Bill Wallace Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I would not get into a "who sacrificed more" argument with an ex-Vox member, especially one of Schattenmann's caliber. That's not my intent. My point is that whatever problems Schatt has with VE from things that happened years ago, should be left in the past because VE is a different alliance than it was then and we've proven it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wow, schattenman just handed VE their $@! on a platter with the posts on page 5. Ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 That's not my intent. My point is that whatever problems Schatt has with VE from things that happened years ago, should be left in the past because VE is a different alliance than it was then and we've proven it. Obviously, Schatt doesn't believe that based on your actions. Personally I think everyone looks like a moron with this whole incident, but it was a good read so whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wow, schattenman just handed VE their $@! on a platter with the posts on page 5.Ridiculous. Yea, really...because what he said is reasonable, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Well, you can pretend to have said the same thing I did back at me, but it won't make much sense since I'm not the one that claimed a side of the argument was failing because they referenced the faults of the other side. Your "no u" has been duly noted, however. Did you really note that down? Yea, really...because what he said is reasonable, right? I'm just gonna pretend you're not being sarcastic and have conceded defeat so as to not further tarnish your name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wow, schattenman just handed VE their $@! on a platter with the posts on page 5.Ridiculous. They just keep digging. You would think they would learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yea, really...because what he said is reasonable, right? Reasonable? I tend to believe what he said, especially about VE being against everything after it was for it, or vice versa really, and the ephriam grey thing, because those things are true. And then the vox thing, if that's true, is just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Yea, really...because what he said is reasonable, right? Right, now you get it. When are you guys going to realize that Schatt's been playing you and your comrades like a piano? It's really been most satisfying to watch, here on the sidelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm just gonna pretend you're not being sarcastic and have conceded defeat so as to not further tarnish your name. lol Amazing, truly amazing. You obviously think his points were more valid then my own, mind explaining how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I actually just like his avatar. :colbert: (I honestly think you should re-read this thread. He's made a lot of valid points: VE interfering in OV issues, VE 'changing' to always stay on the right side of the curbstomp, always backing Ephriam Grey as he was an absolute !@#$% to pretty much anyone weaker than him, VE threatening legal ramifications if Vox didn't stop spying on them, etc. None of that is just made up.. I could personally testify if I cared to. All you've done is !@#$%foot around a bit and accuse him of being a hypocrite because of the bubblegum war (which, by the way, doesn't actually negate anything)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethb Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I wonder if some of the responses in this thread would be the same if it was someone besides Schatt throwing around the accusations against VE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Instead of, 'Gee I really hate to agree with that !@#$%^& Schatt, but he's right...' it'd be, 'I totally agree with you!' Is that what you were getting at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I actually just like his avatar. :colbert:(I honestly think you should re-read this thread. He's made a lot of valid points: VE interfering in OV issues, VE 'changing' to always stay on the right side of the curbstomp, always backing Ephriam Grey as he was an absolute !@#$% to pretty much anyone weaker than him, VE threatening legal ramifications if Vox didn't stop spying on them, etc. None of that is just made up.. I could personally testify if I cared to. All you've done is !@#$%foot around a bit and accuse him of being a hypocrite because of the bubblegum war (which, by the way, doesn't actually negate anything)). I think you should honestly reread my posts. What I'm referring to is his post on the top of page 5. Plain and simple, nothing he listed as support warrants that type of anger, and his interest in the overall issue of OV and GUN is bizarre. Can you really deny that the things he mentioned were very, very long ago and Viridia has shown themselves to be much different since then? Do you really think his attitude here is anything short of insane? It is so out of proportion from the matter at hand, its almost undeniable (unless you just want to blindly support people, which is more likely going to be the norm here). I can understand mild disagreement, and in the other thread there were quite a few respectful debates on the topic, but this is out of control. Also, as for the whole browncoats association, it certainly does have a place in this argument, it goes to character. He made a claim that we are the "biggest survivalist alliance in the game" (which by the way, out of all the insults I have ever heard about VE, is a brand new one) and he provided links to Andromeda threads as reference. As his claim was unfounded, I made the same claim about him but had a factual basis behind it, seeing as he waged a fake war to abandon his allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I wonder if some of the responses in this thread would be the same if it was someone besides Schatt throwing around the accusations against VE. He's proven himself a grand