A Brief Announcement from the Orange Defense Network

[Lord Boris]

it's just a NAP... PC and TPF has shown in the last war the uselessness of NAPs...

not going to lose any sleep over this..

Actually, PC and TPF showed why people need to read carefully before they sign anything.

[HeroicDisaster]

You could just ban your members from posting in said threads.

So much class in this post. I should have expected it.

Edited September 26, 2009 by HeroicDisaster

[Twizzler]

I can go root around, but I know we wanted to cancel it. I think it was Joracy that convinced us to keep it.

Its not the first time I remember incorrectly

[Poobah]

I'm not sure what you mean on the opener. Do you honestly believe that there is something about becoming a member of the ODN that makes you gutless? Perhaps individually we may be alright, but united we are gutless? You're more than welcome to join us and do a research study on the phenomenon, though we'd have to request you come with a ball gag.

Please do not attempt to recruit valued members of the IRON community on the OWF.

As for part 2, I'd say that it's more that we have little interest in developing OUT at this time. Not much point in putting forth the effort when one of the key partners won't even provide an embassy to us, legitimate reasons or not. I'd say that's pretty much a statement that development of OUT is not an option. Ultimately we've always been committed to orange unity and will likely remain so, even if at the present time that seems like a pipe dream. We don't have a better option than OUT at this time to achieve that goal, so why move to leave it? If you and your alliance want us removed, you're more than welcome to have your citrus councillor put forth a motion and see where that goes.

Ok, I'm only going to say this once so please pay attention. IRON has no interest in removing you guys from OUT. Please, do not imply that we want to in any way, similarly as to how we have no intention of declaring war on you guys. Just because we choose to not open an embassy with you, does not mean that we both cannot work for the mutual benefit of the sphere. That is your choice. And BnT does raise a valid point..if you think that OUT is useless and we are major problems in the workings of it, then why are you still in it?

[Style #386]

words

It's people like you that make me especially confident that cutting the treaty was the right choice.

[Locke]

Its not the first time I remember incorrectly

Actually, I did too.

Yeah, just dug around and found it (finally <.<). Jor gave the initial 72 hours to you, then to Sunstar, then Sunstar floated the idea of a PIAT over, we agreed after discussion and made it so.

[Some-Guy]

Well, congratulations all around!

Cancelling treaties that hold no value can only mean good things for both parties.

If only we all were more like ODN, truly this world would be a better and more exciting place.

Onwards ODN!

Relentlessly and elegantly onwards!

[Tiggah]

Ok, I'm only going to say this once so please pay attention. IRON has no interest in removing you guys from OUT. Please, do not imply that we want to in any way, similarly as to how we have no intention of declaring war on you guys. Just because we choose to not open an embassy with you, does not mean that we both cannot work for the mutual benefit of the sphere. That is your choice. And BnT does raise a valid point..if you think that OUT is useless and we are major problems in the workings of it, then why are you still in it?

I know BnT loathes ODN from my time in Valhalla and he implied pretty clearly that we're holding on to OUT for the sole purpose of preventing you from attacking us, so you can bother him if the inference bothers you. As for whether you want us out of OUT or not, I don't know. You say you don't, but then your membership keeps asking why we're still in it as though you're either hoping or expecting us to leave. I never said OUT was useless, though I won't deny some in ODN think that it is. They're a loud minority at this point. It took forever to get the treaty to the point that it's at. It seems far more reasonable to me to hang on to it for a while and see if there are better days ahead, while we busy ourselves with other things.. It doesn't really prevent us from doing anything we'd want to do, so why move to axe it and force ourselves to start over down the road should things normalize?

I also don't think you, as in IRON, are the major problem in working on it. I feel that the relationship between IRON and ODN is the major problem and that comes from both sides. I like you guys for the most part and fought on your side in the Karma war. Hell, I've probably been aligned with IRON in major wars as often as I've been aligned with ODN. I can't say as though that feeling is felt throughout the ODN, but we certainly all don't hate you. There's going to be some trolling from both sides, and the trolls will use that to justify themselves, and reinstating our embassy would probably result in a whole bunch more trolling, so it's not like I don't understand the move, even if I don't agree with it. That said, if those of us that actually like and respect one another leave all the communication to the trolls, it's pretty obvious where this is going.

[Buds The Man]

Hey if nothing else this announcement brought out a couple of my favorite people. Good to see you Tiggah and BnT.

[scythegfx]

It's people like you that make me especially confident that cutting the treaty was the right choice.

I aim to please. =)

but at least I know an MDP is there for mutual defence. If one gets attacked, the other defends, the wording of the treaty doesnt matter to me, the spirit does. E-lawyering for the lose.

[Style #386]

I aim to please. =)

but at least I know an MDP is there for mutual defence. If one gets attacked, the other defends, the wording of the treaty doesnt matter to me, the spirit does. E-lawyering for the lose.

I believe we're talking about a PIAT being cut. Please do try to keep current.

[scythegfx]

Try reading the direction of the topic then. The past page or so has been on the topic of why the Invicta-ODN MDP was Cancelled.

