Stumpy Jung Il Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Just a quick question to everyone defending Athens, If I had my alliance back and raided you all with several members... would you call that a mistake? I would call it being an idiot. Same applies here, imagine if rolls would have been reversed and you all would have been treated like this, would you be shouting "Mistake" then? I think not. You would have been ready to kill Athens on the spot... Not that I care how this goes seeing as I'm loyal to my alliance and know which side I'll be on if things go down but, I think Athens should get more than just a tap on the hand for this. Don't act like you know whats going on behind the scenes between Athens and it's allies. We aren't defending them cause they are right and we aren't supporting their decision. Actually, just learn to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emporor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Don't act like you know whats going on behind the scenes between Athens and it's allies. We aren't defending them cause they are right and we aren't supporting their decision. Actually, just learn to read. I did read... What I saw was the usual BS political responses. "We know we're wrong but, still we're going to stick with our decision... If we back down now, We'll look like even larger idiots." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall Jaxon Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Yes they $%&@ed up, but not because they declared war on Ni. Athens $%&@ed up because they raided a functioning alliance, even if they are complete imbeciles at foreign affairs. You are missing the whole point of the very same moral outrage you are contributing to, in a silly attempt to seem special by citing different reasons for your discontent. Argument whatever you will, you're throwing rocks just like everybody else is. I fail to see how that makes you any cooler. I'm sorry, if I had known you were going to be a condescending little prick, I would never have addressed your cookie-cutter argument. I have stated more times than I wish to count that my issue with Athens in this situation, and MK for that matter, is that they refuse to take accountability for their aggressive war by making tech raiding a new type of war. It's not a new type of war; it's just war for material reasons rather than political ones. However, you put these words in my mouth, saying I'm somehow citing "moral outrage," because without classifying my argument as "with everyone else," your little cookie-cutter "lol it's the same as raiding unaligned, except they're in alliances!" bit becomes a red herring. I'll restate my argument, nice and slow for you: I don't give a !@#$ about the morality of this situation, but cowardice is an entirely different matter. If you go off and kick puppies for fun, that's none of my business, but don't try to come up to me and say you're not kicking the damn puppies; I can clearly see the puppies limping away from your house. However, I'll twist your words and create a red herring question, which I'll continue to illogically use whenever you try to discuss any more on this matter with me, just you you can experience the pure annoyance: Athens $%&@ed up because they raided a functioning alliance, Well, what's an alliance? Isn't a 3-man alliance "functioning?" Are you saying that raiding on anyone with an alliance affiliation should be consisdered immoral? Edited November 16, 2009 by Stonewall Jaxon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreddieMercury Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Been here, done that. Yeah, totally erases the fact I posted something substantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I did read... What I saw was the usual BS political responses. "We know we're wrong but, still we're going to stick with our decision... If we back down now, We'll look like even larger idiots." Thats not what we said at all. We said, "Athens was !@#$@#$ stupid but we have a treaty that is legally binding. Also, we don't abandon our friends." It had nothing to do with us looking like idiots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emporor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thats not what we said at all. We said, "Athens was !@#$@#$ stupid but we have a treaty that is legally binding. Also, we don't abandon our friends." It had nothing to do with us looking like idiots. Yes, thats always nice... Using a treaty as an excuse. Treaties are easily terminated. As for sticking with friends, Its like saying, "You jumped off the building and broke your neck, so I'll follow." I guess that makes perfect sense. lol. Another perfect BS political response... Keep going you're on a roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm sorry, if I had known you were going to be a condescending little prick, I would never have addressed your cookie-cutter argument. I have stated more times than I wish to count that my issue with Athens in this situation, and MK for that matter, is that they refuse to take accountability for their aggressive war by making tech raiding a new type of war. It's not a new type of war; it's just war for material reasons rather than political ones. However, you put these words in my mouth, saying I'm somehow citing "moral outrage," because without classifying my argument as "with everyone else," your little cookie-cutter "lol it's the same as raiding unaligned, except they're in alliances!" bit becomes a red herring. I'll restate my argument, nice and slow for you: I don't give a !@#$ about the morality of this situation, but cowardice is an entirely different matter. If you go off and kick puppies for fun, that's none of my business, but don't try to come up to me and say you're not kicking the damn puppies; I can clearly see the puppies limping away from your house. However, I'll twist your words and create a red herring question, which I'll continue to illogically use whenever you try to discuss any more on this matter with me, just you you can experience the pure annoyance: Well, what's an alliance? Isn't a 3-man alliance "functioning?" Are you saying that raiding on anyone with an alliance affiliation should be consisdered immoral? Walls of inane banter such as these can only be countered by equally inane banter (although Ill spare everyone the wall). I shall quote the great Big Boi of Outkast for you. In my chair As I sit back smilin from ear to ear With a fist full of your girlfriends hair Yes she'll blow one tonight For your sorrows How does that seem for ridiculous argument? Your move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormsend Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Point to me where Athens has reversed the damage to the Knights of Ni!. <- [OOC] One reason to not have punctuation your alliance name, makes the end of the sentence look weird. Maybe the war reason should have been a ridiculous alliance name. You don't have to take my word for it, but there is work being done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, thats always nice... Using a treaty as an excuse. Treaties are easily terminated. As for sticking with friends, Its like saying, "You jumped off the building and broke your neck, so I'll follow." I guess that makes perfect sense. lol. Another perfect BS political response... Keep going you're on a roll. Yeah man, abandoning allies is something C&G is known for. You are a joke and your argument is nonexistent. You have no actual response to the fact that we aren't abandoning Athens because they are our long time friends and treaty partners and they made a mistake. Matter of fact, you are just repeating yourself and the phrase "BS political excuse." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, thats always nice... Using a treaty as an excuse. Treaties are easily terminated. As for sticking with friends, Its like saying, "You jumped off the building and broke your neck, so I'll follow." I guess that makes perfect sense. lol. Another perfect BS political response... Keep going you're on a roll. You should stop posting now, because your going nowhere with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Yes, thats always nice... Using a treaty as an excuse. Treaties are easily terminated. As for sticking with friends, Its like saying, "You jumped off the building and broke your neck, so I'll follow." I guess that makes perfect sense. lol. Another perfect BS political response... Keep going you're on a roll. Because when my friend f's up, I stop being his friend immediately. Nope, I don't try and help him fix his mistakes. I just throw that !@#$ to the wind because he f'd up and I dont want to be breaking my neck despite the fact that this friend threw his head on the chopping block for me in times past. Keep going, you're looking like a jerk. Edited November 16, 2009 by tamerlane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormsend Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, thats always nice... Using a treaty as an excuse. Treaties are easily terminated. As for sticking with friends, Its like saying, "You jumped off the building and broke your neck, so I'll follow." I guess that makes perfect sense. lol. Another perfect BS political response... Keep going you're on a roll. Wait. "Treaties are easily terminated?" I can count on you when times are tough, can't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 nice ad hominem MT. seriously makes your argument strong. as for comparison, i do recall that the only way MK, Athens, and many others saw NPO as being held accountable for their actions was by destroying them. Yet, MK stated that that cannot happen with Athens without incurring the wrath of MK. so please tell me how Athens and FoB is being held responsible for their actions in the same way MK held NPO accountable for their actions? also, Londo apologized for many actions he did. since he is gov in Athens, that means that Athens are liable for all those actions as MK stated that NPO was accountable for the actions of their gov. so please, do not call me a moron, when in fact this situation could easily be compared to the myriad of crap that NPO/Heg did. also, ebil actions are ebil regardless of how much worse another action is considered. the fact that ya'll seem to be incapable of accepting that logic only shows how similar to NPO ya'll becoming. NPO could never recognize that what they did was ebil either remember? The Karma war wasn't just about making NPO/Hegemony accountable for their past actions, that was a motivation for many but removing an aggressive threat to us was the primary reason most of us fought. Your logic lacks any sense of proportionality. Just because someone committing robbery for the first time doesn't gets easier treatment than someone who has committed assault a half dozen times doesn't mean that they both aren't being treated fairly. The response has to fit the crime and the threat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emporor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yeah man, abandoning allies is something C&G is known for. You are a joke and your argument is nonexistent. You have no actual response to the fact that we aren't abandoning Athens because they are our long time friends and treaty partners and they made a mistake. Matter of fact, you are just repeating yourself and the phrase "BS political excuse." There you go, Try to switch the topic off onto something else, then trying to use insults as a way to avoid the fact that I am right. Now you are just acting like a cry baby. "C&G abandons their allies... I think I should run to this corner and pout... I know I'm an idiot but, I can't let the world know... Why do you keep repeating that phrase, I know I'm full of !@#$ but you don't have to tell everyone..." I say man up and take responsibility for your stupidity. You know If you hadn't tried to act all hard when I pointed out one good fact to you and asked one question, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe next time you should think before you speak? Just a hint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You know If you hadn't tried to act all hard when I pointed out one good fact to you and asked one question, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe next time you should think before you speak? Just a hint. Where was this "one good fact", your heinous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormsend Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 1. There you go, Try to switch the topic off onto something else, then trying to use insults as a way to avoid the fact that I am right. Now you are just acting like a cry baby.2. "C&G abandons their allies... I think I should run to this corner and pout... I know I'm an idiot but, I can't let the world know... Why do you keep repeating that phrase, I know I'm full of !