How do I make money? (Not: how do I GET money.)

[Roland Moonstar]

Hi. I'm a brand new player. As you can see if you look, I just joined earlier today.

I won't pretend I have figured much of this out, but I was able on my own to at least experiment around, buy myself some infrastructure, pay my bills, get taxes and a few other basic things.

What I can't figure out is how my own personal nation itself makes money, and how to make more of it.

Yes, I have 25 messages in my Inbox promising me money, tech, and various trades and things but I play Warcraft and I don't want to just be one of those guys who joins a guild so he can grab hand-me-downs and elite gear and stuff from more seasoned players, or in this case older nation. I don't want to just be some leech.

If that means it takes me a few extra days to get going, that's okay. What I want to know is how to best optimize my own particular country so that it goes on the road to becoming another Switzerland or Cayman Islands.

In my opinion, everyone playing a game like this should have a goal, such as to be the strongest nation, the one with the most trades, the one in the biggest military alliance, and so forth. I've decided that my goal is to be a financial powerhouse, and that means not just relying on other nations, but on generating bucks internally.

-- Roland

[Locke]

You really gotta rely on foreign aid to get going in this game, it's immensely helpful at early stages. Take it when you can get it. If you don't want to just take aid, go for tech deals. Most deals these days are 50% profit, a fair bargain for both sides. That will help you accumulate the money you need to build up your infra, which is how you will be able to generate your own money.

[Hippy]

Tech deals, are a key component to success. They benefit the seller and buyer nation. You get paid to buy technology for a nation cheaper than what they can buy it for. The more tech you own, the more it costs. No leeching to it.

Purchase infrastructure until you have enough citizens to buy improvements (1000 citizens each), I recommend a harbor first. The people at SNAFU can set you straight on that if you'd like. Just let me know and I'll get you the forum link.

Edit: Or just click my signature, I forgot I had that.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Warmongrel

[Roland Moonstar]

"tech deals" answers the frequently asked question "how do I GET money?"

It didn't answer my question, "How do I internally MAKE money?"

I may have to pursue tech deals as a means to the end of making my own money, but that's not really what I was asking.

Please keep this thread open until I get an answer discussing internal matters, such as infrastructure, in relation to internal income generation. Thank you.

[Hippy]

Well to make money internally you'd generally want to increase your nations population and happiness. Setting its government positions, defcon, threat level, government, and religion has some effect on your happiness. Infra, infra, infra answers population. Some improvements can help also when you become big enough to purchase them.

[Yggdrazil]

The first improvement should be a Harbor(Purchased when you get 1000 tax paying citizens not total population).Then a good trade circle with them all from you own color.Each resource carries bonuses to income, upkeep, or population.A good trade circle with income bonuses or population bonuses will increase you income.Any thing which will increase you happiness(Found next to the face icon on your nation page which will highlight and give you a number if you click and drag till it's revealed).Religion and government choices with your peoples preference will add happiness. However some government choice add a +1 to happiness and can be used instead of the preferential.Early you can experiment with tax rate and perhaps increase happiness enough to offset the lost from a higher tax rate.That will end quickly and 28% will be your rate until you buy the wonder that let's you increase it to 30%.

However keeping yourself unaligned with none as your alliance affiliation will make you a target.There are raiders after land and tech.Joining a guild as you put it is in your nations interest, all have guilds and help.For example these questions would have a forum guide in an alliance sight that would maximize your pursuit of your goal.

Going it along, will make your goal allusive and unattainable.Find an alliance that have the intangible properties you admire: for most have new player help and methods for aid and the differences between them is negligible.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Yggdrazil

[Louisa]

"tech deals" answers the frequently asked question "how do I GET money?"

It didn't answer my question, "How do I internally MAKE money?"

Apart from all the other advice, you make money by doing the above in a circular motion I mean, get money from some country that wants to buy your Technology, spend the profit on Infrastructure (which gives more taxpayers in your country), and keep going. Keep all your Aid Slots full with Technology deals all the time and you will have lots of profit to build up your own country.

Plus trading for good resources, building good Improvements, etc.

When you just start, you really do want to join a Alliance (even if the awful recruitment spam hardly helps to find a good Alliance in my opinion; stay awake from cake offers! ). If you do not, you will soon be attacked and raided and your nice country becomes a burning pile of junk. Try to go around the forum here and see if some Alliance sounds like good people for you, plus check the game wiki when you have time; that can help (just remember, all Alliances boast about themself so treat this as advertisements...)

Good luck, and I wish you much fun and success

[energizer]

^^^^ speaks the truth.

This game is unfortunately not equipped to handle national economics on a more advanced scale. Rather the only way to make money is to pay bills, buy infra, collect, repeat. I must say it gets old after a few months.

Otherwise, tech deals are your best option for being under 3,000 infra. Also, be sure to join an alliance (a established one with at least 2 million NS, dont go by how big their pocket book is), it is in essence a requirement as tech raiding is a fun hobby for many alliances.

If you would like assistance on picking the right alliance, ill be sure to help (all alliances are somewhat different from how they setup their gov, their stance on wars, etc...)

[Kippa Tarxien]

Contrary to the above, we handle national economics on a more advanced scale.

If you want to be a financial powerhouse, here's one way to make a difference: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Synergia/index.php?showtopic=13

Check out how you can make 60...70% more buying power, compared to the best "traditional" growing techniques.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Kippa Tarxien

[Allan a Dale]

Please keep this thread open until I get an answer discussing internal matters, such as infrastructure, in relation to internal income generation. Thank you.

Then this belongs in Gameplay Discussions. Moving.

[JoshuaR]

Dear Roland,

Every nation is the same in regards to ability and future potential, except in its resources. For example, I have gold and water, which is on the lower end, but still alright. The reason? Because the best way to Make money is to have a good trade set. With gold and water, I cannot obtain the "best" trade sets in the game.

Your resources are essentially on par with my own with fish/silver. Now, unless you plan to "reroll" (delete your nation, create a new one, for the purposes of "rolling" better resources), and you don't really have to, here's the basic idea.

1. Choose a trading sphere/team color. You are currently on No Team/Gray Team. As such, you have access to far fewer trading partners, so you will find that filling "ideal" trade sets is more difficult. Even more importantly, when you trade with a member of your own team, you will gain a +1 happiness bonus for each trade. +1 happiness equates to +$2 in basic income, and as you buy improvements, each happiness gain will give you +$2*modifier, so to Make more money, you Want more happiness. Thus, first of all, you should switch to a color sphere because you don't get that happiness bonus on gray. I recommend black, as it contains the most nations and thus makes it easiest to send and receive trades.

2. Now it's time to fill your trades. Remember, after switching to the black team, only trade with black nations to get the happiness bonus for each! If you intend solely to make money and minimize bill costs along the way, I recommend the 3BR (3 bonus resources) trade set, where your silver replaces gems as a wild card. This will turn out to be: fish, wheat, cattle, pigs, lumber, iron, aluminum, marble, water, silver, sugar, spices. Of course, if you do take the advice given in this thread to engage in tech deals (you should, and I will explain that later), then you may prefer a more infrastructure cost reducing resource set. Take a look at what MFO has to say on the matter: This is a public guide, so you can just view it at your leisure: http://www.mrfixitonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=25714

3. As you fill four trades, now you've got at least some efficiency going for you. Now is the time to buy enough infrastructure to gain 1000 citizens. With that requirement achieved, buy a harbor and now you gain access to one more trade. One more trade means two more resources, and possibly some bonus resources. The harbor is obviously the best improvement to buy. Now go ahead and fill that fifth trade.

4. In order to make money, your citizens need to be happy. If you have 0 land, perhaps you need to buy a quick fix to reduce your population density. With the resource water, buy enough land until the red warning goes away, and then you're alright. As others have said, adjust your tax rate for the highest collection (after just a few days, you'll get to the point where 28% is ideal). Set your government positions. Check that your government is aligned with what your citizens desire, or if that particular government seems to add an environment loss or in other cases isn't particularly good, choose something like monarchy, democracy, or capitalist... (just something with either happiness or environment bonuses, infra cost reduction is good...)

5. Now it will take quite a while to rise up the ranks on your own merit alone. The foreign aid screen is not necessarily used solely to gain handouts. It can also be a business. When others recommend tech selling/dealing, they mean that you buy 100 tech and send it over two consecutive aid packages to a nation like my own, where tech costs a million dollars a pop, or $100million for 100 tech. In return, I pay you $3million. A great deal for me, to be sure, but also a great deal for you. That tech costs you less than $1.5million total.

So again, contact large nations like my own, or use the trading harbor on these forums, to request a deal as follows: $3mil for 100 tech. Buyer sends you $3million. 10 days later, you send buyer 50 tech. Ten days later, you send another 50. End transaction. (Extra detail, always hold on hand 50 tech for increased collections. When you send an aid package, buy another 50. You'll have to buy it anyway, to send, might as well buy it early and take advantage.)

If you fill all four of your slots like this, you will earn $1.5ish mil each month for each slot, or about $6mil in a month. Far more than your small nation currently is able.

6. Improvements: now beyond the harbor, gov positions, and tech dealing, you can still make more money. As you buy infrastructure, you gain access to more improvements. Noting your tech deals, one stands out: the Foreign Ministry. Using this, you can open up another aid slot and make an extra $1.5mil each month. For further reference on improvements beyond the harbor and foreign ministry, check out this information: http://www.mrfixitonline.com/viewtopic.php?p=25003

7. Oh right, and for now, INFRA INFRA INFRA is the key. Infra gives you citizens, which means more money, which also means more improvements, which means more money. Don't waste money on tech besides for tech deals. Don't waste money on land except to keep your citizens happy. Don't buy a huge army, just buy a minimum 20-30% of citizens. Buy INFRA.

I hope that helps you make money, Roland. Like the others, I recommend joining an alliance, not for handouts, but for knowledge, camaraderie, and protection. If they like you and think you will improve their alliance by being bigger, faster, stronger; then they will give you the tools and cash you need to help them. It's not necessarily a handout if they hope you return the favor somehow. You can think of it as another business transaction.