But good job though.

[Elderago]

lines are being drawn, painted, etched, cut, glued and roughly hacked...or maybe not

good, luck to everyone

Edited September 26, 2009 by sircrimson

[Twizzler]

Try reading the direction of the topic then. The past page or so has been on the topic of why the Invicta-ODN MDP was Cancelled.

But good job though.

Actually it was about who spearheaded the effort to downgrade rather than cancel, which is very different.

But good job though.

[Style #386]

Try reading the direction of the topic then. The past page or so has been on the topic of why the Invicta-ODN MDP was Cancelled.

But good job though.

Well, go ahead and sue me for trying to keep things on-topic.

The reason we were given at the time was that you wanted to cut your "big military commitments" and "focus on CDT and purple". I fought against retaining any form of the treaty and I fought to cancel the remnant now. Given the lies we've apparently received from your camp, I'm glad.

And given that you've lied to a PIAT partner, don't you dare talk to me about the "spirit of a treaty".

Edited September 26, 2009 by Style #386

[scythegfx]

Actually it was about who spearheaded the effort to downgrade rather than cancel, which is very different.

But good job though.

Point being, the topic of the thread in the last page or so was the MDP. thanks for proving the poin, buddy.

Well, the reason we were given at the time was that you wanted to cut your "big military commitments" and "focus on CDT and purple". I fought against retaining any form of the treaty and I fought to cancel the remnant now. Given the lies we've apparently received from your camp, I'm glad. And given that you've lied to a PIAT partner, don't you dare talk to me about the "spirit of a treaty".

Also, go ahead and sue me for trying to keep things on-topic.

Hey man, What lies did we tell you? I wasn't involved in the ODN discussions. And I will talk to you about whatever the %^&$ I want. It's how I roll. [/internet Baddass]

[Twizzler]

Point being, the topic was the PIAT, and who decided to push for it. That has absolutely nothing to do with MDP. I'm not entirely sure how you can say the point of the topic was the MDP when we were talking about the PIAT. Not so sure how I proved your point.. because.. I didnt.

[Style #386]

You said "We are focusing on CDT", now you're saying "lol Optional Defense Network". That's a lie in my book. If that's "how you roll" (which implies pride in the action), then that's a rather pathetic reflection of the way you do business. Congrats, I suppose.

[scythegfx]

Point being, the topic was the PIAT, and who decided to push for it. That has absolutely nothing to do with MDP. I'm not entirely sure how you can say the point of the topic was the MDP when we were talking about the PIAT. Not so sure how I proved your point.. because.. I didnt.

Do you really want me to quote all the posts from Invicta and ODN members alike about that MDP? Because I can.

The topic was PIAT, yes. But the MDP got brought up and became a part of the discussion, as it was the precursor to that PIAT.

[Haflinger]

You said "We are focusing on CDT", now you're saying "lol Optional Defense Network". That's a lie in my book. If that's "how you roll" (which implies pride in the action), then that's a rather pathetic reflection of the way you do business. Congrats, I suppose.

If changing your mind about someone is lying, then I guess you're right.

[Style #386]

If changing your mind about someone is lying, then I guess you're right.

Changing one's mind =/= saying one thing and then saying another.

A for effort, though.

[erikz]

Please do not attempt to recruit valued members of the IRON community on the OWF.

Ok, I'm only going to say this once so please pay attention. IRON has no interest in removing you guys from OUT. Please, do not imply that we want to in any way, similarly as to how we have no intention of declaring war on you guys. Just because we choose to not open an embassy with you, does not mean that we both cannot work for the mutual benefit of the sphere. That is your choice. And BnT does raise a valid point..if you think that OUT is useless and we are major problems in the workings of it, then why are you still in it?

OUT's no more then a paper tiger (imho).

Oh wait, it was used by the signatory alliances to roll GLOF.

Edited September 26, 2009 by erikz

[scythegfx]

You said "We are focusing on CDT", now you're saying "lol Optional Defense Network". That's a lie in my book. If that's "how you roll" (which implies pride in the action), then that's a rather pathetic reflection of the way you do business. Congrats, I suppose.

you need to look up the definition of lie then my friend.

A change of opinion, for better or worse, of an alliance does not constitute a lie.

[scythegfx]

Changing one's mind =/= saying one thing and then saying another.

A for effort, though.

Please tell me that ODN Leadership is smarter than this.

THose statements were made months apart, in two totally different political climates.

[Twizzler]

Do you really want me to quote all the posts from Invicta and ODN members alike about that MDP? Because I can.

The topic was PIAT, yes. But the MDP got brought up and became a part of the discussion, as it was the precursor to that PIAT.

Do you want me to quote you? By saying the last page was talking about the MDP? Let's look at the first post on that page. Oh wait! That's me wondering who pushed the PIAT!!

Also, even if it was just a change of opinion, if you're current opinion is 'lol Optional Defense Network' why are you so butt hurt over this cancellation? Wouldn't this be a positive thing for you? If I were in your place, I would probably say 'K' and drop it rather than acting like a childish fool.