Doing It Better Than Jack

[steodonn]

Does The Lonely Man have any proof actually suggesting he actually got it from a "friend"? Its a double edge sword. I'd trust the word of people well known in the community rather then some angry NPO reroll reject.

A classic no you. Why dose he have to prove his innocence

[Branimir]

If one says he got it from some guy freely, and others say they never shared it with anyone, then you have a situation word against word. Plain and simple.

Who you believe in such situations is a matter of your judgment always mostly shaped by "who you like/dislike more" and loyalties. We can go pages debating it pointlessly, honestly, I just feel quite flattered also worried for this place that after 4 months of us being down with being hardly in any center of power and with considerable amount of time in such position yet to come, we are still at the top of topics for discussion.

Seriously, the rest of you needs to pick up the rhythm or we as might shut this thing down right now.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Branimir

[Retto]

A classic no you. Why dose he have to prove his innocence

If he doesn't have to prove his innocence why do Lou and Umbrae have to "prove' they never dumped their logs? Its the same thing. Why are the words of one not as good as the other? Step outside and try and look at it objectively for a moment.

You all preach that we at the NPO should start showing others "respect" and whatever, but no matter how hard we try there is always some person out there with a grudge ready to sling mud at us. And for some reason the mud slingers are never to blame, But the NPO is. Its unfair for the lot of you to demand better of us in one hand then slap us in the face with the other constantly.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Retto

[D34th]

If he doesn't have to prove his innocence why do Lou and Umbrae have to "prove' they never dumped their logs? Its the same thing. Why are the words of one not as good as the other? Step outside and try and look at it objectively for a moment.

You all preach that we at the NPO should start showing others "respect" and whatever, but no matter how hard we try there is always some person out there with a grudge ready to sling mud at us. And for some reason the mud slingers are never to blame, But the NPO is. Its unfair for the lot of you to demand better of us in one hand then slap us in the face with the other constantly.

Lou and Umbrae do not have to prove nothing unless NPO wants that The Lonely Man to be punished for using ilegal methods to get the logs.

[steodonn]

If he doesn't have to prove his innocence why do Lou and Umbrae have to "prove' they never dumped their logs? Its the same thing. Why are the words of one not as good as the other? Step outside and try and look at it objectively for a moment.

You all preach that we at the NPO should start showing others "respect" and whatever, but no matter how hard we try there is always some person out there with a grudge ready to sling mud at us. And for some reason the mud slingers are never to blame, But the NPO is. Its unfair for the lot of you to demand better of us in one hand then slap us in the face with the other constantly.

[OOC]Because Dilber accused him of doing something illegal. You really need to back something like that up[/OOC]

Lou and Umbrae don't have to prove they dident leak the logs either but you do have to prove that The Lonely Man was indeed the one who took them via illegal methods.

[Goldie]

You know as well as I that every alliance accepts information.

i cant believe it took even 24 posts to get someone to post this.

thank you sal

[Sal Paradise]

I'd trust the word of people well known in the community rather then some angry NPO reroll reject.

Ah, but you need to ask yourself what they're well known for.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Sal Paradise

[hammer]

If the NPO has evidence of illegal activities by one of my members then I would like to see it. Otherwise such statements mean little to me.

The NSO does not condone illegal activities. I find being placed on the spot over it publicly to be a bit offputting. It isn't like he deleted a privately owned database and was made an IO or anything.

This post right here provides more entertainment than the OP or !@#$%* for that matter (emphasis mine)

[Daikos]

If he doesn't have to prove his innocence why do Lou and Umbrae have to "prove' they never dumped their logs? Its the same thing. Why are the words of one not as good as the other? Step outside and try and look at it objectively for a moment.

You all preach that we at the NPO should start showing others "respect" and whatever, but no matter how hard we try there is always some person out there with a grudge ready to sling mud at us. And for some reason the mud slingers are never to blame, But the NPO is. Its unfair for the lot of you to demand better of us in one hand then slap us in the face with the other constantly.

