Dooku Lost His Head and All He Got Was Eight More

[Mussolandia]

Its one alliance to many or closer to having to many depending on how many you have. You might think cool, we get to do a treaty announcement, but those build up. Do you go to this alliances forum in order to chat with them and make sure relations are good, or just assume others are talking with them enough? I like Citadel because I get to talk with all our MDP partners in one place, so even though I don't like going to many forums I at least keep in contact with them.

I read your objections, juxtapose them to Pansy's post and notice that you like Citadel because it's just one treaty you have to drop if you want to run, even if it's four allies you're leaving behind. By the way, Pansy, TGR merged into NSO a while ago.

I doubt Starfox will remain an IAA member for long. He's never been a team player and he quits (or gets expelled if it is an alliance he created) whenever he doesn't have his way.

[Sephiroth]

I read your objections, juxtapose them to Pansy's post and notice that you like Citadel because it's just one treaty you have to drop if you want to run, even if it's four allies you're leaving behind. By the way, Pansy, TGR merged into NSO a while ago.

We do have individual treaties with Argent and Gremlins as well, although its irrelevant as regardless of the odds FCC has already chosen who we fight with, that's Citadel. I feel safe saying what I want about NSO without fear of retaliation as I know Citadel is on my side, and compared to that NSO is powerless. Is the Terra-Cotta Pact a Mutual Defense Bloc or Economic Treaty?

[The Pansy]

Citadel and NOIR are two treaties to actually sign, I don't have individual treaties with most of those alliances. Also defensively we're only obligated to defend Citadel, the rest we can either choose to assist or not assist as we can do in any situation. I don't really think you can sign to many treaties if we're just to show some friendship but don't have serious obligations, although with MDPs I think its easy for many alliances to get carried away.

NOIR has gotten pretty big, it has some alliances we're friendly with and others we don't talk with. The ODP on there is to encourage a black team alliance to assist another being treated unfairly, but its not the type of ODP where its expected to be taken into very heavy consideration. Our individual ODPs are with OMFG and Fark, those ODPs were signed individually with the alliances due to the friendship that exists, and that friendship is what would make us very likely to activate it should they be attacked.

Sorry, you dont take the Noir Treaty seriously? why the hell did you sign it if you didnt intend to take it seriously?

And as you might note, bar the 2 blocs, they have 1 MDP.

NSO may be many many things in many peoples eyes, but you sir have done them a disservice with your incorrect statement

I read your objections, juxtapose them to Pansy's post and notice that you like Citadel because it's just one treaty you have to drop if you want to run, even if it's four allies you're leaving behind. By the way, Pansy, TGR merged into NSO a while ago.

Thanks for the heads up, just getting back into the lolitics malarkey, will edit now

[Sephiroth]

Sorry, you dont take the Noir Treaty seriously? why the hell did you sign it if you didnt intend to take it seriously?

NOIR is economic cooperation on the Black Team, which I believe in. The free senate and fellow black team alliances doing business together while not fighting each other is cool, but the membership requirements are pretty laid back and with how much its grown its hard to know all the alliances on there well enough that I would activate the ODP unless convenient to do so. There are some on there that I would activate the ODP is almost all situations as well, its the friendship between alliances that give a treaty its meaning.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Methrage

[Mussolandia]

I feel safe saying what I want about NSO without fear of retaliation as I know Citadel is on my side, and compared to that NSO is powerless. Is the Terra-Cotta Pact a Mutual Defense Bloc or Economic Treaty?

Heh, thanks for giving me a textbook opportunity to discourse on Sith philosophy. If you feel safe only because of the bloc you're a member of, you're inherently weak. It's only the strength of your own community that will save you in the end. We protect our allies and expect them to reciprocate, but we are conscious of reality and the power of "circumstances".

It also sort of turns upside the unwarranted attacks on us Sith that we shield ourselves through our treaties to "say what we want about X".

Yours was the same sensation the NPO and GOONS had when they were at the top. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Not to mention, you're not really at the top of the world.

EDIT: TC is both a trade and defence pact

Edited November 10, 2009 by Mussolandia

[The Pansy]

NOIR is economic cooperation on the Black Team, which I believe in. The free senate and fellow black team alliances doing business together while not fighting each other is cool, but the membership requirements are pretty laid back and with how much its grown its hard to know all the alliances on there well enough that I would activate the ODP unless convenient to do so. There are some on there that I would activate the ODP is almost all situations as well, its the friendship between alliances that give a treaty its meaning.

