King Louis the II Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) so again it has resorted to "NPO DID WORSE AND ARE MOAR EBIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" argument? that in no way justifies what Athens did, nor does it prevent what they did from being bad. just because NPO did worse cannot be a justification for allowing crap like this to exist.... that is the mindset that i thought many fought against in the Karma war. to bad that it never lasts. i am vastly becoming ashamed of having supported the Karma war since it seems that many who fought for Karma were nothing but wannabes taking out the top alliances in order to conduct slightly less "ebil" actions than their predecessors. Sorry to interfere, but what I think Seth was saying was just that athens is NOT a mini-NpO, and the mistakes done by the two AAs were of different magnitude. I think people should calm down now. I am reading from athens/fob people threads saying that their action was a mistake. I guess we all should learn our lessons and move on. edit: grammar Edited November 15, 2009 by King Louis the II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 You just resorted to that, I didn't. I agree this was a stupid mistake, and one they will learn from based on their allies' responses even, but it was a lapse in judgment. That doesn't even compare to the intentional political moves of NPO, as i was attempting to explain in my previous post. actually you stated that what Athens did was not bad since it was not as bad as NPO. If Athens had the huge list of abuse and manipulation--of allies and of enemies--that NPO did when they attempted to apologize, then maybe this would seem credible to me. from this incident alone, we have seen Athens abuse several treaties simply by neglect of communication (something with which i hear NPO did often) when they "tech raided" KofN. i also remember NPO stating their actions would result in anything negative for their allies (gee, Londo said that as well). then there is the manipulation of the event/abuse that Athens did to TSI in that whole spy incident. gee, i think i am seeing a clear patter of Athens actions when compared to that of NPO.... Sorry to interfere, but what I think Seth was saying was just that athens is NOT a mini-NpO, and the mistakes done by the two AAs were of different magnitude. I think people should calm down now. I am reading from athens/fob people threads saying that their action was a mistake. I guess we all should learn our lessons and move on. edit: grammar and how many times did NPO say those same words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko_antoniou Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Please. Is this considered a "mistake" because the action was wrong or because of the backlash? My hunch is with the latter. it seems that many who fought for Karma were nothing but wannabes taking out the top alliances in order to conduct slightly less "ebil" actions than their predecessors Karma: it's a b***h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis the II Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Please.Is this considered a "mistake" because the action was wrong or because of the backlash? My hunch is with the latter. Karma: it's a b***h My opinion was because was wrong. By the way my AA do not allow us tech raids. But we also do not interfere in our allies business. In this particular case, my PERSONAL oppinion is that Athens/FoB made a mistake,. It was good that they recognized it. Period. I dont know if there will be reps or something. I think the anger was justified at the begining but not now. Unless an alliance want to use this a motive to pursuit their pollitical agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis the II Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 and how many times did NPO say those same words? I did not count...my math skills are not that great. I think a mistake was made. Since they recognized it I think anything now will be an unnecessary drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Please.Is this considered a "mistake" because the action was wrong or because of the backlash? My hunch is with the latter. It's considered a mistake because it put people the alliances cared about in a bad position. Athens and FoB are raiding alliances, they won't let morals get pushed onto their plates at dinner. However, they almost brought war to their allies and for that they are sorry. With foresight into this neither would have went through with it. Your definition of "wrong" on morals is entirely subjective and can not be universally applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litha Riddle Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 My opinion was because was wrong. By the way my AA do not allow us tech raids. But we also do not interfere in our allies business.In this particular case, my PERSONAL oppinion is that Athens/FoB made a mistake,. It was good that they recognized it. Period. I dont know if there will be reps or something. I think the anger was justified at the begining but not now. Unless an alliance want to use this a motive to pursuit their pollitical agenda. Well we have made mistakes and we are trying to make amends, yet its treated as PR or something sinister. Yet Athens makes a mistake and they get off with just an apology. So your past sins are only ever forgiven if you say sorry then? Its more important to use fancy words than to prove it with actions? Ok then, just so we are clear on this, an apology is all that is required for the worlds forgiveness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well we have made mistakes and we are trying to make amends, yet its treated as PR or something sinister. Yet Athens makes a mistake and they get off with just an apology.So your past sins are only ever forgiven if you say sorry then? Its more important to use fancy words than to prove it with actions? Ok then, just so we