What the Vox Movement Represented [Note: Now IC]

[Bob Janova]

I don't think Vox's propaganda did that much, but their spying certainly did. Continuum splintered to a large degree because of the paranoia that gripped it because of the spying, and the resulting lack of communication between the members. And in my opinion, it was the splintering of Continuum that brought about the increase in anti-Order rhetoric on these forums, not the other way around. With the NPO's power base weakened (and the NpO out of power due to the war earlier in 2008), there was no longer a sense of fear that alliances could be rolled over nothing. The partly moralist CB behind the Polar war also indicated that large parts of the MDP web were not going to support oppression of those opinions.

So yes, Vox was a big deal in changing the world, but through its covert activities. Its posts here were more a symptom of the changing world than its cause, in my opinion.

[Starfox101]

I was going to be all smart and play that little game, but no, I'll tell you. You sounded just like the very people you fought against, and it disgusts me. Publicly airing this new attitude of yours not only spits in the face of every Voxian who did not share your selfish motivations, it also disgraces the nine months of work you yourself put in to the cause. You could have just joined the enemy and saved yourself the effort; I see now you would have fitted in perfectly.

Where is all this venom coming from, Kent? I think you are overreacting to a simple statement. I was approached in an aggressive manner by that moralist guy, who apparently thought I was speaking to him, and put him in his place. If someone acts like they have 20 million NS, and they have 60k, that's simply a joke.

Lastly, how was I selfish in the least? I fought for others as well, and my actions directly contributed to change. Because I wanted to help myself I am a bad person? You're buying far too into Francesca talk and ignoring the reality of things, Kent.

Hardly.

As others have already explained it, while those in the highest rank maybe now think how Vox was irrelevant for achieving their long term goals, Vox impact on the rank and file members was tremendous specially, their directing of public opinion was unparalleled and quite important.

It amuses me now to see some selective parts of the "karma" coalition downplaying role of Vox and NPO members giving credit where it is due.

Seems that opportunists that hanged onto the coattail of Pacifica for so long and then switched to ride on the earth quake Vox produced now want to make themselves look more grandiose.

Dunno who you think you are kidding,...

Anyway, the current state is a product of not one, but many things. All are basically correct. Yes, the web, this board being downplayed in favor of irc, high damages of war, strong political discipline in avoiding wars at almost all costs, avoiding drama at all costs, etc. But the planet made a evolution it did and whatyagonnado. We will see where it goes from here,...those who will stay of course.

Too true, Branimir. The ego's of these Karma folk who hid from the NPO by allying them and hiding in backrooms simply amazes me.

What Gremlins did in Karma war and the preceeding months had more relevance than anything Vox has ever done in their whole existance. You guys were considered a joke even in the governments of supposed supporters. All you did was sit grumpily in a corner and complain how evil everyone was. We were the first crack in Continuum. We voiced our support in favour of VE when they almost got rolled and finally fought IRONs upper tiers alongside RoK, Fark, MHA and FCC. Go pack your self crafted medals and go home.

Really. You're completely ridiculous. Since we were considered jokes by the fine fellows of The Citadel our movement was worthless? We changed the minds of the masses, while you took ages to finally mobilize against the forces of Pacifica. You would have never grown the spine to finally violently act against Pacifica if the public was not for the change.

I hope you get rolled next just simply for this one post.

[Azaghul]

I don't think Vox's propaganda did that much, but their spying certainly did. Continuum splintered to a large degree because of the paranoia that gripped it because of the spying, and the resulting lack of communication between the members. And in my opinion, it was the splintering of Continuum that brought about the increase in anti-Order rhetoric on these forums, not the other way around. With the NPO's power base weakened (and the NpO out of power due to the war earlier in 2008), there was no longer a sense of fear that alliances could be rolled over nothing. The partly moralist CB behind the Polar war also indicated that large parts of the MDP web were not going to support oppression of those opinions.

So yes, Vox was a big deal in changing the world, but through its covert activities. Its posts here were more a symptom of the changing world than its cause, in my opinion.

They used their propaganda to exploit the spying campaign and publicized it well, you can't separate the two completely.

[HellAngel]

Really. You're completely ridiculous. Since we were considered jokes by the fine fellows of The Citadel our movement was worthless? We changed the minds of the masses, while you took ages to finally mobilize against the forces of Pacifica. You would have never grown the spine to finally violently act against Pacifica if the public was not for the change.

I hope you get rolled next just simply for this one post.

