Tabloid Tribune #152 | Now Externally Focused!

[shahenshah]

Good read, should publish more often.

[Cyphon88]

Sir Paul, you continue to be one of Pacifica's greatest assets. A great piece of work.

[Weirdgus]

Also having to deal with small rogues and the like is why the TPF terms were written in a way that allowed TPF to deal with them themselves if they were able. Saves everyone the hassle.

I do not see how this has any bearing on the terms we are facing. We most certainly cannot declare war on rogues for protection.

[Azaghul]

I do not see how this has any bearing on the terms we are facing. We most certainly cannot declare war on rogues for protection.

It's more of a suggestion for future wars when people write terms.

[Augustus Autumn]

Singing, multiple viewpoints, people getting bent in the discussion - outstanding work. I look forward to future issues as always.

[Weirdgus]

It's more of a suggestion for future wars when people write terms.

So would you agree that, besides the 6 nations under 1k NS someone posted earlier, there still remain some 75 odd NPO nations that came under attack during this signed agreement, which were denied the protection rights as they were granted per the document signed on July the 19th?

[Denial]

Laughing at Sparta for being above money, probability not the smartest thing you have done, but it wouldn't be a 1st time either.

Wait, wait. You're criticising Sparta for not extracing reparations from your alliance?

[Zeta Defender]

Wait, wait. You're criticising Sparta for not extracing reparations from your alliance?

No, I'm laughing at KDII for trying to laugh at Sparta for doing something very honorable. I should have worded the 1st part of my sentence before better to imply that KDII laughing at an honorable act would not bode well in the future.

[Denial]

No, I'm laughing at KDII for trying to laugh at Sparta for doing something very honorable. I should have worded the 1st part of my sentence before better to imply that KDII laughing at an honorable act would not bode well in the future.

Nevermind, my apologies. I misread your previous post.

All is well

[Azaghul]

So would you agree that, besides the 6 nations under 1k NS someone posted earlier, there still remain some 75 odd NPO nations that came under attack during this signed agreement, which were denied the protection rights as they were granted per the document signed on July the 19th?

It's probably more than that under 1K NS, that list was just of those few posted by NPO to the forum for coordinating all this. I've been involved with reparations so I have access to those channels and forums, and this is the first I've heard anything about NPO being unhappy with the coverage. If you want to fix that problem, trying to make propaganda hay out of it like in the OP is probably not the best way of going about bringing up your concerns.

I imagine the problem is that most of the involved alliances aren't very active in those channels, and it can be very difficult to find low enough NS nations to deal with most rogues.

[Weirdgus]

It's probably more than that under 1K NS, that list was just of those few posted by NPO to the forum for coordinating all this. I've been involved with reparations so I have access to those channels and forums, and this is the first I've heard anything about NPO being unhappy with the coverage. If you want to fix that problem, trying to make propaganda hay out of it like in the OP is probably not the best way of going about bringing up your concerns.

I imagine the problem is that most of the involved alliances aren't very active in those channels, and it can be very difficult to find low enough NS nations to deal with most rogues.

So, it's wrong to talk about this matter even though you admit that otherwise it's very hard to get the information through the proper channels? Wouldn't it make sense that a mention of this issue would help in resolving it in the future?

Or do you think that a close minded "don't ask, don't tell" attitude would be more beneficial towards achieving this goal?

[shahenshah]

How much damage did Sparta take score-wise in the last war?

The way rep system was designed for this has no effect on the person paying the reps whether one alliance chooses to take reps or not...I might be wrong here tho.

[Azaghul]

So, it's wrong to talk about this matter even though you admit that otherwise it's very hard to get the information through the proper channels? Wouldn't it make sense that a mention of this issue would help in resolving it in the future?

Or do you think that a close minded "don't ask, don't tell" attitude would be more beneficial towards achieving this goal?

There is a private forum y'all have access to for the purpose of communication about reps and terms that you could post about it in and haven't said a word about it except to post lists of nations that have attacked your nations.

[Jasmines Jewels]

There are plenty of NPO nations with enough infrastructure to send out aid that aren't doing so for that to be a valid complaint. Last I checked, the aid slot usage of nations at 3999 infra+, for reps or internal aid, was around 40%. You could even bust out the old aid chains if you wanted to give all your guys harbor money.

