Il Impero Romano Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) I don't think soldiers have anything to do with tech deals, bub. Well gee, I'm sure no one will find anything wrong with his aid offer anyway, as you use to run OV and you are Satan incarnate so anything he does must be warranted. I think that was an option in the poll come to think of it. Edited October 20, 2009 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethb Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Well gee, I'm sure no one will find anything wrong with his aid offer anyway, as you use to run OV and you are Satan incarnate so anything he does must be warranted.I think that was an option in the poll come to think of it. Anything he does must be alright because he is the great Schattenman. Surely not some washed up Voxian who is trying to invent a conspiracy to seem important. Edited October 20, 2009 by sethb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teriethien Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 This is very interesting, the Justitian Institute should conduct regular polls like this in the future. Lends a bit more credance to the view that the drama was caused by different interpretations of the charter I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Schatt as much as I love to come out and bash on you, in this instance I find you to be completely on target. This of course ruins my fun. OV has been had and I am not sure if Sethb is playing VE for suckers or the other way around. What I do know is, this is a complete cluster and good clue on why a bigger alliance should not go messing around in the internal affairs of their allies just because they can and because they think they can get something out of it. Edited October 20, 2009 by The Big Bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Alright, headed to the green room after broadcast, now I'm back for some more in depth replying. Judging from your above quoted statement, the information in the OP is almost certainly false, as you portray it as responses from actual OV members and are proclaiming to the world that these are their words and opinions on the particular issues at hand, when in fact the responses: 1) could be from anyone and 2) inferring from past behaviors, it can be said that they almost positively are from anyone but members of OV. Unless people that Vilien gave the link and password to took the survey (and there's a chance they did), then all responses are from OV members. As the screenshot I posted shows, all 23 members of OV were spammed a link and the password, all but a couple read the message between the 18th and today, and 14 of them took the survey. edit: In fact, I had to edit the OP in the middle of writing it because the 14th respondent filled the survey out while I was writing it. Its amazing you have the nerve to say that Delta said anything dumb while at the same time posting this, or is it a joke topic? Delta says dumb stuff all the time, so it was a safe bet. Just kidding, when I characterized Delta's question as dumb, I was beign sarcastic. If I really thought it was dumb and not worth time, I wouldn't have made a survey. Sure, jokes are funny har har and all that, but honestly man your putting words into the mouths of an alliances members now... See above. Even considering the password leak, the respondents were overwhlemingly OV members. Ironically, the only way I could be putting words into OV members mouths is if I mistakenly attributed a tainted response to an OV member in good faith. Well in that case, why even inculde the compromised results rather then the responses of those indivudals? It is impossible to differentiate and possibly fraudulent responses from legitimate responses because the survey is anonymous. To verify reponses, I'd have to track IPs of respondents, then compare them to member IPs from OV's forum. I guaranteed anonymity, and I would not compromise the faith of respondents to any end. Also, like I said, I would be very interested in your response to many of the explanations and fact based points in the other thread on this issue, as you have become entirely absent...some of us have been having a rather respectful and productive conversation the past few pages. This seems to be an issue you hold close to your heart, judging from the time and effort you put into it, so I feel the least you can do is address some of the realities behind the situation that have come to the surface, as the absence of that makes it seem as though your just board. I've pretty much already said everything that needs to be said in the other thread. Nothing that has been posted in the past two pages really requires response from me. I understand the overwhelming desire to demonize us, as we have shown ourselves these past months to be truly horrible people, just ask your former comrades in our protectorate TJO...they would agree with you, right? Doitzel and I have differing views on VE. He can't be right every time, it was his mistake to make. Finally, I'm sure Zenergy appreciates your aid while at war, but I was wondering if there is some other explanation for it aside from attention grabbing and an attempt to create drama, a standing tech deal perhaps? The aid sent to Zenergy was sent before anyone attacked him, and it was exactly what it looks like and what the aid screen says: "Moral support." Edited October 20, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Schatt as much as I love to come out and bash on you, in this instance I find you to be completely on target. This of course ruins my fun. We're dancing in the New World. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finster Baby Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Schatt as much as I love to come out and bash on you, in this instance I find you to be completely on target. This of course ruins my fun. OV has been had and I am not sure if Sethb is playing VE for suckers or the other way around. What I do know is, this is a complete cluster and good clue on why a bigger alliance should not go messing around in the internal affairs of their allies just because they can and because they think they can get something out of it. I, unfortunately, find myself sitting in the same handbasket that TBB is sitting in. As much as I want to bash and point and laugh at Schatt I cannot. Your prognostications are spot on, and ruins MY fun as well. /me hands tbb a bag of popcorn. This could be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Don't ever change Schattenmannnn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Alright, headed to the green room after broadcast, now I'm back for some more in depth replying.Unless people that Vilien gave the link and password to took the survey (and there's a chance they did), then all responses are from OV members. As the screenshot I posted shows, all 23 members of OV were spammed a link and the password, all but a couple read the message between the 18th and today, and 14 of them took the survey. edit: In fact, I had to edit the OP in the middle of writing it because the 14th respondent filled the survey out while I was writing it. 5 of my members say that they also took the survey that was linked on IRC, yet are you still suggesting your results are in any way valid? Delta says dumb stuff all the time, so it was a safe bet. Just kidding, when I characterized Delta's question as dumb, I was beign sarcastic. If I really thought it was dumb and not worth time, I wouldn't have made a survey. I don't see the sarcasm, I see a personal insult and an over inflated ego. See above. Even considering the password leak, the respondents were overwhlemingly OV members. Ironically, the only way I could be putting words into OV members mouths is if I mistakenly attributed a tainted response to an OV member in good faith. ...Or you are factoring responses in from those who are not in OV. It is impossible to differentiate and possibly fraudulent responses from legitimate responses because the survey is anonymous. To verify reponses, I'd have to track IPs of respondents, then compare them to member IPs from OV's forum. I guaranteed anonymity, and I would not compromise the faith of respondents to any end. If you cannot gaurentee legitimate results, then what point is there in this aside from grandstanding? You admit the likelihood of false responses, and then at the same time sit there and claim these are the opinions of OV. Still however, OV retains their members, but according to your poll they should be running for the hills? I'm sorry, but where I'm from we deal in certainties and things that can be seen as logically reasonable, but OV's members staying in the alliance directly contradicts with your results from this admittedly compromised poll. I've pretty much already said everything that needs to be said in the other thread. Nothing that has been posted in the past two pages really requires response from me. No, it really does if you wish to continue this "crusade". You say it does not require your response, and I'm calling you out and saying that you just don't have a response now that the matter has passed from the realm of speculation into that of facts and reason. Doitzel and I have differing views on VE. He can't be right every time, it was his mistake to make. Right, so then can you explain why you have such a blind contempt? I remember you were always big on supporting your opinions with examples rather then conclusions, so I'm sure you can do the same here, and I would be very interested to see your reasoning. The aid sent to Zenergy was sent before anyone attacked him, and it was exactly what it looks like and what the aid screen says: "Moral support." ...And after it was made public that he was released from GUN and would be attacked by OV. Why don't you aid Tito too? That obviously falls in line with your extremely important, logically sound, and well thought out moral crusade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 This is very interesting, the Justitian Institute should conduct regular polls like this in the future.Lends a bit more credance to the view that the drama was caused by different interpretations of the charter I guess. The one thing that really did stick out was the contradictory nature of the response. With some fine-tuning, I hope to do some more of this. Don't ever change Schattenmannnn Whenever I see that shaving baby, or rather that baby shaving itself, I smile and think how awesome MFO is. Anything he does must be alright because he is the great Schattenman. Surely not some washed up Voxian who is trying to invent a conspiracy to seem important. You got me there! Look, I'm ancient, I'm timeless, the Shadow is outside of time and its vessel is granted eternity. I have seen you in your conception, and known you before you knew yourself. I am the Shadowman, my vision penetrates. I have ever been as I ever will be, my longevity is undeniable and my words ring the same throughout history without regard to the passing movements of men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryne Farrior Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 You calculated percentages for 14 respondents? Seems kinda silly to me. It's almost like you used unnecessary number data to draw intentionally misleading conclusions. Good luck with yer next poll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm quite amused by all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) You calculated percentages for 14 respondents? Seems kinda silly to me. It's almost like you used unnecessary number data to draw intentionally misleading conclusions.Good luck with yer next poll! The next thing you know he will be couping his allies and telling them its for their own good. It never ends with him. Edited October 