So, uh, Athens...

[shayde]

I request Lock

Why bother? The war against Athens is days away.

[Aurion]

The forums are built with dead horses piled on top of one another. Carry one with the beatin'!

It's more like necrophiliac bestiality than merely beating at this point.

[Eamon Valda]

I admit I am a bit late on this thread, but I would like to discuss this point of this thread.

"There is no difference between a ten man alliance and thirty-nine man alliance."

This is wrong. Firstly, what is the purpose of drawing the line at ten man alliances? Formally, it lays on the recognition of sovereignty we give to a 'true alliance'. If we simply recognised anyone with an AA, then we'd face many more diplomatic problems. To prevent people from simply switching AA and claiming the right to internal sovereignty and equal treatment, we draw the line of, again, what is a real alliance.

Thus, a 39 man alliance is a real alliance. A given alliance has the power to its own sovereignty and diplomatic relations. They have their own forums. Any collective attack on a sovereign alliance should be treated as war and no less. A tech raid is just that: a singular raid by a singular person on a person who is not within an alliance to extract their resources. You claim it is merely 39 individuals making their own attacks. Moreover, no honourable alliance would condone this type of action to another alliance (i.e.) consider if you had done this to Sparta or NpO). You purposely picked this alliance for its lack of diplomatic links (no #$%#).

I don't think it is wrong to have done it. That said, you guys should be more straight-up about it. You are just beating up a smaller alliance with no real ability to resist your actions. That alliance has sovereignty and diplomatic links and you ignored them to further you aims. Any ways, go on and continue the beatdown (assuming it's going on).

[Emperor Stranger]

I don't see how Athens tech raiding an alliance of any size is that concerning to you. Unless this is a protectorate of RIA.

It concerns me that Athens is willing to destroy another sovereign alliance to increase their wealth. It concerns me that my alliance could be next. It certainly concerns me that Athens, an alliance who fought to destroy the corruption blob we called the "NPO", is being hypocritical in that they will fight corruption only to gain PR, and fight to steal from other sovereign alliances the next day.

If you ask me, I have plenty to be concerned about. If they are willing to "tech raid" an alliance far large than mine, who's to say that my alliance won't be next?

Tech Raids - Killing alliances without technically warring them

Also lolatAthens for actually thinking people wouldnt see this.

I agree with this post so much.

[WernerHoffmann]

This is wrong. Firstly, what is the purpose of drawing the line at ten man alliances? Formally, it lays on the recognition of sovereignty we give to a 'true alliance'. If we simply recognised anyone with an AA, then we'd face many more diplomatic problems. To prevent people from simply switching AA and claiming the right to internal sovereignty and equal treatment, we draw the line of, again, what is a real alliance.

Erm, no. If an alliance went out of the way to make a charter, build forums, and create an IRC channel for themselves, then they're sovereign. Who are you or anyone else to declare them otherwise? As long as it's more than one person, then it should be looked on and treated like any other alliance out there.

[Emperor Stranger]

Erm, no. If an alliance went out of the way to make a charter, build forums, and create an IRC channel for themselves, then they're sovereign. Who are you or anyone else to declare them otherwise? As long as it's more than one person, then it should be looked on and treated like any other alliance out there.

Agreed. Wolf Empire has a protector, charter, IRC channel, forums, and eight very loyal and very active (in-game) members. Are we not sovereign just because we don't have 200 members? I tell you that we are sovereign, and we will fight to the death defending our sovereignty. And while we do not have a massive web of treaties to aid us, we still have Wolfpack and LBA (and soon possibly all of TSU) who will fight with us.

We may only have eight members, but I guarantee that my eight members will be far more effective than many other alliance's 200 members.

[Haflinger]

I thought I was done here but this seems to be a common misconception that needs to be cleared up. No allies of either Athens or FoB aside from a couple individuals knew anything about this before hand.

It doesn't matter, at least for C&G. C&G members are MADP partners of yours, and are therefore committed to support every aggressive war you undertake.

This is the problem with MADPs. You really need to have terrific communications in order to justify that level of trust.

[Daimos]

For me, this game entertainment value is not through it's nation building and wars. It's through it's forum.

This thread delivered. Thank you.

[Nizzle]

This was hilarious. I need to keep up on topics more often.

Freaking Athens.

[ddog241]

i cant believe this got to 68 pages

[Achilleus]

It concerns me that Athens is willing to destroy another sovereign alliance to increase their wealth. It concerns me that my alliance could be next. It certainly concerns me that Athens, an alliance who fought to destroy the corruption blob we called the "NPO", is being hypocritical in that they will fight corruption only to gain PR, and fight to steal from other sovereign alliances the next day.

If you ask me, I have plenty to be concerned about. If they are willing to "tech raid" an alliance far large than mine, who's to say that my alliance won't be next?

That depends. Is your leadership so dumb that they have failed to acquire a protecting alliance, just like the Knights of Ni? If so, then you deserve to be attacked four ways from Sunday (or however that goes ...); otherwise, people will stay away from you and not because of some silly self-righteous moralizing about tech raiding (or any other intelligent, self-advancing activity), but simply because they'll get beaten up.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Achilleus

[Dontasemebro]

That depends. Is your leadership so dumb that they have failed to acquire a protecting alliance, just like the Knights of Ni? If so, then you deserve to be attacked four ways from Sunday (or however that goes ...); otherwise, people will stay away from you and not because of some silly self-righteous moralizing about tech raiding (or any other intelligent, self-advancing activity), but simply because they'll get beaten up.