Likely because the idea that these logs were obtained through less than legal methods ([ooc] essentially breaking into one of these two individuals computers, installing keylogging software, monitoring said software and ensuring that it wasn't detected all to obtain logs, all while risking serious real life consequences [/ooc] ) is much more far fetched then the idea that members of an alliance who has had senior members leak logs before has suffered the same fate again. Occam's razor right here folks.

[Dilber]

OOC: I didn't accuse LonelyMan of being the one to grab them. We were aware the logs were on !@#$%*. After they were found, Loucifer had found keylogger on his computer. No, I am not going to list which one, as we're still doing an ongoing investigation. There are three ways that the logs could have been obtained. 1. Illegal means on the computer. 2. IRCop leaks logs from the server. 3. Umbrae and Loucifer decide to put a venting conversation up on !@#$%*, and then leave it up in an attempt to hurt the NPO.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

OOC: I didn't accuse LonelyMan of being the one to grab them. We were aware the logs were on !@#$%*. After they were found, Loucifer had found keylogger on his computer. No, I am not going to list which one, as we're still doing an ongoing investigation. There are three ways that the logs could have been obtained. 1. Illegal means on the computer. 2. IRCop leaks logs from the server. 3. Umbrae and Loucifer decide to put a venting conversation up on !@#$%*, and then leave it up in an attempt to hurt the NPO.

a Keylogger wouldn't do anything.

It'd pick up the words Loucifer typed, and nothing more. There'd be no names next to quotes, and Umbrae replies wouldn't be picked up because the keylogger logs the keys you press, not text you can see on your screen, or text someone else sends you. So that rules out illegal means.

Unless you know of another illegal method

Edited November 29, 2009 by Johnny Apocalypse

[steodonn]

a Keylogger wouldn't do anything.

It'd pick up the words Loucifer typed, and nothing more. There'd be no names next to quotes, and Umbrae replies wouldn't be picked up because the keylogger logs the keys you press, not text you can see on your screen, or text someone else sends you. So that rules out illegal means.

Unless you know of another illegal method

You underestimate the power of modern keyloggers may do in fact have a screen logging function

[Johnny Apocalypse]

You underestimate the power of modern keyloggers may do in fact have a screen logging function

I'm still living in the 1990s, sorry. Even so it's a pretty bold claim to make. I wouldn't rule out Umbrae and Loucifer posting this on !@#$%* to damage Pacifica, sounds like maybe the old guard aren't too happy with the way things are going at the moment.

[OOC]Also, what use would screenlogging be if you were trying to find out someones password?[/OOC]

[steodonn]

I'm still living in the 1990s, sorry. Even so it's a pretty bold claim to make. I wouldn't rule out Umbrae and Loucifer posting this on !@#$%* to damage Pacifica, sounds like maybe the old guard aren't too happy with the way things are going at the moment.

[OOC]Also, what use would screenlogging be if you were trying to find out someones password?[/OOC]

And the IRCops on coldfornt don't have the best reputation

[OOC] Not just passwords but bank details, emails ect also useful for touchscreen computers and various dubious actions ( and stealing logs in CN )[/OOC]

[wickedj]

that is a HELL of a lot of trouble to go through to get some damn logs. I'd hope if he found a keylogger hes atleast smart enough to promptly change every password he has from IRC to email to personal stuff like banks

[Johnny Apocalypse]

that is a HELL of a lot of trouble to go through to get some damn logs. I'd hope if he found a keylogger hes atleast smart enough to promptly change every password he has from IRC to email to personal stuff like banks

Loucifer upon discovering keylogger:

OH NO MY IRC LOGS!

[steodonn]

Loucifer upon discovering keylogger:

OH NO MY IRC LOGS!

You mean there is more that computers can do beside play CN

Blasphemous

[wickedj]

Loucifer upon discovering keylogger:

OH NO MY IRC LOGS!

rofl

Someone had a good Black Friday if Loucifer logged into his bank account from home

[TehChron]

I'm still living in the 1990s, sorry. Even so it's a pretty bold claim to make. I wouldn't rule out Umbrae and Loucifer posting this on !@#$%* to damage Pacifica, sounds like maybe the old guard aren't too happy with the way things are going at the moment.