20, 2009 by The Big Bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilien Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 The next thing you know he will be couping his allies and telling them its for their own good. It never ends with him. It's a slippery slope, dammit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 5 of my members say that they also took the survey that was linked on IRC, yet are you still suggesting your results are in any way valid? I think it's pretty clear from this entire thread that I do not believe they are valid to the point of presenting as valid. I do believe that VE has once more demonstrated its inability to stay out of OV's internal affairs, which is what an opinion poll is. ...Or you are factoring responses in from those who are not in OV. Of course I am factorign in responses that are not from OV, because VE goonrushed the survey. If you cannot gaurentee legitimate results, then what point is there in this aside from grandstanding? You admit the likelihood of false responses, and then at the same time sit there and claim these are the opinions of OV. Still however, OV retains their members, but according to your poll they should be running for the hills? I'm sorry, but where I'm from we deal in certainties and things that can be seen as logically reasonable, but OV's members staying in the alliance directly contradicts with your results from this admittedly compromised poll. Neither my poll or analysis do not say that "members of OV should be running for the hills" that's your freudian slip. Right, so then can you explain why you have such a blind contempt? I remember you were always big on supporting your opinions with examples rather then conclusions, so I'm sure you can do the same here, and I would be very interested to see your reasoning. Maybe I disagreed with Doitzel's choice of protector because I'm super smart and know that VE pulls crap like you've been pulling all week and I don't want TJO to get screwed with by VE. I mean seriously, we're talkign about the alliance that threatened Vox Populi/Electron Sponge with lawsuits. ...And after it was made public that he was released from GUN and would be attacked by OV. Why don't you aid Tito too? That obviously falls in line with your extremely important, logically sound, and well thought out moral crusade I wouldn't aid Tito because Tito is at war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) You calculated percentages for 14 respondents? Seems kinda silly to me. It's almost like you used unnecessary number data to draw intentionally misleading conclusions.Good luck with yer next poll! You're right; I should have expressed all the percentages as fractions . SurveyMonkey calculates percentages automatically. We use percentages in reporting survey results because the survey sample is projected to the population as a whole. Saying "7 out of 14 respondents" is not the same as saying "50% of Verdeans." Edited October 20, 2009 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fingolfin Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) Haha, well played my friend. An entertaining read as to be expected. The results were needless to say...disturbing to an extent. But I guess inactivity breeds lack of knowledge. Good luck to OV Edited October 20, 2009 by Lord Fingolfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 You're right; I should have expressed all the percentages as fractions . SurveyMonkey calculates percentages automatically. We use percentages in reporting survey results because the survey sample is projected to the population as a whole. Saying "7 out of 14 respondents" is not the same as saying "50% of Verdeans." So I'm curious to know the margin of error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polisofboy Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 schat should do an expose of league of boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 So I'm curious to know the margin of error Too lazy, do it yourself: http://americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html Whatever that spits out at you, make sure you add 35% if Impero's statement that 5 Viridians took the survey is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) If this thread and its contents are meant to be thinly veiled commentary about polling accuracy both in CN and RL, I'm heartily amused. If not... I'm still heartily amused. Edit: Italics are fun. Edited October 20, 2009 by Aurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin McDonald Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 16.75 (+35%) Doesn't say, so I'll assume 19 times out of 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryne Farrior Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 You're right; I should have expressed all the percentages as fractions . SurveyMonkey calculates percentages automatically. We use percentages in reporting survey results because the survey sample is projected to the population as a whole. Saying "7 out of 14 respondents" is not the same as saying "50% of Verdeans." I understand, boyo. I still think it's shoddy reporting... unless it's satirical, in which case it's hilarious. Maybe I've been spoiled by the "screen shots with funny anecdotes" schtick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I understand, boyo. I still think it's shoddy reporting... unless it's satirical, in which case it's hilarious.Maybe I've been spoiled by the "screen shots with funny anecdotes" schtick. I'm glad we're on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Logan Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Lot of work, fun read, but would have been more so had this issue not already been beaten to death. Just let it die. I now return you to your normally scheduled broadcast: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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