We've had a spine and stood to our ideals long before it was fashion and we will still stand to it when the cyberverse decides moralism is boring and rolls over us. And yeah i know its going to happen, it's only a matter of time.

Thats what differs us from you. When you were in WUT, you didnt give two cents about ideals or moralism. Thats why i dont respect you for anything you have done. You just did it because you were an outcast and you couldnt continue being the old you. Look at which people Vox collected. Those were among the ones enforcing the very principles Vox stood against shortly before they joined. As you correctly admitted, Vox was driven by the will for revenge.

[Chickenzilla]

What Gremlins did in Karma war and the preceeding months had more relevance than anything Vox has ever done in their whole existance. You guys were considered a joke even in the governments of supposed supporters. All you did was sit grumpily in a corner and complain how evil everyone was. We were the first crack in Continuum. We voiced our support in favour of VE when they almost got rolled and finally fought IRONs upper tiers alongside RoK, Fark, MHA and FCC. Go pack your self crafted medals and go home.

First crack? Maybe, but if anything it was unintentional. The only thing you did for the movement was scare some people away from joining the Q side with your high NS.

[Kindom of Goon]

I find people whinging about the moralistic folk making things boring strange. If you don't like it then ignore it and carry on having your 'fun'. After all the only way you can be stopped is via war, and there is nothing boring about that. Moaning about it is like moaning about someone returning the ball in a Tennis match rather then letting you have an ace.

As for Vox, they definately helped make a difference, but I think the large number of angry folks that came out as a result of the noCB war probably made this inevitable anyway.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Kindom of Goon

[OberstKrieger]

Give me a break. Vox did not remove NPO from power and the idea that it did is utterly absurd. That was a mixture of Karma's doing and Pacifica's own laxity. Why don't you go peddle your revionism somewhere else?

Okay, let me rephrase that. The goals that Vox Populi had were precisely accomplished. Whether or not they had anything to do with it was irrelevant to my point, if you had felt like reading the post.

[Starfox101]

We've had a spine and stood to our ideals long before it was fashion and we will still stand to it when the cyberverse decides moralism is boring and rolls over us. And yeah i know its going to happen, it's only a matter of time.

Thats what differs us from you. When you were in WUT, you didnt give two cents about ideals or moralism. Thats why i dont respect you for anything you have done. You just did it because you were an outcast and you couldnt continue being the old you. Look at which people Vox collected. Those were among the ones enforcing the very principles Vox stood against shortly before they joined. As you correctly admitted, Vox was driven by the will for revenge.

You held that treaty for quite a while, didn't you?

What does WUT have to do with any of this? Besides, your point is wrong, I was the only member of WUT government to argue against LUE's terms.

Besides, who am I to judge people? And yes, you will be rolled one day.

[Qaianna]

As others have already explained it, while those in the highest rank maybe now think how Vox was irrelevant for achieving their long term goals, Vox impact on the rank and file members was tremendous specially, their directing of public opinion was unparalleled and quite important.

It amuses me now to see some selective parts of the "karma" coalition downplaying role of Vox and NPO members giving credit where it is due.

Seems that opportunists that hanged onto the coattail of Pacifica for so long and then switched to ride on the earth quake Vox produced now want to make themselves look more grandiose.

Dunno who you think you are kidding,...

I remember quite a few folks asking just that question when it was happening, about folks bailing out. And hey, no-one's ever accused the New Pacific Order of not being realistic about things. You've been accused of about everything else, but not that. I think. (Don't send me links if I'm wrong.)

I think part of what made me snark at them not succeeding at the long-term goals (more wars) was a little bit of bitterness. I'm still not a fan of some of the techniques used. As far as the morality card being played? I don't see that genie being put back in its bottle in my lifetime.

[Vilien]

Where is all this venom coming from, Kent? I think you are overreacting to a simple statement. I was approached in an aggressive manner by that moralist guy, who apparently thought I was speaking to him, and put him in his place. If someone acts like they have 20 million NS, and they have 60k, that's simply a joke.

Can you believe someone without a sanctioned alliance to stand behind would dare contradict you? Preposterous.

[AlmightyGrub]

Can you believe someone without a sanctioned alliance to stand behind would dare contradict you? Preposterous.

Can you believe that someone with a sanctioned alliance to stand in front of would dare contradict Starfox?