are clear on this, an apology is all that is required for the worlds forgiveness? The difference is that you have a long history of "mistakes" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I must say, I am extremely disappoint with FoB and Athens. I mean really, what the hell is wrong with you =/ Is your policy now "Do onto others as the Hegemony did onto you" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 The difference is that you have a long history of "mistakes" So now you think that Athens made a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilkenny Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 The difference is that you have a long history of "mistakes" Ok, you keep saying this, implying that Athens only made one mistake, this one. Yet Londo apologized for quite a few things that he and his alliance had done, none of which were this incident. Seems like a history to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neko_antoniou Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 It's considered a mistake because it put people the alliances cared about in a bad position. Athens and FoB are raiding alliances, they won't let morals get pushed onto their plates at dinner. However, they almost brought war to their allies and for that they are sorry. With foresight into this neither would have went through with it.Your definition of "wrong" on morals is entirely subjective and can not be universally applied. I'm calling BS on this one. If everyone had bought the "it's merely an alliance wide tech raid" line then it would be all rainbows and unicorns. Now we're supposed to believe that this so called alliance wide planned tech raid happened on a whim with absolutely no foresight or thought of the consequences? No one had any problem applying a universal moral of wrongness when the NPO would attack a smaller alliance. Sorry to bring this back around to the NPO but geez man, you guys flip more that John Kerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilleus Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Can I ask where the DoW is? http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.as...ights%20Of%20NI! "Tech raiding" a 40 man alliance? Really? Personally, I fail to see the problem. If an alliance is unprotected and they're there, well . . . kinda sucks for them, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilleus Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) . . . If everyone had bought the "it's merely an alliance wide tech raid" line then it would be all rainbows and unicorns. . . . No one had any problem applying a universal moral of wrongness when the NPO would attack a smaller alliance. Sorry to bring this back around to the NPO but geez man, you guys flip more that John Kerry. People say what is convenient at any given time. This goes for Pacifica as well as for any small alliance, be they raiders or pacifists. If it is convenient to use a certain incident that is objectionable in the eyes of the world for the purpose of advancing one's own cause, that's called "politics." Edit: excuse the double post, sil-vous plait. Edited November 16, 2009 by Achilleus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Personally, I fail to see the problem. If an alliance is unprotected and they're there, well . . . kinda sucks for them, doesn't it? I hope you don't speak for your alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Having been away for a while and only just now catching up on this; Athens, this was stupid. You guys are better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilleus Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I hope you don't speak for your alliance. No, I do not; but I find it interesting that you didn't respond to the point: what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asriel Belacqua Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 No, I do not; but I find it interesting that you didn't respond to the point: what's the problem? I think that the problem here is, they did have a treaty (that while M*A*S*H had no record of, technically wasn't cancelled), which would be putting your allies in bad spots. Also, that Londo back-pedelled faster than an olympic athlete trying to go for an outrageous goal of fastest backwards biker, and that Athens decried the same actions they partook of here with this "raid." Also the fact that many do not consider this a raid, but simply a war, that had no CB and also could have possibly put your allies in a bad spot. Basically the problem was/is, people disagree with this action in general, and Athens and FoB are like "we can do what we want, if you hate it you should do something about it" until gov't later came out and said "We're sorry, but you're all dishonourable for hating our raid." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 The horse is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asriel Belacqua Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 That it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilleus Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) The horse is dead. The forums are built with dead horses piled on top of one another. Carry one with the beatin'! Edited November 16, 2009 by Achilleus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 The horse is dead. I'm waiting for Londo to apologize for GW III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Paul Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thus ends Act II. Really, I can't compete... this was much more entertaining than my little concert. I look forward to Act III. This is the day that you have made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feuersturm Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Oh man, this thread is just too ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eztoindajar Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 I request Lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts