PSA from the Justitian Research Institute

[crushtania]

Schattenmann loves his investigative journalism. And you now have converted me to look forward to your features.

[Sequoia Throne]

This is pure win Schattenmann B)

OV, I would say I wish you the best but... I really, truly don't.

[General Scian]

VE is evil. We are couping alliances, and installing pro-Viridian governments. Watch out. You're next.

o/ Viridian Imperialism. Taking over CN, one ally at a time.

[draov]

The next thing you know he will be couping his allies and telling them its for their own good. It never ends with him.

I shall wait expectantly for this moment.

[Geoffron X]

Well, Would you rather him lie?

So, you're agreed that Ordo Verde is mostly inactive?

[FreddieMercury]

Man, now I regret not keeping up to date on TWiP some time back.

Excellent material.

[Dr hairy Ballz]

Good god I am at a loss. Are you really that interested?

GTFO mah alliance politics now please, ty.

SRS BSNS: OV is not going to allow outside influence to affect our internal policy no matter what pressures are present. End of story on this one, you can keep talking but we will keep resolving, thanks.

[Alicia]

If 5 VE members took the poll then chances are they would have picked the results that skew the poll towards their side of the story.

SRS BSNS: OV is not going to allow outside influence to affect our internal policy no matter what pressures are present.

Please tell me you are not being serious?

[sethb]

If 5 VE members took the poll then chances are they would have picked the results that skew the poll towards their side of the story.

Please tell me you are not being serious?

DHB is always serious.

[Bill Wallace]

Doitzel and I have differing views on VE. He can't be right every time, it was his mistake to make.

So the way this reads to me is that you've had an axe to grind against VE even before this non-issue thus making your opinions on this matter tainted. That's too bad because I had a lot of respect for you and greatly enjoyed your TWiP threads despite the air of elitism that wafted from them which is something that usually turns me off. Too bad indeed.

And to also see the The Big Bad/Joke poke her head into any thread where she can get her rabbit punches in on VE is always entertaining. Please don't stop darl'n because you've got some time to make up for while you were gone.

[erikz]

Schattenmann, I like you, but could you please stop your attention whoring?

[Shurukian]

This was very entertaining. I enjoyed reading it. The player opinions certainly gave me a chuckle.

I don't see the point in bawwing that this was biased or whatever. It's on the forums, deal with it. Take it as truth or fiction or let it alone. I doubt that if you scream bias or bad intent that Schattenmann will fall over sideways apologizing and cry himself to sleep. It was entertaining, and that's all I, and most of Bob, really care about.

[Bill Wallace]

This was very entertaining. I enjoyed reading it. The player opinions certainly gave me a chuckle.

I don't see the point in bawwing that this was biased or whatever. It's on the forums, deal with it. Take it as truth or fiction or let it alone. I doubt that if you scream bias or bad intent that Schattenmann will fall over sideways apologizing and cry himself to sleep. It was entertaining, and that's all I, and most of Bob, really care about.

I agree with you. But I do reserve the right to interject my thoughts on any matter that concerns my alliance which is filled with a great group of people who would do anything for each other. Good ol' boy Schatt is painting a picture of VE as imperialists in the same light as what many considered NPO to once be and anyone who knows VE knows that the artist known as Schattenmann is incorrect. Maybe when your alliance is the subject of derision by a self appointed judge and jury, you'll understand.

[nutkase]

Good god I am at a loss. Are you really that interested?

GTFO mah alliance politics now please, ty.

SRS BSNS: OV is not going to allow outside influence to affect our internal policy no matter what pressures are present. End of story on this one, you can keep talking but we will keep resolving, thanks.

:lol1:

Wow, I laughed so hard I think I cried a little. I think you should read back to yourself what you just wrote

[Shurukian]

I agree with you. But I do reserve the right to interject my thoughts on any matter that concerns my alliance which is filled with a great group of people who would do anything for each other. Good ol' boy Schatt is painting a picture of VE as imperialists in the same light as what many considered NPO to once be and anyone who knows VE knows that the artist known as Schattenmann is incorrect. Maybe when your alliance is the subject of derision by a self appointed judge and jury, you'll understand.

It has been, many times, and I've realized that people will believe what they want. He put it out there, the best way to react with it is to laugh with it. The second you get all upset about it, you paint some sort of legitimacy to it. Laughing with it just makes it funny, and lighthearted.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Shurukian

[Heyman]

Great job on this, Schatt. Mission Accomplished.

[Goldie]

there was no misinformation about this from ve's end. if you have any specific questions about what happened and why, shoot me a pm on the cn boards or find me on irc and i might be able to help clear some of the air if people are still confused.

this was simply a case of VE assisting our brothers in OV in dealing with a sensitive issue.

facts:

-tito knew he needed to hold elections for his job, but refused to hold them.

-tito offered to present screenshots from OV's government forums, and then private forums, to other alliances.

-tito was removed because OV government wanted him removed, because of the treasonous acts . i personally loathe tito and think one of the saddest days in my history in cn was when i saw him become gov there, but it was OV gov who made the decision to pull the trigger, and although people are interpreting their charter in dozens of different ways, OV gov believes that it was a removal through a legitimate charter mechanism. once tito didnt hold the required elections for his position after the 3 months were up, he was no longer considered a minister.

zenergy was punished for a few reasons, but the main one is because he removed petar's admin mask. schat, do you doubt the legitimacy of petar's government spot? if someone removed my admin mask on ve's boards and then left the alliance, youd better believe theyd be in trouble with the rest of VE. im sure the same would happen if any alliance admin did the same to another. why then, when it happens to an OV gov member, it is considered ok? there is no charter provision for what zenergy did to petar, especially as you are resigning. if zenergy simply had restored titos admin, OV would probably have been rip!@#$, and may have gone to GUN to release him, but i can assure you that it would be much less severe than it was now. because if zenergy had just done that, it would have been easier (but not a whole lot more) to believe his lies that he didnt know tito was being removed, and was just reinstating him to his position. but when you remove petar, you show that you are actually trying to make it so OV government can not operate their own forums, and when you remove petar and add tito, you are executing a coup. that is why OV went to GUN about zenergy, and that is why zenergy must be punished. VE's role was to help fix the mess that this situation created, and help ensure OV got the justice it felt it deserved.

-

[sethb]

snip

-

I do believe you are wasting your breath.

Edited October 20, 2009 by sethb

[Heyman]

this was simply a case of VE assisting our brothers in OV in dealing with a sensitive issue.

Interesting.

[Haflinger]

I don't think soldiers have anything to do with tech deals, bub.

They should.

Let it be known to all hopeful tech sellers out there that, on request, I will throw in free soldiers along with the money in return for tech.

[Coursca]

I, unfortunately, find myself sitting in the same handbasket that TBB is sitting in. As much as I want to bash and point and laugh at Schatt I cannot. Your prognostications are spot on, and ruins MY fun as well.

/me hands tbb a bag of popcorn. This could be interesting.

I'm gonna hop on the FinsterBaby and TBB bandwagon, but for a different reason.

I have a healthy amount of respect for Schattenmann -- he was a worthy adversary.

Here's to random sampling. *raises his glass*

EDIT: Blah...'y' key is sticking.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Coursca

[Poyplemonkeys]

<snip>

So 'coups' against Tito are cool, but 'coups' against Petar are not? This whole post just stinks of double standards. Tito did something Petar didn't think was right so he removed his admin rights and VE has a party. Petar does something Zen doesn't think is right, ie: removing the rights of a legitimate member of government so Zen removes his admin rights. VE kicks up a fuss and supports OV in requesting his expulsion from his new alliance so he can be attacked by OV.

Am I right in thinking less than 3 months ago the Ordo Verde charter changed from the one that was used during Sethb's reign as emporer to one that covered the use of a triumvirate? Yet Tito was still expected to uphold the elections on a date stated by a charter that wasn't even in use anymore?

Edited October 20, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys

[silentkiller]

there was no misinformation about this from ve's end. if you have any specific questions about what happened and why, shoot me a pm on the cn boards or find me on irc and i might be able to help clear some of the air if people are still confused.

this was simply a case of VE assisting our brothers in OV in dealing with a sensitive issue.

facts:

-tito knew he needed to hold elections for his job, but refused to hold them.

-tito offered to present screenshots from OV's government forums, and then private forums, to other alliances.

-tito was removed because OV government wanted him removed, because of the treasonous acts . i personally loathe tito and think one of the saddest days in my history in cn was when i saw him become gov there, but it was OV gov who made the decision to pull the trigger, and although people are interpreting their charter in dozens of different ways, OV gov believes that it was a removal through a legitimate charter mechanism. once tito didnt hold the required elections for his position after the 3 months were up, he was no longer considered a minister.

zenergy was punished for a few reasons, but the main one is because he removed petar's admin mask. schat, do you doubt the legitimacy of petar's government spot? if someone removed my admin mask on ve's boards and then left the alliance, youd better believe theyd be in trouble with the rest of VE. im sure the same would happen if any alliance admin did the same to another. why then, when it happens to an OV gov member, it is considered ok? there is no charter provision for what zenergy did to petar, especially as you are resigning. if zenergy simply had restored titos admin, OV would probably have been rip!@#$, and may have gone to GUN to release him, but i can assure you that it would be much less severe than it was now. because if zenergy had just done that, it would have been easier (but not a whole lot more) to believe his lies that he didnt know tito was being removed, and was just reinstating him to his position. but when you remove petar, you show that you are actually trying to make it so OV government can not operate their own forums, and when you remove petar and add tito, you are executing a coup. that is why OV went to GUN about zenergy, and that is why zenergy must be punished. VE's role was to help fix the mess that this situation created, and help ensure OV got the justice it felt it deserved.

-

One member of the gov decided that the other two were wrong. k.

Edited October 20, 2009 by silentkiller

[Meer Republic]

Excellent work Schatt, will the Institute be taking commissions?

[Kzoppistan]

facts:

-tito knew he needed to hold elections for his job, but refused to hold them.

Fact:

The way to remove a Council Member in OV is like this:

• Article Three: Subsection Two - The removal of a Council member from office must be ratified by a majority of 2/3rds of Council Members, as well as a majority vote of 3/5ths of Senate.

Any other method is a violation of the charter.

-tito offered to present screenshots from OV's government forums, and then private forums, to other alliances.

What were they screen shots of? So far, the only one's I've heard about were of Seth, a non gov member, refusing to give the IRC chan back. If so, that's not spying, that's building a case.

-tito was removed because OV government wanted him removed

How much of the government? Because if it was just one person and there wasn't a vote, then the laws of OV were broken by the person who removed Tito's access.

i personally loathe tito and think one of the saddest days in my history in cn was when i saw him become gov there

If other's in VE share your sentiment, then that probably explains quite a bit

but it was OV gov who made the decision to pull the trigger, and although people are interpreting their charter in dozens of different ways, OV gov believes that it was a removal through a legitimate charter mechanism.

You mean the one guy out of three that's retained his spot? And which legitimate charter mechanism did he use?

once tito didnt hold the required elections for his position after the 3 months were up, he was no longer considered a minister.

Can you point to anything in their laws that say that?

zenergy was punished for a few reasons, but the main one is because he removed petar's admin mask. schat, do you doubt the legitimacy of petar's government spot? if someone removed my admin mask on ve's boards and then left the alliance, youd better believe theyd be in trouble with the rest of VE.

What if you just committed an illegal action, like Petar?

Frankly, Zenergy removing the admin access from everyone involved doesn't sound like the most terrible of things. In fact, if you look at it from his perspective, you have one of the council members break the charter rules to remove the access of the other minister. You have another guy masked that shouldn't be, and you want to get the hell out. Better unmasked both since they seem guilty and youself on the way out. It's not like the forum couldn't be accessed by the owner.

The way it looks is that OV and VE are scapegoating one person out of the whole mess and by doing so attempting to legitimize their and your actions, despite the fact that Petar was the real first offender.

Look, just be honest about how it happened. VE supported and approved of a member in the gov violating their charter to remove another gov because they felt that person was doing harm to the alliance. While unfortunate, and a bit distasteful, that is not the worst of crimes, and though some people would decry such actions, many people would understand your motivations and agree with them.

But nobody likes being lied to.

The more you keep attempting to legitimize your actions, the worse it's going to look. Just state what you did and why you did and let people fight over whether you were right are not.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Kzoppistan