I guess that is where our alliances differ.

Olympus, as small as it is, takes all its few treaties very seriously, even the purple Peace bloc, which is an ODP.

A lot of soul searching and serious reasoning would have to come into play before we denied any of our PEACE brothers in battle no matter how close or far the ties are.

When we sign a treaty, we do our damnedest to make it count, PIAT, ODP, MDP, MADP whatever.

Hydra is a PEACE signatory, but you can be sure as hell should they come under attack from anyone we would be there, no matter how much our governments might have or might not have bickered in the past.

Edited November 10, 2009 by The Pansy

[Sephiroth]

I guess that is where our alliances differ.

Olympus, as small as it is, takes all its few treaties very seriously, even the purple Peace bloc, which is an ODP.

A lot of soul searching and serious reasoning would have to come into play before we denied any of our PEACE brothers in battle no matter how close or far the ties are.

When we sign a treaty, we do our damnedest to make it count, PIAT, ODP, MDP, MADP whatever.

Hydra is a PEACE signatory, but you can be sure as hell should they come under attack from anyone we would be there, no matter how much our governments might have or might not have bickered in the past.

If someone from NOIR got attacked you can be sure there would be plenty of discussion on the matter and whether we defend the NOIR signatory or not would be a decision taken very seriously. What I meant though is with so many members in NOIR we don't know all them well enough to be willing jump into a suicidal battle for them each of them. Although the alliances we have signed individual ODPs with, which are Fark and OMFG we signed with because they are alliances we now we would want to fight alongside and might just jump into that seemingly unwinnable war giving my support. Many members have joined NOIR afterward, and the consideration I would give towards defending those in NOIR would be due to the treaty, rather than the kind of friendship that would make me want to activate a treaty with an alliance I've built up a relationship with before signing.

Anyways NSO is a pretty new alliance and is already in a Bloc with 2 outside MDPs. While I wouldn't consider what they have to be to many MDPs, I do think the rate at which they've done so is faster than most alliances.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Methrage

[The Pansy]

If someone from NOIR got attacked you can be sure there would be plenty of discussion on the matter and whether we defend the NOIR signatory or not would be a decision taken very seriously. What I meant though is with so many members in NOIR we don't know all them well enough to be willing jump into a suicidal battle for them each of them. Although the alliances we have signed individual ODPs with, which are Fark and OMFG we signed with because they are alliances we now we would want to fight alongside and might just jump into that seemingly unwinnable war giving my support. Many members have joined NOIR afterward, and the consideration I would give towards defending those in NOIR would be due to the treaty, rather than the kind of friendship that would make me want to activate a treaty with an alliance I've built up a relationship with before signing.

I dont know enough about M*A*S*H to be honest, would i walk into a suicidal battle for them if they were wrongly attacked?

Yes.

I might refuse on grounds that they were completely unjustified in their actions to the other alliance.

(Sorry for picking you MASH but you are the peace sig who are the most high profile whom I know the least)

Again Congrats NSO and our allies Hydra on your display of friendship.

[Mussolandia]

I've also come to realize that the disbandment of TLC and the implosion of IoM actually keeps the number of treaty partners constant over the last few months, which of course, invalidates Methrage's last point.

[Heyman]

This is pretty cool. Love the flag, Hydra.

[Sephiroth]

I've also come to realize that the disbandment of TLC and the implosion of IoM actually keeps the number of treaty partners constant over the last few months, which of course, invalidates Methrage's last point.

As long as we don't see another one announced in the next 2-5 months you're doing alright on the treaties, although I was surprised there was no NPO MDP yet. NPO with all the declarations they were getting hit hard and your supposed neutrality as you poached members from the NPO didn't seem bad as all their treaties were meaningless. I'm sure they're looking for a new landing place politically and with their previous leader now leading NSO that would feel familiar and distant enough from Karma. How are NPO and NSO relations, do you think a treaty will happen? I do recall many NSO members arguing on behalf of NPO to be given better terms.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Methrage

[Ivan Moldavi]

As long as we don't see another one announced in the next 2-5 months you're doing alright on the treaties, although I was surprised there was no NPO MDP yet. NPO with all the declarations they were getting hit hard and your supposed neutrality as you poached members from the NPO didn't seem bad as all their treaties were meaningless. I'm sure they're looking for a new landing place politically and with their previous leader now leading NSO that would feel familiar and distant enough from Karma. How are NPO and NSO relations, do you think a treaty will happen? I do recall many NSO members arguing on behalf of NPO to be given better terms.

