SLCB Harboring Rogues?

[oinkoink12]

Guys Guys,

Crying about how invicta altered the logs isnt gonna make them attack someone, just go to sleep.

[dejarue]

For a while, I just figured that if Invicta didn't have Halfinger, they'd be a decent alliance with a decent reputation.

I see this is very much not the case.

[Amonra]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

<Waltar|Invicta> I'm sorry, but I disagree. Reps are required. Your member attacked, your member needs to pay for that.

<Waltar|Invicta> 3m is rather on the small side, actually. My gov wanted me to ask for more, but I'm trying to be polite.

<ogodai> Well, very sorry.

<Waltar|Invicta> Very sorry? I kind of expected a different response.

<Waltar|Invicta> Nothing we can do about this, seriously?

<ogodai> Well, we aren't going to pay - with regards to that, my apologies.

* ogodai has quit (Quit: I am Zebedee, lord of the woods! Bow down snail, I have dominion!)

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

[Neo Uruk]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

Good job altering that set. How did it not make it into the undoctored logs?

Your smear campaign is quickly turning against you. I suggest not mixing around and adding lines next time, thanks.

[Lord Brendan]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

That's a bit better, but you still changed the sense of the words by changing the order. Incredibly stupid; it ruins your credibility in this and you don't even gain anything from it.

[Scorbolt]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

By your definition of what does or does not count as 'Doctoring' logs we can reasonably assume that your posted logs have been significantly altered.

[Jingoist]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

have you people seriously never heard of negotiating? i mean seriously.

sometimes it goes something like this:

a. initial offer

b. outright refusal to do anything of the sort

c. time passes

d. second offer

e. solution

what is this, amateur hour?

[Timtacious]

have you people seriously never heard of negotiating? i mean seriously.

sometimes it goes something like this:

a. initial offer

b. outright refusal to do anything of the sort

c. time passes

d. second offer

e. solution

what is this, amateur hour?

Possibly. Because after a straight-up refusal to do "anything of the sort", there'd be no reason to even try to negotiate.

[Delta1212]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

But you agreed they were doctored earlier on this very page. Now I'm just confused.

[Amonra]

But you agreed they were doctored earlier on this very page. Now I'm just confused.

I said condensed not doctored.

[wickedj]

Here is the tail end of those logs:

Just becuase you didnt see the logs does not mean they were made up.

yaknow there was once a red alliance who frequently doctored or even made stuff up just so they could go to war. you arent quite up to par with all that so please stop trying before you hand Stickmen yet *ANOTHER* CB against you

[KillerKoel]

I said condensed not doctored.

lying once or twice changes nothing.

[porksaber]

Possibly. Because after a straight-up refusal to do "anything of the sort", there'd be no reason to even try to negotiate.

Look at item B in the list you replied to!

[Delta1212]

I said condensed not doctored.

You said, and I quote:

they were doctoring logs

Granted, I condensed it a bit, but I think we can both agree that's alright.

[Jingoist]

Possibly. Because after a straight-up refusal to do "anything of the sort", there'd be no reason to even try to negotiate.

except that our negotiation tactics got us exactly what we wanted.

edit: word choice

Edited October 29, 2009 by Jingoist

[Fronz]

man this thread has it all, potential CBs, Log dumps, a smear campaign, doctored logs, e-lawyering...and much more.

I believe this earns Invicta a "Brilliant political move" from me.

[Mixoux]

So, uh, when are we seeing the DoW?

[MiasmaCircle]

Pro-tip:

Quit your !@#$%*ing.

Try some real diplomacy or get over it.

[Waltar]

Not going to quote anyone in particular on this post, because so many have already brought it up. It was my intention to post the logs last night, but I was busy with a lot of queries and a lot of questions, and by time I got to bed it was 1AM and needed to be up at 5:30AM for work.

Here are the full logs. Sorry they were not posted sooner.

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 27 18:38:24 2009

[jingoist[sLCB] has address <edited out>]

Oct 27 18:38:25 <jingoist[sLCB]> there's really no point in any further discussion

Oct 27 18:38:28 <jingoist[sLCB]> we both know where we are at

Oct 27 18:38:33 <Waltar|Invicta> Hey man, I'm trying to smooth things over.

