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"Botha" mode and "Justininan"mode


Tahsir

Remove the modes?  

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I don't HAVE to recognize anyone's RP, and no matter the result of this post, I'm sticking with my plan to only recognize planned wars from people who aren't on my ignore list. I didn't come here for the lulz, I came here to RP politics. If people want to act like children, then they can do it away from me.

Part of Politics is the struggle against what you might perceive as ignorant, or wrong. Ignoring the problem isn't enhancing your experience of the political environment its avoiding it; and ceasing to play the game.

As for the subject at hand. If someone Rp's entirely by their stats, and does not deviate from the program set forth by botha, (such as junio and botha) then I think its fine if they ignore non CN wars. However that means ignoring all non-cn wars (that includes planned wars). It also means forgoing any modifiers, future technology, or anything faster than a RL time scale. Botha mode isn't about avoiding war, its about directly RPing as close to actual CN as possible.

That being said people who are simply refusing to recognize unplanned wars, or ignore the actions of others (because they just disagree, don't like them, or simply don't want to put out the risk) will find themselves being purged should their claims indeed be tested. The mod rulings haven't changed, and there is more than enough precedent to back up the doctrine that if you ignore a war you automatically lose unconditionally.

Edited by iamthey
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Part of Politics is the struggle against what you might perceive as ignorant, or wrong. Ignoring the problem isn't enhancing your experience of the political environment its avoiding it; and ceasing to play the game.

As for the subject at hand. If someone Rp's entirely by their stats, and does not deviate from the program set forth by botha, (such as junio and botha) then I think its fine if they ignore non CN wars. However that means ignoring all non-cn wars (that includes planned wars). It also means forgoing any modifiers, future technology, or anything faster than a RL time scale. Botha mode isn't about avoiding war, its about directly RPing as close to actual CN as possible.

That being said people who are simply refusing to recognize unplanned wars, or ignore the actions of others will find themselves being purged should their claims indeed be tested. The mod rulings haven't changed, and there is more than enough precedent to back up the doctrine that if you ignore a war you automatically lose unconditionally.

Well then go ahead and purge me, because there are people I don't recognize in any way, shape, or form. I will still RP, because I won't stop RPing here unless I'm banned from CN itself.

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Well then go ahead and purge me, because there are people I don't recognize in any way, shape, or form. I will still RP, because I won't stop RPing here unless I'm banned from CN itself.

I suppose we'll see what happens if or when the time comes then. *shrugs*

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I don’t understand why one group of players is allowed to be held to one standard while another isn’t. To my knowledge, Botha would, and has fought rp wars, but there was a some thought put in to it beforehand, not just “LOL I ATAK YEW.” So basically I’m doing the same thing, the only difference is I'm still using the community’s approved modifiers. IMO we should either have the same standard for all players or just throw the rules guidelines, and map out the window. It's not fair that Botha, and Junio get to dodge wars, just because they don't use modifiers.

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I don't understand why one group of players is allowed to be held to one standard while another isn't. To my knowledge, Botha would, and has fought rp wars, but there was a some thought put in to it beforehand, not just "LOL I ATAK YEW." So basically I'm doing the same thing, the only difference is I'm still using the community's approved modifiers. IMO we should either have the same standard for all players or just throw the rules guidelines, and map out the window. It's not fair that Botha, and Junio get to dodge wars, just because they don't use modifiers.

They don't dodge wars, people just respect their RP style enough to leave them alone.

Edited by Voodoo Nova
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They don't dodge wars, people just respect their RP style enough to leave them alone.

And now we get to what I believe is the root of the whole argument. Respect. everyone has formed their little cliques, and they wholeheartedly refuse to break that mold. Part of the whole reason I’m against certain countries in rp is because of the cliques they’ve had built up around themselves. Respect my rp style enough to leave me alone, that’s all I want.

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And why should the people who opt to avoid hastily and poorly planned, generally unpleasant, load-of-crap, stupid wars be entitled to any less respect?

I think the problem people have is that (at least in the way that its been presented) these off shoots of botha mode allow the rper'd the latitude to simply avoid undesirable aspects of the game while embracing only the parts they like. If a person wants to do then I don't really think this is the best place for them; instead they should simply write a story on their own time within whatever framework they like. At the end of the day is at the very least a community project, and at the most an out right game, meaning there is risk involved and bad things do happen. I think people would have alot less of an issue with positions like justinian's if it were made clear that they are not going to deny a war. Eg if a coalition approaches and says "we are going to invade you here is the reason why" then they could have a meeting to project it out and decide the ending. That dodges the OOC !@#$%^&*, but still maintains the fairness by not turning the planned war only mode into simply a shied against risk. In other words, if a nation wants to attack another nation on the basis of "I want your land" that is still a totally OOC valid reason (not to mention it has been the rational for countless wars in the past and present) and shouldn't be a basis for denying a war; that doesn't mean though that the war has to be poorly thought, a mess of ooc, or terrible in quality.

I don't have an issue with reforming the war system to avoid some of the OOC and god moding, but I do have an issue with the idea of making war itself an optional aspect of the game.