So everyone needs to be a vassal of a large enough alliance tangled into the MDP web? Don't make Karma pepsi.

[Heft]

That depends. Is your leadership so dumb that they have failed to acquire a protecting alliance, just like the Knights of Ni? If so, then you deserve to be attacked four ways from Sunday (or however that goes ...); otherwise, people will stay away from you and not because of some silly self-righteous moralizing about tech raiding (or any other intelligent, self-advancing activity), but simply because they'll get beaten up.

What's with all these terrible and just plain stupid ideas floating around lately?

[Achilleus]

So everyone needs to be a vassal of a large enough alliance tangled into the MDP web?

Obviously. Do what you need to do to survive and if you can't, you don't. I notice it's only people who don't watch out for themselves that start jumping on the "fair play" bandwagon. People who have taken care of themselves don't need to whine and beg for public sympathy.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Achilleus

[TypoNinja]

Obviously. Do what you need to do to survive and if you can't, you don't. I notice it's only people who don't watch out for themselves that start jumping on the "fair play" bandwagon. People who have taken care of themselves don't need to whine and beg for public sympathy.

Who else remembers the good old days when all you had to do to survive was mind your own business and small alliances simply existed until they grew big enough to sign a military treaty?

[Dontasemebro]

Obviously. Do what you need to do to survive and if you can't, you don't. I notice it's only people who don't watch out for themselves that start jumping on the "fair play" bandwagon. People who have taken care of themselves don't need to whine and beg for public sympathy.

Okay pepsi. Treaties are now a prerequisit for survival in this new, better karma world huh.

What about GPA? They lasted a very, VERY long time when they could have been majorly raided by two militaristic alliances. They only EVER got attacked due to evidence of their protecting an enemy of NPO. Also, a great deal of treaties were supposed to have protected every alliance since GOONS fell, but that didn't change the fact that they got rolled, not even NPpO.

This mindset of yours is for another world [ooc]CN:TE, let people play the game[/ooc] and if you enjoy bullying, we'll see how you sing if a bigger bloc crushes yours simply for tech. When you need the public sympathy I'm sure you'll be quite happy when the cavalry shows up in terms of whistleblowers. There's a reason big blocs aren't crushing little ones just "cuz they can."

[Bob Janova]

Obviously. Do what you need to do to survive and if you can't, you don't. I notice it's only people who don't watch out for themselves that start jumping on the "fair play" bandwagon. People who have taken care of themselves don't need to whine and beg for public sympathy.

It's sad to see the re-appearance of naked might-makes-right argument in international politics.

[Denial]

That depends. Is your leadership so dumb that they have failed to acquire a protecting alliance, just like the Knights of Ni? If so, then you deserve to be attacked four ways from Sunday (or however that goes ...); otherwise, people will stay away from you and not because of some silly self-righteous moralizing about tech raiding (or any other intelligent, self-advancing activity), but simply because they'll get beaten up.

This is not only an incredibly poor argument, but you have forced me to agree with Heft.

This just cannot stand )):

[Voytek]

I await the Athens/FoB tech raid on GPA with great anticipation.

[Achilleus]

What about GPA? They lasted a very, VERY long time when they could have been majorly raided by two militaristic alliances. They only EVER got attacked due to evidence of their protecting an enemy of NPO. . . .

No one is responsible for blind luck or for there being any lack of opportunists. Though you say "better days," I say "lucky breaks." If you don't do some basic things for your own self-preservation, you deserve what you get, up to and including another alliance handing you your Darwin Award on a silver platter.

I never thought I'd see the day when intelligent moves were ridiculed and reproached with -- oh, wait. . . . That happens every day on the forums!

This is not only an incredibly poor argument, but you have forced me to agree with Heft.

It's incredibly poor, but you can't say why? Interesting.

Edited November 20, 2009 by Achilleus

[Lord Rune]

That depends. Is your leadership so dumb that they have failed to acquire a protecting alliance, just like the Knights of Ni? If so, then you deserve to be attacked ...

Deserve to be attacked, for not having a treaty? Seriously?

[King Louis the II]

It is unbelievable that this subject is still being discussed....

anyway...it is a free planet......

[Rafael Nadal]

No one is responsible for blind luck or for there being any lack of opportunists. Though you say "better days," I say "lucky breaks." If you don't do some basic things for your own self-preservation, you deserve what you get, up to and including another alliance handing you your Darwin Award on a silver platter.

I never thought I'd see the day when intelligent moves were ridiculed and reproached with -- oh, wait. . . . That happens every day on the forums!

It's incredibly poor, but you can't say why? Interesting.

As the leader of one your closest allies, I'm going to ask you specifically to stop posting. Maybe, you haven't been around long enough, but we've been down your road before, and it wasn't so glorious as you think it sounds.

[kevin32891]

It is unbelievable that this subject is still being discussed....

anyway...it is a free planet......

Its still being discussed because some people haven't learned a dam thing.

[Denial]

It's incredibly poor, but you can't say why? Interesting.

I felt the posts above mine already elucidated the erroneous and distasteful nature of your argument. However, I can expand if those critiques were insufficient.