reporter. None in all of Planet Bob has surpassed his truth-telling skill. A grand publication. And they said you were done with TWiP. 10/10 would read again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I think you should honestly reread my posts. What I'm referring to is his post on the top of page 5. Plain and simple, nothing he listed as support warrants that type of anger, and his interest in the overall issue of OV and GUN is bizarre. Can you really deny that the things he mentioned were very, very long ago and Viridia has shown themselves to be much different since then? Do you really think his attitude here is anything short of insane? It is so out of proportion from the matter at hand, its almost undeniable (unless you just want to blindly support people, which is more likely going to be the norm here). I can understand mild disagreement, and in the other thread there were quite a few respectful debates on the topic, but this is out of control.Also, as for the whole browncoats association, it certainly does have a place in this argument, it goes to character. He made a claim that we are the "biggest survivalist alliance in the game" (which by the way, out of all the insults I have ever heard about VE, is a brand new one) and he provided links to Andromeda threads as reference. As his claim was unfounded, I made the same claim about him but had a factual basis behind it, seeing as he waged a fake war to abandon his allies. He then waged a 10 month war fighting at near ZI. As for VE's survivalist history, come on now. You came into the world treatied to the very same people who wanted your destruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I actually just like his avatar. :colbert:(I honestly think you should re-read this thread. He's made a lot of valid points: VE interfering in OV issues, VE 'changing' to always stay on the right side of the curbstomp, always backing Ephriam Grey as he was an absolute !@#$% to pretty much anyone weaker than him, VE threatening legal ramifications if Vox didn't stop spying on them, etc. None of that is just made up.. I could personally testify if I cared to. All you've done is !@#$%foot around a bit and accuse him of being a hypocrite because of the bubblegum war (which, by the way, doesn't actually negate anything)). Umm sure if you live under a rock maybe some points are valid, but with quick and easy one that isnt up for agrument lets go with. VE 'changing' to always stay on the right side of the curbstomp Maybe you missed the whole green civil war when our former allies suddenly turned on us and we disbanded rather than accept a move off green? Yea us leaving TI and then getting back stabbed was totally us switching sides to avoid the curbstomp. *facepalm* I mean seriously, do people every actually learn anything on their own anymore or do they just pick somebody they like and accept everything they say as the gospel? If you actually believe what you say and aren't just here to take potshots at us becuase the people you think are cool are also doing it then I have to say your ignorance of our history is astounding. I missed two years of it and I still know more about it than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earogema Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Umm sure if you live under a rock maybe some points are valid, but with quick and easy one that isnt up for agrument lets go with.Maybe you missed the whole green civil war when our former allies suddenly turned on us and we disbanded rather than accept a move off green? Yea us leaving TI and then getting back stabbed was totally us switching sides to avoid the curbstomp. *facepalm* I mean seriously, do people every actually learn anything on their own anymore or do they just pick somebody they like and accept everything they say as the gospel? If you actually believe what you say and aren't just here to take potshots at us becuase the people you think are cool are also doing it then I have to say your ignorance of our history is astounding. I missed two years of it and I still know more about it than you. That's because you didn't have an opportunity to switch. You were pretty much doomed already. Besides, earlier in this thread, arguments were made that your history when tied to NPO was invalid as a method of observing VE's current stances. Now of course, your history exonerates you. Pick one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypoNinja Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 That's because you didn't have an opportunity to switch. You were pretty much doomed already. Ahh so you ARE that ignorant of history, good to know. Besides, earlier in this thread, arguments were made that your history when tied to NPO was invalid as a method of observing VE's current stances. Now of course, your history exonerates you. Pick one. Not by me, and regardless you are taking them out of context, my comments about our history are relevant because I was addressing someone elses claims about our history, not current events. This is one of those cases where you can have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Generally insulting people by pointing out that they apparently don't understand your history refutes none of the points Schatt has made, nor does it make you not a survivalist alliance now. You keep saying all those things about VE are IN THE PAST, so was the GCV and I don't give two !