I do believe NPO is prevented from entering into treaties at present.

However, the Moldavi Doctrine states that any alliance has the sovereign right to interject against injustice, treaty or no treaty.

[Locke]

I do believe NPO is prevented from entering into treaties at present.

However, common sense states that any alliance has the sovereign right to interject against injustice, treaty or no treaty.

Fixed that for you, since we all know what you mean. Pity common sense isn't really...common.

[Sephiroth]

I do believe NPO is prevented from entering into treaties at present.

However, the Moldavi Doctrine states that any alliance has the sovereign right to interject against injustice, treaty or no treaty.

So them being prevented from signing another treaty is the only thing preventing you from signing one, but its pretty much de facto in effect. I'm sure NPO holds a grudge against many Karma alliances and many Karma Alliances feel that if given the opportunity NPO would seek revenge. Do you think their will be resistance towards NPO gaining a strong political foothold and that will transfer onto NSO? The last thing anyone wants is another Order led hegemony, but isn't that in conflict with your goal?

[Wad of Lint]

So them being prevented from signing another treaty is the only thing preventing you from signing one, but its pretty much de facto in effect. I'm sure NPO holds a grudge against many Karma alliances and many Karma Alliances feel that if given the opportunity NPO would seek revenge. Do you think their will be resistance towards NPO gaining a strong political foothold and that will transfer onto NSO? The last thing anyone wants is another Order led hegemony, but isn't that in conflict with your goal?

Considering a large part of signing treaties is an alliance's ability to do so, I can't say I've given the matter two bits of thought.

[Corinan]

As long as we don't see another one announced in the next 2-5 months you're doing alright on the treaties

Odd, I don't recall appointing you as the sole arbiter of our foreign affairs.

[Litha Riddle]

So them being prevented from signing another treaty is the only thing preventing you from signing one, but its pretty much de facto in effect. I'm sure NPO holds a grudge against many Karma alliances and many Karma Alliances feel that if given the opportunity NPO would seek revenge. Do you think their will be resistance towards NPO gaining a strong political foothold and that will transfer onto NSO? The last thing anyone wants is another Order led hegemony, but isn't that in conflict with your goal?

Have you even talked to any Pacificans? Or is this all coming out of your paranoia?

For one, we aren't holding grudges and we don't want revenge. So please get your facts straight before making accusations :/

And who put you in charge of our foreign affairs?

[DarkEra97]

I would barely consider one outside MDP to be too many, but I'll just take your word for it because you've appointed yourself decider of Sith foreign affairs. You are trying to stir up trouble without any justification, so unless you have more evidence to back your claims I would ask that this topic go back on topic please.

[Bob Janova]

Litha, you might want to check out Paul's posts, and some others' (WC, Branimir), and you'll see where people get that impression.

NOIR is a colour unity treaty, and not MDP level, so trying to use that to argue against Methrage isn't appropriate. I don't really think that NSO has too many treaties at the moment, though, and I'm sure Ivan's learnt from his experiences at NPO (when they definitely did sign too many treaties).

If you feel safe only because of the bloc you're a member of, you're inherently weak.

I don't think any alliance is safe on its own merits. It's worth noting that your alliance is safe because of the bloc you choose to be a member of, too – does that make you 'inherently weak'?

[Anthony]

Do you go to this alliances forum in order to chat with them and make sure relations are good, or just assume others are talking with them enough?

They don't let me out much.

[TehChron]

I don't think any alliance is safe on its own merits. It's worth noting that your alliance is safe because of the bloc you choose to be a member of, too – does that make you 'inherently weak'?

If only his point were about political standing and not individual perception.

[New Frontier]

Wait, why would we need a treaty with NPO?

I was under the impression we were the same alliance.

[Sephiroth]

Libertarian logic is superior to Sith, I have chosen for FCC to be a member of Citadel because I consider it powerful and effective. In the end what lasted longer One Vision, Q, or Citadel who is stronger than ever? I'm not short sighted enough to care about damage to my nation or think my alliance's strength alone can take on the world, but I do have allies I've built up relations with for over 2 years. I don't see how its weak to find security in political position, almost nobody would be safe with no allies.

[Desperado]

Interesting.

P.S: Love the new flag NSO.

B)

Great job on the new flag, Jacapo. Congrats on the treaty as well

[Geoffron X]

Libertarian logic

I don't understand.