To the OP, you have always been a try-hard going nowhere in particular which is why you are never sure where you are when you arrive. You have always placed a very high value on your extremely conceited view points and I for one welcome you taking a more direct role in re-shaping CN yet again in your new image.

Your almost righteous zeal in condemning those committed to fair play and ethical behaviour says much about your own character and your confusion between reasonable settlement of disagreements and total warfare as the only solution peg you firmly as a relic of the past.

Please feel free to arrange a suitable coalition of alliances to oppose my neo-moralist movement (I don't recall starting one, but apparently I am a fully fledged Starfox neo-moralist scumbag) I can give you a list of people who dislike me if that will help you get started.

[Dochartaigh]

heh. i spoke out against FoB/Athens due to their actions. i may not like Athens now, but when they first began i loved them. it was their actions/Londo that mainly turned me against them. FoB, i have never really much liked at all.

as for moralism, it has and always will be around. It was used by LUE and others in GPW and onwards from what i can remember.

[Xiphosis]

To the OP, you have always been a try-hard going nowhere in particular which is why you are never sure where you are when you arrive. You have always placed a very high value on your extremely conceited view points and I for one welcome you taking a more direct role in re-shaping CN yet again in your new image.

[OOC] Hey look, the guy who writes fortune cookies plays CN. [/OOC]

Your almost righteous zeal in condemning those committed to fair play and ethical behaviour says much about your own character

Your willingness to revert to old habits the second the war ended says much about you as well. Just because you love criticizing others doesn't make you immune to hypocrisy, no matter what the volume.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Xiphosis

[cookavich]

Your willingness to revert to old habits the second the war ended says much about you as well. Just because you love criticizing others doesn't make you immune to hypocrisy, no matter what the volume.

What is with people and pulling out the hypocrisy card on Grub? And by people I mean Superfriends.

[Jacques Cousteau]

heh. i spoke out against FoB/Athens due to their actions. i may not like Athens now, but when they first began i loved them. it was their actions/Londo that mainly turned me against them. FoB, i have never really much liked at all.

as for moralism, it has and always will be around. It was used by LUE and others in GPW and onwards from what i can remember.

That is a shame, really. I think you would find us buccaneers to be quite likable in the right circumstances.

But i agree partially. Moralism will always be used as a tool by people and an effective tool at that. But we must try to remember that that is all it is.

[AlmightyGrub]

[OOC] Hey look, the guy who writes fortune cookies plays CN. [/OOC]

Your willingness to revert to old habits the second the war ended says much about you as well. Just because you love criticizing others doesn't make you immune to hypocrisy, no matter what the volume.

You make me ill. Get your rag tag coalition together and stop talking about it.

[rsoxbronco1]

You make me ill. Get your rag tag coalition together and stop talking about it.

If I ever have a double-fudge sundae that begins to approach the richness of this post I'll let you know.

[AlmightyGrub]

If I ever have a double-fudge sundae that begins to approach the richness of this post I'll let you know.

The irony is not lost on me, however just because I allow myself to be reasonably persuaded doesn't mean I am all talk.. try me.

[rsoxbronco1]

The irony is not lost on me, however just because I allow myself to be reasonably persuaded doesn't mean I am all talk.. try me.

Just as long as you realize your sponge is showing. And not the cool Ministry of Science sponge.

[AlmightyGrub]

Just as long as you realize your sponge is showing. And not the cool Ministry of Science sponge.

Cute. I will bear that in mind.

[Remaliat]

If you ask me this world could use a bit more Sponge and a bit more Doitzel, most leaders are cowards now a days.

[Manwe]

Back on topic please.

[Mixoux]

You make me ill. Get your rag tag coalition together and stop talking about it.

Well, that didn't take long.

From now on, Athens members are forbidden to use the appeal to force in discourse on these venues. This essentially means that saying "bring it" or "do something about it" will not be tolerated as a means of communication.

This is a good move forwards that we should all embrace whole-heartedly. I commit Polaris to a similar standard.

[Matthew Conrad]

This is such a beautiful thread in so many ways.

[Seth Muscarella]

From now on, Athens members are forbidden to use the appeal to force in discourse on these venues. This essentially means that saying "bring it" or "do something about it" will not be tolerated as a means of communication. Violations of this which are brought to my attention will result in a 1 month posting ban on the OWF. Violations of the posting ban will result in expulsion.

This is a good move forwards that we should all embrace whole-heartedly. I commit Polaris to a similar standard.

members =/= gov?

Edited November 30, 2009 by Sethly