attention during the Karma war, Archon definately has him beat on self-righteous. Jack wins on self-importantness, though.

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Isn't that how most alliances act? Obviously they're not going to let you tech raid their alliance... Just as any alliance has the right to not let anyone raid their respected alliance...

It is how most alliances act. However, it's also an imposition to an alliance about what they can and cannot do. Mind you, it's a stance that I completely agree with, but since it's inherently a form of passive moral interventionism (you can't raid my friends because I will hurt you because I value my friends), it also means that if I tech raid Jack, and Athens declares war on me, then Jack has to declare war on Athens.

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So... Tech raiding is fine, as long as you don't tech raid Athens or any of Athens' friends?

Tech raiding of nations that fit into standards accepted by the community is fine. This typically includes all nations in AAs of 20? 15? 10? or smaller, when said AAs don't have protection from raids. Since Jack does have protection from raids, raiding him is not acceptable by the community's standards. I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at here.

It is how most alliances act. However, it's also an imposition to an alliance about what they can and cannot do. Mind you, it's a stance that I completely agree with, but since it's inherently a form of passive moral interventionism (you can't raid my friends because I will hurt you because I value my friends), it also means that if I tech raid Jack, and Athens declares war on me, then Jack has to declare war on Athens.

I think you need to re-read his charter. ;)

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Excellent point.

It's not an excellent point at all. The charter clearly states that intervention from uninvolved parties is the problem. By declaring now that Athens will protect KB from all tech raiders, they are declaring that they will be an involved party should anyone decide to tech raid KB. It's a nonsensical point that has no real logic behind it. Far from excellent.

Having said that I think this alliance is borderline idiotic, has no chance of any sort of success, but as long as Jack Diorno's having fun then good luck to him.

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It's not an excellent point at all. The charter clearly states that intervention from uninvolved parties is the problem. By declaring now that Athens will protect KB from all tech raiders, they are declaring that they will be an involved party should anyone decide to tech raid KB. It's a nonsensical point that has no real logic behind it. Far from excellent.

Having said that I think this alliance is borderline idiotic, has no chance of any sort of success, but as long as Jack Diorno's having fun then good luck to him.

Ok, let's fix it, then:

Nonsensical point.

And yeah, I don't see this having any success. I'm still wondering how could this one man alliance do anything about these "tyrannic" alliances.

Considering that:

Kap Bambino will not sign any form of binding treaty with a foreign entity.

Oh, and I lold about this:

Part b – A state of war will not be declared, if the offending alliance is considered to be at a military disadvantage.

I'm afraid KB will never be in the above mentioned circumstance.

edit: error

Edited by Senekis
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