Oct 27 18:38:35 <jingoist[sLCB]> but what did you want

Oct 27 18:38:37 <Waltar|Invicta> I'm acting President.

Oct 27 18:38:46 <Waltar|Invicta> I apologize for my guys.

Oct 27 18:38:48 <jingoist[sLCB]> i hope so because the other two guys i talked to were being absurd

Oct 27 18:38:50 <jingoist[sLCB]> k

Oct 27 18:38:51 <Waltar|Invicta> We're all on edge.

Oct 27 18:38:54 <jingoist[sLCB]> all i want is a little time

Oct 27 18:38:57 <jingoist[sLCB]> i understand

Oct 27 18:39:05 <Waltar|Invicta> I don't mind giving another day.

Oct 27 18:39:18 <jingoist[sLCB]> thank you. i've ordered our guy to send peace offers

Oct 27 18:39:28 <Waltar|Invicta> Thanks.

Oct 27 18:39:36 <Waltar|Invicta> It seems like he's got it out for Invicta.

Oct 27 18:39:40 <jingoist[sLCB]> well

Oct 27 18:39:46 <Waltar|Invicta> I dunno why.

Oct 27 18:39:47 <jingoist[sLCB]> he doesn't understand much about CN politics

Oct 27 18:39:56 <jingoist[sLCB]> and he has seen a lot of posts on the cn forums

Oct 27 18:40:00 <jingoist[sLCB]> back and forth between us

Oct 27 18:40:04 <Waltar|Invicta> Ah, ok.

Oct 27 18:40:05 <jingoist[sLCB]> and he doesn't take this game particularly seriously

Oct 27 18:40:07 <jingoist[sLCB]> soooooo

Oct 27 18:40:08 <jingoist[sLCB]> in any case

Oct 27 18:40:09 <Waltar|Invicta> heh

Oct 27 18:40:15 <Waltar|Invicta> I understand.

Oct 27 18:40:22 <jingoist[sLCB]> he's a long standing member and i dont wanna just throw him to the wolves without finding out what the $%&@ happened

Oct 27 18:40:23 <Waltar|Invicta> I'd just like it sorted out is all.

Oct 27 18:40:23 <jingoist[sLCB]> you knwo?

Oct 27 18:40:27 <jingoist[sLCB]> yeah for sure

Oct 27 18:40:28 <Waltar|Invicta> Yep, I know.

Oct 27 18:40:33 <jingoist[sLCB]> thanks for comin by

Oct 27 18:40:35 <jingoist[sLCB]> we'll be in touch

Oct 27 18:40:36 <Waltar|Invicta> We were in the same boat

Oct 27 18:40:39 <Waltar|Invicta> No problem.

Oct 27 18:41:01 <Waltar|Invicta> You mind if I stick around your channel? Would like to improve the way we are thought of if I can.

Oct 27 18:41:24 <jingoist[sLCB]> yeah that's no problem.

Oct 27 18:41:29 <jingoist[sLCB]> i don't kb cool folks

Oct 27 18:41:37 <jingoist[sLCB]> which is when devinm is still around

Oct 27 18:41:39 <Waltar|Invicta> k, thanks.

Oct 27 18:41:43 <Waltar|Invicta> heh

Oct 27 18:43:06 <jingoist[sLCB]> suffice it to say that slcb is a little sensitive right now when it comes to communications from invicta

Oct 27 18:43:14 <jingoist[sLCB]> from haflinger to el scorcho et al

Oct 27 18:43:24 <jingoist[sLCB]> things are a bit tense as i imagine you know

Oct 27 18:43:28 <Waltar|Invicta> Yeah, well, I apologize. Like I said, we're all a little on edge.

Oct 27 18:43:35 <Waltar|Invicta> I was too, but I've calmed down a lot.

Oct 27 18:43:43 <jingoist[sLCB]> understood and appreciate the apology.

Oct 27 18:43:47 <jingoist[sLCB]> we'll get this thing hammered oot

Oct 27 18:43:52 <Waltar|Invicta> Good. Glad to hear it!

Oct 27 18:44:00 <Waltar|Invicta> If there's anythign else I can do, feel free to PM me in game.

Oct 27 18:44:06 <jingoist[sLCB]> f'sho

Oct 27 18:46:29 * jingoist[sLCB] has quit (Quit: )

**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 27 19:11:01 2009

*** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 28 17:46:46 2009

Oct 28 17:46:55 <Waltar|Invicta> Just checking in on the Kurt situation from last night.

[Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has address <edited out>]

Oct 28 17:47:07 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> Ok.

Oct 28 17:47:13 <Waltar|Invicta> Looks like he peaced two of the three - not sure if the third one is due to inactivity on our guy or not.

Oct 28 17:47:22 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> Most likly.

Oct 28 17:47:27 <Waltar|Invicta> Ok.

Oct 28 17:47:44 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> And?

Oct 28 17:49:42 <Waltar|Invicta> Well, was hoping jingoist was around as I had discussed it with him last night. We have got a reps number for him.

Oct 28 17:49:57 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> He is masturbating I think.

Oct 28 17:49:58 <Waltar|Invicta> Sorry, had to go do something.

Oct 28 17:50:02 <Waltar|Invicta> Ah, good for him.

Oct 28 17:50:08 <Waltar|Invicta> heh

Oct 28 17:50:28 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> You can give me the number

Oct 28 17:50:32 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> And I will relay it back

Oct 28 17:51:39 <Waltar|Invicta> Ok, I'm querying with ogodai too, but we're looking for 3m for each nation.

Oct 28 17:52:07 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> ok

**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 28 18:56:44 2009

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 28 19:41:57 2009

Oct 28 19:42:49 <Waltar|Invicta> Hey man, you around?

[Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has address <edited out>]

Oct 28 19:42:54 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> Hi

Oct 28 19:43:14 <Waltar|Invicta> ogodai said no go to the reps. What's going on with that?

Oct 28 19:43:26 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> The damage done was minimal, reps are hardly needed.

Oct 28 19:44:12 <Waltar|Invicta> It's not necessarily a matter of damage done. As was wanted from one of our nations when he had aided another nation was 9m.

Oct 28 19:44:23 <Waltar|Invicta> 3m is a drop in the bucket.

Oct 28 19:44:30 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> That was with iFOK.

Oct 28 19:44:34 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> SLCB=/=iFOK

Oct 28 19:44:41 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> It's more the principle of the matetr

Oct 28 19:44:42 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> *matter

Oct 28 19:44:52 <Waltar|Invicta> Exactly. Your guy attacked two of our nations.

Oct 28 19:45:02 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> He declared war, probably sent a couple of CM's

Oct 28 19:45:09 <Waltar|Invicta> He anarchied one of them.

Oct 28 19:45:29 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> He did? lol, never knew Kurt could collect taxes enver mind deploy troops

Oct 28 19:46:04 <Waltar|Invicta> Well, the guy is anarchied. Maybe he didn't do it, but it seems like quite the coincidence.

Oct 28 19:46:51 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> I wasn't saying he didn't

Oct 28 19:46:56 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> I was making a joke ¬_¬

Oct 28 19:47:24 <Waltar|Invicta> I'm sorry I missed it. I'm a bit fired up over the fact that you guys are just dismissing this action by one of your senior members.

Oct 28 19:48:07 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> He was high probably, DoW'd a few people, did a GA or two

Oct 28 19:48:17 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> It's not like me at 96k NS doing a ground attack, causing million of damage

Oct 28 19:48:21 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> He's 5k NS

Oct 28 19:48:25 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> And probably caused a few thousand

Oct 28 19:51:15 <Waltar|Invicta> Being high really isn't an excuse, I'm sorry.

Oct 28 19:52:03 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> k...

Oct 28 19:52:29 <Waltar|Invicta> And, as you mentioned, it's the principle of the matter. We cannot dismiss this without reps.

Oct 28 19:52:50 <Matt-Shovel[sLCB]> Well, sorry, but we aren't paying reps.

Oct 28 22:28:35 * Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has quit (Ping timeout)

Oct 29 02:46:59 * Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has quit (Ping timeout)

Oct 29 03:19:44 * Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has quit (Ping timeout)

Oct 29 03:45:26 * Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has quit (Client exited)

Oct 29 03:52:59 * Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has quit (Ping timeout)

Oct 29 04:26:32 * Matt-Shovel[sLCB] has quit (Ping timeout)

**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 29 07:10:07 2009

Edit - forgot ogodai

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 28 17:50:24 2009

Oct 28 17:50:29 <Waltar|Invicta> Was just talking with Matt

Oct 28 17:50:40 <Waltar|Invicta> Wanted to check in on the Kurt issue from last night.