@#$ but you don't have to tell everyone..." 3. I say man up and take responsibility for your stupidity. You know If you hadn't tried to act all hard when I pointed out one good fact to you and asked one question, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe next time you should think before you speak? Just a hint. 1. I believe he was proposing a counter-argument. A debate does, contrary to popular belief, have more than one side. 2. This makes no sense. 3. Responsibility was taken. The rest of your post is senseless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes, thats always nice... Using a treaty as an excuse. Treaties are easily terminated. As for sticking with friends, Its like saying, "You jumped off the building and broke your neck, so I'll follow." I guess that makes perfect sense. lol. Another perfect BS political response... Keep going you're on a roll. I'd rather the entirety of C&G be ZI'd and disbanded than turn into a bunch of fair-weather friends like you seem to be. Is this issue something we want to fight anyone over? Of course not. But if someone is gonna attack Athens over this, I speak for myself and many others in saying that we'll gladly fight to the last man to defend them. We've faced impossible odds before and we're willing to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) ...then trying to use insults as a way to avoid the fact that I am right. Now you are just acting like a cry baby. Do you realize that you just did exactly what you were condemning in the previous sentence? I don't think you do but I thought I'd point it out. As for you, from the way you act it sounds like a treaty with you is worth dick since you'd abandon any ally that ever made a mistake. I hope you no sway in your alliance whatsoever. Edited November 16, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emporor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Where was this "one good fact", your heinous? If rolls would have been reversed and someone mass raided one of the alliances sticking by Athens, You would all be for owning them... If you say otherwise, then you are simply lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 You don't have to take my word for it, but there is work being done. 2 payments from Athens, 1 from FoB as of this moment...please Athens/FOB don't break down the aid trains sending aid so fast, you'll break my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) If rolls would have been reversed and someone mass raided one of the alliances sticking by Athens, You would all be for owning them... If you say otherwise, then you are simply lying. Of course, because we have an MDAP with most the alliances sticking by Athens. They are our MDAP partners and we will ride and die together. You sure got us all there with your newfangled logic and stuff! Edited November 16, 2009 by tamerlane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emporor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do you realize that you just did exactly what you were condemning in the previous sentence? I don't think you do but I thought I'd point it out. As for you, from the way you act it sounds like a treaty with you is worth dick since you'd abandon any ally that ever made a mistake. I hope you no sway in your alliance whatsoever. "Why do you keep bullying me... I'm gonna cry some more." A mistake isnt launching a mass raid on someone then saying, "oh, I didn't mean to do that. I'll just say sorry and that will make everything ok, because I've got large friends" I mean thats basically what just happened. Then when I point it out, You have to go get all mad and !@#$. Fact still remains if someone did that to, for the sake of arguement, MK, you would be all for war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) "Why do you keep bullying me... I'm gonna cry some more." A mistake isnt launching a mass raid on someone then saying, "oh, I didn't mean to do that. I'll just say sorry and that will make everything ok, because I've got large friends" I mean thats basically what just happened. Then when I point it out, You have to go get all mad and !@#$. Fact still remains if someone did that to, for the sake of arguement, MK, you would be all for war. Now this would be cool if you were introducing something new and revolutionary but you are just another part of the crowd who has, for some time now, been repeating the same thing endlessly without taking into consideration the position or efforts we have put into this situation. So please, just do everyone a favor and be quiet. you offer nothing new to this thread that hasnt been repeated at least 30 times already. Edited November 16, 2009 by tamerlane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emporor Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Of course, because we have an MDAP with most the alliances sticking by Athens. They are our MDAP partners and we will ride and die together. You sure got us all there with your newfangled logic and stuff! Nice.. You almost sounded smart. You further proved my point... but at least you know you're an idiot. Again going back to the, "You jumped so I will too..." Comment. Thats real brilliant. The point is if someone did this to MK you would be pissed and ready to crush them. You wouldn't be sitting here acting like its ok to mass raid another alliance and then make a lame $@! apology and get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Nice.. You almost sounded smart. You further proved my point... but at least you know you're an idiot. Again going back to the, "You jumped so I will too..." Comment. Thats real brilliant. The point is if someone did this to MK you would be pissed and ready to crush them. You wouldn't be sitting here acting like its ok to mass raid another alliance and then make a lame $@! apology and get away with it. No, I'd still be sitting here acting like convinced you're a horrible troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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