Good lord I am ancient.

[Kzoppistan]

Keylogger? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

[Bob Janova]

OOC: To be honest, nobody cares enough about CN to hack your computer to get at CN logs, particularly those as uninteresting as this. I'm sure there is far more interesting material on your screen, bank accounts, email and the like; even within CN, as a NPO IO, there will be a lot better material than this. No way am I going to believe nefarious means were used to get at this without solid proof – and if you get that, please report it to the hacker's local police service.

modern keyloggers may do in fact have a screen logging function

A keylogger logs keys. Yes, some malware includes a keylogger as well as other screen-scraping software, address book snoopers, and so on. To call such a mixed bag of malice a 'keylogger' is misleading. IRC isn't something that would usually be looked for by such a program, though.

[wickedj]

Curious, if there was a keylogger how come this is the ONLY thing we've gotten out of this? I mean surely it logged days if not weeks of NPO stuff where something of interest went down. surely this logged his password on the forums allowing someone to browse private parts of your forum

[RandomInterrupt]

OOC: I didn't accuse LonelyMan of being the one to grab them. We were aware the logs were on !@#$%*. After they were found, Loucifer had found keylogger on his computer. No, I am not going to list which one, as we're still doing an ongoing investigation. There are three ways that the logs could have been obtained. 1. Illegal means on the computer. 2. IRCop leaks logs from the server. 3. Umbrae and Loucifer decide to put a venting conversation up on !@#$%*, and then leave it up in an attempt to hurt the NPO.

Occam's razor says you need to have a chat with Mr. Loucifer and Mr. Umbrae. And I say correlation is not causation.

[Lonely]

OOC: I didn't accuse LonelyMan of being the one to grab them. We were aware the logs were on !@#$%*. After they were found, Loucifer had found keylogger on his computer. No, I am not going to list which one, as we're still doing an ongoing investigation. There are three ways that the logs could have been obtained. 1. Illegal means on the computer. 2. IRCop leaks logs from the server. 3. Umbrae and Loucifer decide to put a venting conversation up on !@#$%*, and then leave it up in an attempt to hurt the NPO.

I'd just like to point out that:

1.As has already been pointed out, a keylogger would only record half the conversation. Besides, if I'd really had a keylogger on there, don't you think I could've got something a lot more interesting than this? And perhaps more material than I've provided?

2.IRCops on Coldfront do not have access to query logs.

3. Perhaps this is an oversimplification. Perhaps Loucifer or Umbrae leaked those logs.

[Daikos]

Occam's razor says you need to have a chat with Mr. Loucifer and Mr. Umbrae. And I say correlation is not causation.

[ooc]

I have to say I very very rarely agree with RandomInterrupt but he speaks the absolute truth here. Dilber has listed three items and two out of those three are quite far fetched compared to the third.

Keylogger: Yes, there is malware that takes screen captures but the idea that someone tricked Loucifer into becoming infected by such malware and then took the time to search through all of the logged keys and screen captures is ludicrous. The amount of logged keys would be massive and the screen captures would be so numerous that it would take a very lucky individual to find the exact screen capture that has this conversation. Screen capturing trojans and malware take pictures every X interval. In order for this log to have been captured, said infection would have had to take a picture at the exact moment when the conversation was occurring. I'd say that the probability of that is extremely low.

Corrupt IRCops: Is it possible? Yes. I can't say that I'm very up to date with the workings of the Coldfront network but I'd have to assume that IRCops who work, if they were corrupt and monitoring conversations, would take a log of something much juicier then what we have in this thread.

That leaves the !@#$%* option, which is exponentially more probable then these other two. I'd say that RandomInterrupt hit it square on the nose and that your government should be reminded of some basic security measures like not posting logs into areas that are easily found through Google searches.

[/ooc]

EDIT: Added OOC tag

Edited November 29, 2009 by Daikos