If you would red the section you quoted out of the OP, it is stating that we are not able to send money to Red Dawn signatory nations in order to fund a harbor for them. It does not state that we are not able to send money to our own nations.

There is a private forum y'all have access to for the purpose of communication about reps and terms that you could post about it in and haven't said a word about it except to post lists of nations that have attacked your nations.

Partial continuation of the other post I quoted for here. I applaud you for realizing there has been a hiccup which was brought on by one member stepping down and another having to take over the reigns. You are correct, there is a forum there and I have been catching up on all the posts but so far it seems that many of those who share rep responsibility in the Karma alliances do not frequent it. My attempts to speak with those who handle finances have been very laborious. There are 13 of them and 1 of me. Apologies that I can not be more like superwoman or someone who can summon everyone to be online as soon as I need them so that everything runs absolutely perfect.

As far as the OP, really enjoyed having parts written by others. Definitely saw a couple enjoyable and humorous thoughts.

[Azaghul]

If you would red the section you quoted out of the OP, it is stating that we are not able to send money to Red Dawn signatory nations in order to fund a harbor for them. It does not state that we are not able to send money to our own nations.

Meanwhile, Red Dawn signatories are left to stew with NPO; 33% of Pacifican nations—the nations we need to strengthen ourselves and our alliances—have no harbor. Karma refuses to allow even $200,000 one-to-one transactions to facilitate trade between Red Dawn and NPO. As NPO is retarded, so are those who are to be the hedge against a resurgence of unilateral Red control, more than any terms regarding NPO doctrine

Partial continuation of the other post I quoted for here. I applaud you for realizing there has been a hiccup which was brought on by one member stepping down and another having to take over the reigns. You are correct, there is a forum there and I have been catching up on all the posts but so far it seems that many of those who share rep responsibility in the Karma alliances do not frequent it. My attempts to speak with those who handle finances have been very laborious. There are 13 of them and 1 of me. Apologies that I can not be more like superwoman or someone who can summon everyone to be online as soon as I need them so that everything runs absolutely perfect.

As far as the OP, really enjoyed having parts written by others. Definitely saw a couple enjoyable and humorous thoughts.

It sounds like y'all need to share the labor around, if you have only one person to deal with all communications with Karma about both rogues and reps.

Edit: That all being said, they should let you deal with rogues yourselves if they aren't organized enough to do so. Unfortunately it is precedent to not give surrendered alliances much leniency in that respect.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Azaghul

[Schattenmann]

It sounds like y'all need to share the labor around, if you have only one person to deal with all communications with Karma about both rogues and reps.

Edit: That all being said, they should let you deal with rogues yourselves if they aren't organized enough to do so. Unfortunately it is precedent to not give surrendered alliances much leniency in that respect.

Not to be flip, but really what does it matter how many people NPO has if most of the people they're supposed to contact don't bother to take responsibility for their end of the Instrument of Surrender and frequent the surrender forum?

Edit for your edit: Exactly. But when you've got the protectors attacking terms violators without giving NPO a heads-up, before long you see where it would end up: NPO defending a member from a Karma quickdraw => "ZOMG NPO IS REDECLARING" and an AA-wide retaliation.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Schattenmann

[kevin32891]

Great read as always Sir Paul.

[Azaghul]

Not to be flip, but really what does it matter how many people NPO has if most of the people they're supposed to contact don't bother to take responsibility for their end of the Instrument of Surrender and frequent the surrender forum?

Have a team of people talking to people on IRC and PMing them. Post on the forum to see how many are checking it, some may lurk and just not post.

Edit for your edit: Exactly. But when you've got the protectors attacking terms violators without giving NPO a heads-up, before long you see where it would end up: NPO defending a member from a Karma quickdraw.

It should usually be pretty easy to figure out, unless the rogue is coming from one of the alliances they surrendered to.

That's the kind of thing they should try to work out in private, with some give and take. Not making a serious effort to do so privately and just publicly complaining about it doesn't really help their case.

[SirWilliam]

So would you agree that, besides the 6 nations under 1k NS someone posted earlier, there still remain some 75 odd NPO nations that came under attack during this signed agreement, which were denied the protection rights as they were granted per the document signed on July the 19th?