@#$s about it. I dunno why you guys think you can just keep pointing at Schatt as some loony ex-Vox member who no one's gonna listen to. It's blatantly not going down that way. You're lucky you've got TBB's name to bandy around next to Schatt's as being against you, because that's about the only thing that's going for you in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) Oh god, I can actually sense the burn coming this time. Unfortunately, I was detained by other business for several hours this evening. But the soul still burns. You missed my point which was that you can now reside on Red without being attacked due to another alliance's doctrine concerning the sphere. That didn't just happen. I personally lost a total of 7000 infra through several ZI's and lost 1600 tech through 100 days of war and ate 18 nukes so you can live in peace and prosper. So, you're welcome? And I bet if you'd known it beforehand, you wouldn't have cancelled on NPO. And yes, VE was officially pro NPO at one time, but believe me when I tell you that there was no love for NPO and VE government did the right thing and cancelled the Christmas Accords. That's change, right? I mean come on! But, in your eyes we just continue to act like we always do? We along with our many great allies helped defeat the Hegemony. Yet, your hate for us continues. I don't know what else to say. My dislike and disapproval of VE will continue for as long as VE's modes continues. You say my comparison is not valid because it was two years ago, No, I say your feeble attempt at a Bubblegum War lowblow stopped workig two years ago because I've always been 100% open and complete about what happened, why, my part in it, etc. I've written the wiki and two threads. It doesn't work because it's got no heat left in it. For Admin's sake I'm wearing a Browncoats costume. and your big links are to Andromeda threads from a year and a half ago? Seriously? Sorry, I must have missed the statute of limitations on relevant comparisons, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that waging a fake war to get out of your treaty obligations and abandoning your allies is far more valid then something VE did not even do. You keep saying VE didn't do any of the things that VE continues to do as if that's going to erase history. VE was lavishly pro-PZI before they were righteously against it. With the same Lord Protector in place. VE was staunchly pro-Polaris, before VE was righteously against Polaris. Under the same Lord Protector. VE was staunchly pro-Pacifica, before VE as righteously against it. VE presumes to mete out punishment to foreign politicians under the guise of righteous justice, while shielding war criminals like EphriamGrey and giving amnesty/asylum to rebel instigators like SethB. You think that because you hated NPO while you were treatied to them that you're somehow absolved of everything you did to keep your own butts out of the fire. You point to my one-time Hall of Fame fumble and in your twisted little birdcaged mentality you think that it amounts to or equates to anything that VE ever did. Here's the big difference: The only alliance that ever got attacked and disbanded because of my actions was my own. You point to your actions in 2 months over the past two years as if they are the indicator of your true character, not the other 22. You say they are evidence of your sweeping change, even in the midst of yet another callous, hamhanded steamroller job (on OV). Also, neither of those threads are examples of us being survivalists, and there are no such examples. What planet do you live on? Here on Planet Bob, I leveled a range of accusations against you, including that you have given long, lonnnnng-term support to the forced disbandments, fabricated wars, falsified documents, PZI sentences--those two links pertain to those accusations because that's what they show--the Walford PZI doesn't say "Andromeda PZIs Walford" it says "Walford is an Enemy of the Entente and Andomeda". See which alliance name comes first? The one with muscle and clout in the relationship, Viridian Entente. Of course they don't show survivalism, they're not about your survivalist nature. (occ: As for the legal thing, you could not bring suit for that and I know his concern there was unwarranted, but it had nothing to do with CN or Vox, your way off base with that one...it was triggered from his paranoia from someone else being stupid in the past. Either way, not a topic for here.) Again, really? How does a letter to Vox Populi about Vox Populi's activites from Viridian Entente about Viridian Entente's forums not have anythign to do with Digiterra or Vox Populi? You make it easy for people to agree with me because it's basically a decision between reality and a place where people breathe purple. That's not my intent. My point is that whatever problems Schatt has with VE from things that happened years ago, should be left in the past because VE is a different alliance than it was then and we've proven it. No, you've proven the exact opposite. Though your positions change on matters (PZI, treaties, CBs, etc) your alliance's character never changes. You come snivelign onto the world stage passing off half-truths and whole lies as fact, get indignant when someone says your crap smells like crap, and talk about how you dragged yourselves out of the gutter of shattered disbandment into the shining brotherhood of reincarnated glory, whereupon you immediately began playing the same ball game that killed you. And you're still playing it. Right, now you get it. When are you guys going to realize that Schatt's been playing you and your comrades like a piano? It's really been most satisfying to watch, here on the sidelines. <xxxxxxxx> Impero isn't familiar with you, is he? No, no, he's not. This became a whole new world of lolwut when I started hitting VE's nose with a roll of primary documents. He made a claim that we are the "biggest survivalist alliance in the game" No, I revealed the fact that "VE is basically the biggest grouping of survivalist hypocrites currently in existence anywhere on the planet." Edit/note: Ephriam and I have spoken on occassion in the past few months. Unlike some people I know, he is very repentent and while I'd never take a screenshot or log at face value from EG I am not bringing him up to hammer on him, but to show what VE was spooning with. Edited October 21, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Obviously, Schatt doesn't believe that based on your actions. Personally I think everyone looks like a moron with this whole incident, but it was a good read so whatever. Mission accomplished. (Glad to see you around.