Edited by iamthey
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It's not fair that Botha, and Junio get to dodge wars, just because they don't use modifiers.

Keep in mind the few RP wars I have "fought" have also been done in real time (as well as IG stats)... which means those involved often lose interest because they haven't got the patience for my tank force or navy or whatever to travel somewhere one or two weeks later.

Also those who have been involved in RP wars with me have also recognised the fact (as a pre-condition to my involvement) they have to use their IG stats.

If an RP war serves the means to an end in pushing a story line (and not simply "I KAN LIKE ATTACK YEWS" or inflating someone's ego) then I've usually taken part if it has some relevance or bearing on the state of my nation. Examples include the Franzharian Empire in Somalia, my occupation of Arctica, or my failed occupation of Paraguay. But there hasn't been anything in over a year which has come along as being relevant or a story arc.

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I have a quick question for Justinian to make sure I'm not misunderstanding this.

If a nation or group of nations approaches you and gives you a reason for attacking, and tells you they intend to attack, will you fight that war even if the odds are against you, or would you block it? I've been thinking 'Justinian Mode' allows you to block even planned wars.

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Usually, people plan their wars. They just don't tell the defender they're planning it.

The point being, they never even regard the other person's RP when they do it, meaning that they do plan, but their plan leaves them open to fun situations like:

-I didn't know there was a river on our border!

-Uhg, you guys suck, I quit!

-I didn't read you factbook or any of your past threads, but I'm going to guess you have never built defenses, have no army, and that your population hates you.

-What do you mean you put soldiers on your border ages ago?!

-What do you mean anti-tank rounds can kill a tank?!

-What do you mean my tank can't go up a vertical cliff face in three feet of snow under heavy fire?!?

-What do you mean that you RPed your population not liking us? They are all my citizens now, and they all love me!

-We destroy all your military and push through the border without anyone fighting back!

-And I could go on for a good while.

The point is, what constitutes planning for almost everyone, is crap. You can't RP a good war without both parties being involved, because it always goes into an OOC flame-fest because the invaders never bothered to do some research into the defender's previous RP. Frankly, with every one of these wars that passes, it becomes more and more obvious that the vast majority of wars around here are just one person trying to pretend they are much better endowed than another, and then whine when they get shown that they aren't. If people don't want to RP wars, they shouldn't have to, especially with the state of most wars as crappy as they are.

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I see what you're saying and in a rant I posted in August did sort of do that. I think people are getting from me that I’m opting out of all wars forever and ever. That’s not what I’m trying to pull.

EDIT @ Drake: No, "Justinian Mode" if that's what we're going to really call it, cannot block any war just because sombody doesnt feel like fighting the war. I would expect a real cb, though, not just cause you felt like it.

Edited by Justinian the Mighty
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I see what you're saying and in a rant I posted in August did sort of do that. I think people are getting from me that I’m opting out of all wars forever and ever. That’s not what I’m trying to pull.

EDIT @ Drake: No, "Justinian Mode" if that's what we're going to really call it, cannot block any war just because sombody doesnt feel like fighting the war. I would expect a real cb, though, not just cause you felt like it.

Yeah, I was thinking you were avoiding another Nordland-Slavorussian War. This really gets rid of most of my objections. I just think a rule should be instated so people can't avoid a war because they don't want to lose a little land.

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It's not fair that Botha, and Junio get to dodge wars, just because they don't use modifiers.

Hence why the poll didn't have "except botha" anywhere in it. Straight yes/no on what the community thinks. If some people voted no on behalf of Botha that's their prerogative.

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Hence why the poll didn't have "except botha" anywhere in it. Straight yes/no on what the community thinks. If some people voted no on behalf of Botha that's their prerogative.

I don't like grandfathering.

If rules are changed, all should have to abide by it. And I don't want to force Botha to change his style, because I massively enjoy his RPs.

Thus, I will never vote for Bothamode (or "justin-mode") to be abolished.

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And I don't want to force Botha to change his style, because I massively enjoy his RPs.

Thanks for the support - but frankly, no one will force me to do anything I don't want to do. I've been RPing this way for almost three years and it's worked for me so far. So if it ain't broke, I don't plan to fix it.

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Frankly, with every one of these wars that passes, it becomes more and more obvious that the vast majority of wars around here are just one person trying to pretend they are much better endowed than another, and then whine when they get shown that they aren't.

Testify! This man speaks the truth! Amen!

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This pole ends when ww1 ends. :war:

I thinkyou mean 'poll.' :P

Really? Not having the option of RP warring doesn't seem to restrict me, does it?

No...because as you said once a long while back...you plan ahead. Meaning if war even looks like it's looming over you...you have a way out. ;)

Edited by Subtleknifewielder
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No...because as you said once a long while back...you plan ahead. Meaning if war even looks like it's looming over you...you have a way out. ;)

The Silver Revolution in Franzharian East Africa is the only time I can recall having something occur to my nation in RP that I did not have final control over - although it did go in a direction coincidently I wanted to move towards, which is why I didn't call "mulligan" and I allowed it to proceed.

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