If the small sample of nations that was posted earlier is indicative of the larger grouping of nations that have raided non-ghosting NPO nations, then the majority of them have been too small to be adequately militarily retaliated against.

Ragashingo though had a reasonable suggestion earlier as to an economic substitute for military intervention, being the dropping of aid packets. Perhaps it's one that could be looked into (unless I'm mistaken I don't believe internal monetary aid is forbidden by terms). Regardless, expecting anyone to have active, capable, reliable nations at 0-500 or so NS is a bit unrealistic.

[Schattenmann]

Have a team of people talking to people on IRC and PMing them. Post on the forum to see how many are checking it, some may lurk and just not post.

It should usually be pretty easy to figure out, unless the rogue is coming from one of the alliances they surrendered to.

That's the kind of thing they should try to work out in private, with some give and take. Not making a serious effort to do so privately and just publicly complaining about it doesn't really help their case.

Is that what we all said when NPO came knocking at FAN's door for terms violations? "FAN should've been better communicators?" It's not how I responded, because that's crap. Karma continually forces me to look like some hypocritical seen-the-light NPO sympathizer by doing the same !@#$ I went nuts about two years ago and it pisses me off to no end.

[Kzoppistan]

Excellent work by Sir Paul, Schattenmann, Hawk, and Ragashingo.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Kzoppistan

[TypoNinja]

If you want to fix that problem, trying to make propaganda hay out of it like in the OP is probably not the best way of going about bringing up your concerns.

This, I'm on IRC literally 24/7 (with a bot to take messages when I'm asleep/away) Nobody ever contacted me about neglected rogues, in fact, the only contact I've gotten from NPO is setting up their new ambassador something like 2 months ago. When you say nothing for months and then pull a propaganda stunt, we don't feel sorry for your plight, we become inclined to let you stew. While you think its hilarious to tweak our noses, you've forgotten that its your membership that will suffer for it.

I imagine the problem is that most of the involved alliances aren't very active in those channels, and it can be very difficult to find low enough NS nations to deal with most rogues.

I have more than enough forums and IRC channels to watch as part of my duties to my own alliance, If NPO does not care enough to actually approach people to get rogues covered, I don't care enough to defend them, nor do I care enough to go looking for surprise twitter feeds.

We WILL uphold our end of the instrument of surrender, and have done so admirably, we have even went to war once over it, but the answer from Pacifica for that is to act like children in public. I'd like to say I'm disappointed by the conduct, but alas, its exactly the kind of thing I've come to expect.

[Trinite]

Is that what we all said when NPO came knocking at FAN's door for terms violations? "FAN should've been better communicators?" It's not how I responded, because that's crap. Karma continually forces me to look like some hypocritical seen-the-light NPO sympathizer by doing the same !@#$ I went nuts about two years ago and it pisses me off to no end.

Are we FAN in that? Where is Karma knocking on anyone's door about terms violations? NPO is the one complaining here. There's quite a big difference between, "you should communicate better if you want us to take care of your problem instead of complaining on the owf" and "you should communicate better or we'll roll you... again." Azaghul is just giving them pointers on how to get their problem solved.

Edit: Oh yeah, I again love the song Sir Paul. Ain't no propaganda like musical propaganda.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Trinite

[Drostan]

Is that what we all said when NPO came knocking at FAN's door for terms violations? "FAN should've been better communicators?" It's not how I responded, because that's crap. Karma continually forces me to look like some hypocritical seen-the-light NPO sympathizer by doing the same !@#$ I went nuts about two years ago and it pisses me off to no end.

When Karma redeclares on Pacifica, we'll examine this comparison more seriously.

[Azaghul]

Is that what we all said when NPO came knocking at FAN's door for terms violations? "FAN should've been better communicators?" It's not how I responded, because that's crap. Karma continually forces me to look like some hypocritical seen-the-light NPO sympathizer by doing the same !@#$ I went nuts about two years ago and it pisses me off to no end.

Comparing dealing with a few terms violations by declaring war on individuals vs. attacking a whole alliance is hardly the same. Looking at NPO's wars I see zero wars having to do with terms violations.