[ogodai has address <edited out>]

Oct 28 17:50:41 <ogodai> Cool!

Oct 28 17:50:50 <ogodai> Excellent. He offered peace.

Oct 28 17:50:53 <Waltar|Invicta> Yeah, I see.

Oct 28 17:51:09 <Waltar|Invicta> Except one of our guys must not have been on to accept it.

Oct 28 17:51:19 <Waltar|Invicta> We've come to a reps number too.

Oct 28 17:52:18 <ogodai> Hooray

Oct 28 17:52:38 <Waltar|Invicta> Yep. As I mentioned to Matt, we're looking for 3m for each nation at Invicta that he attacked.

Oct 28 17:52:46 <ogodai> That's cool

Oct 28 17:52:48 <Waltar|Invicta> Figure that's fair.

Oct 28 17:53:11 <ogodai> It certainly SOUNDS fair

Oct 28 17:53:17 <Waltar|Invicta> I do hope so.

Oct 28 17:55:05 <ogodai> Will get back to you shortly

Oct 28 17:55:09 <Waltar|Invicta> Thanks.

Oct 28 18:22:56 <ogodai> We've come to a consensus that given the tiny amount of damage dealt by Kurt, reps aren't really necessary and probably a waste of aid.

Oct 28 18:27:28 <Waltar|Invicta> I'm sorry, but I disagree. Reps are required. Your member attacked, your member needs to pay for that.

Oct 28 18:28:17 <Waltar|Invicta> 3m is rather on the small side, actually. My gov wanted me to ask for more, but I'm trying to be polite.

Oct 28 18:31:40 <ogodai> Well, very sorry.

Oct 28 19:40:27 <Waltar|Invicta> Very sorry? I kind of expected a different response.

Oct 28 19:40:35 <Waltar|Invicta> Nothing we can do about this, seriously?

Oct 28 20:15:06 <ogodai> Well, we aren't going to pay - with regards to that, my apologies.

Oct 28 21:27:18 * ogodai has quit (Quit: I am Zebedee, lord of the woods! Bow down snail, I have dominion!)

**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 29 07:10:07 2009

Edited October 29, 2009 by Waltar

[oinkoink12]

Not going to quote anyone in particular on this post, because so many have already brought it up. It was my intention to post the logs last night, but I was busy with a lot of queries and a lot of questions, and by time I got to bed it was 1AM and needed to be up at 5:30AM for work.

Here are the full logs. Sorry they were not posted sooner.

Filling up the hole after you fell in it. :lol1:

[porksaber]

Filling up the hole after you fell in it. :lol1:

To his credit, Waltar was cool to work with and was probably the most instrumental in all of invicta to getting things resolved. I don't feel misled by him in the least bit.

[King Srqt]

Those logs paint a different picture than the ones in the OP. Why on earth would you rearange the logs to make it look as though SLCB rejected reps before even hearing a number and without actual discussion? i can only think of one reason and that is that you wante dto smear SLCB in any way possible to get the upper hand in your little feud.

There is never an excuse for lying and slandering an alliance by intentionally misrepresenting logs and it makes you look much worse in this situation regardless of whether SLCB was right or wrong from the start.

[Waltar]

To his credit, Waltar was cool to work with and was probably the most instrumental in all of invicta to getting things resolved. I don't feel misled by him in the least bit.

Thanks man, I appreciate this. I know I said this in query just now to you too, but I'll say it here as well - I appreciated working with you on this as well.

[WarriorConcept]

Those logs paint a different picture than the ones in the OP. Why on earth would you rearange the logs to make it look as though SLCB rejected reps before even hearing a number and without actual discussion? i can only think of one reason and that is that you wante dto smear SLCB in any way possible to get the upper hand in your little feud.

There is never an excuse for lying and slandering an alliance by intentionally misrepresenting logs and it makes you look much worse in this situation regardless of whether SLCB was right or wrong from the start.

Pretty much this. Enjoy your lowered credibility with anything you say from now on invicta.

[Neo Uruk]

Waltar really was a cool guy in #slcb and the leadership said he was awesome. I thank him for his contributions in this ordeal and for helping to get this mess sorted.