Feel free to ask me any further questions. I'm also readily available at www.mrfixitonline.com/cybernations (my own alliance forum).

[Roland Moonstar]

Ok, thank you everyone. Now I have a much better grounding in the system. I appreciate all the extra time and effort you have all spent in posting. Considering the sheer numbers of posts, I was pleasantly surprised to find that no one simply duplicated or paraphrased anyone else, but rather everyone had something definite to contribute.

Thank you again.

[LiquidMercury]

3BR isn't the best trade circle, just the best one that requires no temp trading. Be a team player, temp trade the world and learn how to manage swapping 5BR for bills and infra purchases to FF only for collections to various military builds during war should you so desire (most people won't mess with their trades that much during war for certain reasons).

Also I encourage you to sell tech to me. I am always looking for active sellers as my need for tech is great.

Also I encourage you to get on IRC (irc.coldfront.net is the server most alliances have their rooms on) and converse and get to know the people in this game as it will make for a more pleasant experience. #paradox, #gremlins, #argent, #umbrella are rooms where you can find tech buyers and just generally awesome people.

[Roland Moonstar]

Okay, I joined a color (black.. I went through all the colors one by one and noticed that it did indeed have 10 pages while many others colors only had 6 or 8 pages of ranked players) and bought myself a Harbor.

Now that I know a bit about internal economics, I will go ahead and learn about trading resources. This part is I believe covered in the FAQs.

[lordoftheland]

Okay, I joined a color (black.. I went through all the colors one by one and noticed that it did indeed have 10 pages while many others colors only had 6 or 8 pages of ranked players) and bought myself a Harbor.

Now that I know a bit about internal economics, I will go ahead and learn about trading resources. This part is I believe covered in the FAQs.

You really are going to want to join an alliance and do it soon. You will be subject to multiple attacks by many nations to gain land, tech and $$$ from you. Black, Aqua and Blue are the biggest teams followed closely by Orange, Red trade sphere is generally protected by the NPO but due to the last great war........ if you join an alliance they generally have a web site and training program for you to go through and this covers all the economic issues you desire as well as general war guides, I know we have one and suspect most major alliances do. An alliance will also have a tech selling/buying system that you can sign up on and make cash that way.

Edited September 30, 2009 by lordoftheland

[Kippa Tarxien]

Now that I know a bit about internal economics, I will go ahead and learn about trading resources. This part is I believe covered in the FAQs.

Story of my youth.

In february 2008, I was told to join a trade circle to trade resources.

It took me four months before I realised that was a silly thing to do, if one wanted to let her nation grow fast.

So, in june 2008, I thought and thought for two days and then deleted all trades and from then on, every 18 (now 20) days, I swapped my trades from best infra/bills to AP + the citizen bonuses.

Then, 2 months ago, I was one of the founders of Synergia, the planet's only resource swapping alliance.

You're invited to join the alliance, or to join our swapping program.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Kippa Tarxien

[Pmac627]

Also, be sure to join an alliance (a established one with at least 2 million NS, dont go by how big their pocket book is), it is in essence a requirement as tech raiding is a fun hobby for many alliances.

Hey now, this is an unfair stab at smaller alliances. There are many established alliances smaller than 2 million NS that are better than a good bit of the established larger than 2 million NS alliances (though the same is vice versa). Choosing an alliance, as you also hinted, is a difficult process. Many rulers join alliances for the wrong reasons, then end up jumping around for months until they find one they enjoy. Yes, alliances are very important to keep you safe (mainly because peace mode stunts your growth a lot). You obviously seem to not be jumping after the usual bait many alliances use (AID AID AID). Talk to an alliance and their members/recruitment department. If you want shelter, but not to join them just yet, request permission to ghost their Alliance Affiliation (and promise to not tech raid or cause trouble) for a week or two. I've found this to be a good way at determining whether an alliance is interested in you, or if they are just interested in your stats.

I see you've visited the NOIR forums. This is a great place for you to find trades while you look for an alliance... plus there are 26+ alliances who you can interview. Also, you'd be surprised how many of them will go to bat for you with protection while you look for a home just by talking to them.

[Louisa]

You really are going to want to join an alliance and do it soon. You will be subject to multiple attacks by many nations to gain land, tech and $ from you.

Sadly, just making a thread here can bump you up on target lists of raiders.

If you are having trouble to quickly find a good Alliance (and I think it is unfair to try and push you in some direction), perhaps I can recommend the Citadel Trading Company for at least a time? It is not a "real" Alliance but a collection of merchants and Technology Dealers who receive business opportunities and protection (their "charter" and some other things is in the link).

I can also recommend to go on the IRC channels of what ever Alliance etc you like; people are generally friendly and willing to help give you advice and so on (ask for trades, etc).

Still, your country looks very nice so far and I hope it all works out great for you

[Mamazlilmistake]

NOOOOOO super fail. Use our guides and avoid making us all look retarded.

FoB FAIL

[JoshuaR]

Muahaha, my 7 Step, spur of the moment guide, trumps your long-standing collection of knowledge!