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Same stuff as usual We can both do this all day, I'm pretty sure you realize that. Every single one of your points can be contended, and then in turn you can continue to contend selective points of my own. Same cycle, here's the bottom line difference: your pandering to a crowd to paint a certain defamitory picture of my alliance (out of the blue) and I'm fending off your babel. You rolled up nothing and hit no one on the nose with anything that was not givin right back to you, you just have 4 or 5 people posting replies in blind support. As you said, I may not know you, but I know people like you...and they don't last very long where I'm from. In an environment such as this, you may actually even be able to trick yourself into thinking you have pulled the wool over someones eyes, but trust me there are plenty of people here who see right through all the extravagant amount of crap you created over an issue that has nothing to do with you. It's been commented on in private by others and noted. If, as you say, you really had some personal issue with VE or relevant concerns surrounding our role in any of the events that took place with GUN, and wanted further comment, you could have come and spoken with us like a man... yet this childish display is the route you choose instead. So by all means, continue. You have successfully swayed the minds of people who already shared your opinions anyway, certainly a victory that can help one sleep at night. I truly do wish I had more time, but I need to go actually argue for [occ: a grade] in the morning, rest assured though we can pick this back up tomorrow if your still inclined to be singing off topic nonsense from your soap box when I return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 We can both do this all day, I'm pretty sure you realize that. Every single one of your points can be contended, and then in turn you can continue to contend selective points of my own. Same cycle, here's the bottom line difference: your pandering to a crowd to paint a certain defamitory picture of my alliance (out of the blue) and I'm fending off your babel. You rolled up nothing and hit no one on the nose with anything that was not givin right back to you, you just have 4 or 5 people posting replies in blind support. As you said, I may not know you, but I know people like you...and they don't last very long where I'm from. In an environment such as this, you may actually even be able to trick yourself into thinking you have pulled the wool over someones eyes, but trust me there are plenty of people here who see right through all the extravagant amount of crap you created over an issue that has nothing to do with you. It's been commented on in private by others and noted. If, as you say, you really had some personal issue with VE or relevant concerns surrounding our role in any of the events that took place with GUN, and wanted further comment, you could have come and spoken with us like a man... yet this childish display is the route you choose instead. So by all means, continue. You have successfully swayed the minds of people who already shared your opinions anyway, certainly a victory that can help one sleep at night. I truly do wish I had more time, but I need to go actually argue for [occ: a grade] in the morning, rest assured though we can pick this back up tomorrow if your still inclined to be singing off topic nonsense from your soap box when I return. Ya know, Shatt's an $@! and wrong some 80% of the time, but you aren't helping your cause with so high and mighty a retort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildThing Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well sure, dismiss Schatt's criticism as crazy but I don't think you've taken sufficient interest in my disapproval of your actions. I will not forget this. :< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) We can both do this all day, I'm pretty sure you realize that. Every single one of your points can be contended, and then in turn you can continue to contend selective points of my own. Same cycle, here's the bottom line difference: your pandering to a crowd to paint a certain defamitory picture of my alliance (out of the blue) and I'm fending off your babel. You rolled up nothing and hit no one on the nose with anything that was not givin right back to you, you just have 4 or 5 people posting replies in blind support. As you said, I may not know you, but I know people like you...and they don't last very long where I'm from. In an environment such as this, you may actually even be able to trick yourself into thinking you have pulled the wool over someones eyes, but trust me there are plenty of people here who see right through all the extravagant amount of crap you created over an issue that has nothing to do with you. It's been commented on in private by others and noted. If, as you say, you really had some personal issue with VE or relevant concerns surrounding our role in any of the events that took place with GUN, and wanted further comment, you could have come and spoken with us like a man... yet this childish display is the route you choose instead. So by all means, continue. You have successfully swayed the minds of people who already shared your opinions anyway, certainly a victory that can help one sleep at night. I truly do wish I had more time, but I need to go actually argue for [occ: a grade] in the morning, rest assured though we can pick this back up tomorrow if your still inclined to be singing off topic nonsense from your soap box when I return. I have to say, this debunked his arguement rather well don't you think. No counter-arguement there whatsoever! That's what I've seen so far in this thread, many attempts to turn away from the matter at hand. Congratulations you've succeeded Edited October 21, 2009 by Johnny Apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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