Vilien Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Call me naive but I don't think it is the norm and portraying it as such will only give people the idea that it is an acceptable means of operating on Planet Bob. It isn't and it shouldn't be. I know alliances do spy but to say that the majority of the world does it leads me to believe that you must hang out with some fairly immoral fellows. Operating a spy program certainly isn't the norm, but sharing and passing privileged information is. Spying is a tool, like diplomacy or war, to meet an end. It is not immoral in and of itself. Anti-spying sentiment is mainly a communal more that doesn't have much actual substance behind it other than people really don't like being spied on. For better or worse, it happens quite frequently, and a number of the alliances that helped to create the "spying as a casus belli" norm are the ones who used spying to their own advantage the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrotskysRevenge Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Given that neither Loucifer nor Umbrae shared those logs with anyone, and are both savvy enough not to use !@#$%* or anything like it, it points to illegal means being used to get those logs. I would hope that NSO does not support anything that crosses the line in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Given that neither Loucifer nor Umbrae shared those logs with anyone, and are both savvy enough not to use !@#$%* or anything like it, it points to illegal means being used to get those logs. I would hope that NSO does not support anything that crosses the line in that way. Do you have better prove than Loucifer or Umbrae words saying that they didn't shared this logs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Given that neither Loucifer nor Umbrae shared those logs with anyone, and are both savvy enough not to use !@#$%* or anything like it, it points to illegal means being used to get those logs. I would hope that NSO does not support anything that crosses the line in that way. Or that Loucifer or Umbrae are lying/that it actually is on !@#$%*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEraser Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Given that neither Loucifer nor Umbrae shared those logs with anyone, and are both savvy enough not to use !@#$%* or anything like it, it points to illegal means being used to get those logs. I would hope that NSO does not support anything that crosses the line in that way. thats speculative at best. If you want to make claims that it was done illegally, this isn't the place to do it. it seems to me though that you're trying to play the victim card again and don't really care about the legality at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asriel Belacqua Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 *Any* other alliance, no. More than people realize, yep. Even the first Browncoats did it. Bet people didn't see that coming! ZING! And, considering I know who supported it when that was happening, I can almost bet I know 100 other alliances that do. Not all alliances do, but like CH says here, a very significant number do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) One thing I always liked about being in MK government and MK in general was that even though people occasionally disagreed on stuff, it rarely descended into personal rivalries and people leaving or threatening to leave. My 5 months in GPA had more personal drama and people leaving after bitter disagreements that became personal than 21 months in MK. It sounds like NPO is more like GPA was while I was in it. OOC: the key-logging attack sounds like BS, key-logging would only catch one side of the conversation. Edited November 28, 2009 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 The Lonely Man. for a 70 day old nation, you seem to know quite a lot, and act like you have a couple of grudges (going off this post, and some of your other posts). I'm a bit curious why. Something else interesting that I noticed after reading these logs, and doing a small google search. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=pastebi...b22d27f49a5e7dd It seems that this !@#$%* site has quite a few internal logs from quite a few alliances, which concerns me a bit. I'm not sure how exactly the site actually works, but I'd be careful if I was leading any large alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Given that neither Loucifer nor Umbrae shared those logs with anyone, and are both savvy enough not to use !@#$%* or anything like it, it points to illegal means being used to get those logs. I would hope that NSO does not support anything that crosses the line in that way. If the NPO has evidence of illegal activities by one of my members then I would like to see it. Otherwise such statements mean little to me. The NSO does not condone illegal activities. I find being placed on the spot over it publicly to be a bit offputting. It isn't like he deleted a privately owned database and was made an IO or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empirica Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Given that neither Loucifer nor Umbrae shared those logs with anyone, and are both savvy enough not to use !@#$%* or anything like it, it points to illegal means being used to get those logs. I would hope that NSO does not support anything that crosses the line in that way. No offense to yourself, Loucifer, or Umbrae.. but if all you have is hearsay that those 2 didn't share the logs anywhere public or private, you can color me unconvinced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 OOC: the key-logging attack sounds like BS, key-logging would only catch one side of the conversation. OCC: Not saying that what happenend, but there are some key-loggers that take screen shots in regular amount fo time too. So it's not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homura Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) The Lonely Man. for a 70 day old nation, you seem to know quite a lot, and act like you have a couple of grudges (going off this post, and some of your other posts). I'm a bit curious why.Something else interesting that I noticed after reading these logs, and doing a small google search. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=pastebi...b22d27f49a5e7dd It seems that this !@#$%* site has quite a few internal logs from quite a few alliances, which concerns me a bit. I'm not sure how exactly the site actually works, but I'd be careful if I was leading any large alliance. Oh look, one of the first hits is internal Superfriends logs from...today, talking about attacking Frostbite. Edit: or Citadel. Either way they're talking about attacking someone http://!@#$%*.com/f30f2fd8f Edited November 28, 2009 by Katsumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 The hearsay of pathological liars no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Call me naive but I don't think it is the norm and portraying it as such will only give people the idea that it is an acceptable means of operating on Planet Bob. It isn't and it shouldn't be. I know alliances do spy but to say that the majority of the world does it leads me to believe that you must hang out with some fairly immoral fellows.EDIT: Inventing words isn't cool. I think you are using the narrow definition that defines spying as creating fake forums accounts and gathering as much as possible from the inside as a common member. In reality 'spying' is better defined as 'intelligence operations' and it includes a much broader variety of techniques. Do the majority of alliances spy? Probably not. Most aren't large enough, sophisticated enough, to do much more than talk to friends of friends of other alliances. But as I say, not everyone is as innocent as they claim to be on this subject. They are also smart enough not to get caught. As for any moral outrage about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President Obama Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Oh look, one of the first hits is internal Superfriends logs from...today, talking about attacking Frostbite.http://!@#$%*.com/f30f2fd8f Just because logs were posted today doesn't mean that they occurred the same time they were posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empirica Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Oh look, one of the first hits is internal Superfriends logs from...today, talking about attacking Frostbite.http://!@#$%*.com/f30f2fd8f I am going to assume that these logs were posted today, not that the conversation was necessarily today. Though I could of course be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Oh look, one of the first hits is internal Superfriends logs from...today, talking about attacking Frostbite.http://!@#$%*.com/f30f2fd8f I don't think that conversation took place today, by looking at the details of the conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 The logs are pretty old and leaked once before. My guess is someone saw this topic was up and decided to post them again, whatever though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) Posted by Operation Over the TOP on Sat 28 Nov 11:39 http://!@#$%*.com/f30f2fd8f Just find out who 'Operation Over the TOP' is...and yeah, that one clearly has been dumped on !@#$%* today. Edited November 28, 2009 by ChairmanHal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steodonn Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Especially considering they were grabbed with a Keylogger Prove it ?. These logs were on !@#$%* earlier so security isn't as tight as you think. The logs were set to expire so I don't think who ever posted them intended form them to make it to the OWF. I would be willing to bet that The lonely man found them on !@#$%*. I have found some fun stuff on !@#$%* in the last few mins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Posted by Operation Over the TOP on Sat 28 Nov 11:39http://!@#$%*.com/f30f2fd8f Just find out who 'Operation Over the TOP' is...and yeah, that one clearly has been dumped on !@#$%* today. That log has been passed around for a while now. Still makes me giggle every time I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retto Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Do you have better prove than Loucifer or Umbrae words saying that they didn't shared this logs? Does The Lonely Man have any proof actually suggesting he actually got it from a "friend"? Its a double edge sword. I'd trust the word of people well known in the community rather then some angry NPO reroll reject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Does The Lonely Man have any proof actually suggesting he actually got it from a "friend"? Its a double edge sword. I'd trust the word of people well known in the community rather then some angry NPO reroll reject. I think you already heard something like "innocent until proven otherwise". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Un4Gvn1 Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 The Lonely Man. for a 70 day old nation, you seem to know quite a lot, and act like you have a couple of grudges (going off this post, and some of your other posts). I'm a bit curious why.Something else interesting that I noticed after reading these logs, and doing a small google search. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=pastebi...b22d27f49a5e7dd It seems that this !@#$%* site has quite a few internal logs from quite a few alliances, which concerns me a bit. I'm not sure how exactly the site actually works, but I'd be careful if I was leading any large alliance. Today has been the most interesting on OWF in ages. It is too much to hope that all conversations would be posted directly here, but it sure would increase the interest level of the 'average Joe's' on the planet and might stem the tide of nations leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted November 28, 2009 Report Share Posted November 28, 2009 Does The Lonely Man have any proof actually suggesting he actually got it from a "friend"? Its a double edge sword. I'd trust the word of people well known in the community rather then some angry NPO reroll reject. My my, this statement isn't very diplomatic of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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