tLC's way of techraiding: teasing and destroying a nation

[TehChron]

Then why are they making a big fuss out of it? Why would they care? It changes nothing about our war your techraid, does it?

Wow. I'm actually laughing at the blatant hypocrisy/irony/dumbassery.

[WilliamDean]

A techraid is started to raid tech (like its says) and to make a profit

A war is meant to completely to try to destroy the opponent

No, a war is not always meant to completely destroy an opponent, it is usually merely meant to cause damage. Hence alliances usually getting peace terms within a few weeks. (Indeed, destroying an opponent completely is impossible short of visiting the ruler's house and cutting their internet cable). How does one successfully ground attack a nation without causing damage to that nation? By your logic, assulting somebody doesn't count as a violent attack as long as you did not attempt to kill them and only did it so you could steal their wallet.

If you attack random nations that have caused you no harm then you have no moral high ground at all when other nations decide they will attack you regardless of how flimsy their reasoning.

o/ 519 Nigras. Destroy this guy even more than you destroyed my old nation in the WotC

Edited September 22, 2009 by WilliamDean

[frederik]

FOK has allowed player Denniswerf to join FOK again, knowing that he is at war with 519 Nigras of the Liquor Cabinet. The reason for this decision is the agreement between the two of keeping this a 1 on 1 war. FOK will not meddle in this war. Should either of the two feel the need to continue the war after 7 days, they are free to do so as long as the aforementioned agreement is kept. Also Denniswerf always eats his veggies, which is good. However the outcome of this war, may both benefit from it in the end.

[jer]

Then can you tell me why exactly you decided to destroy a random none? Just because he is a none?

I am already getting bored of you acting like none of this is your fault. You have been around long enough to know that Planet Bob (for better or for worse) is not a friendly place for those who try to strike out on their own, and yet despite this you a) made a huge show of forming GOWAB (an organisation which had no protector, which is basically inviting attacks) and b) took a ridiculously hard-line stance in negotiations - you must've known that you would never get back the full $30m and yet when you were turned down you decided to nuke your attacker instead of making concessions or just cutting your losses and backing down. You made your bed, now please stop blaming everyone else for your mistakes and just lie down.

[Denniswerf]

Really? I mean, REALLY?

Yes, I am really curious. Me joining FOK has 0% influence on this techraid you started, so there is nothing to make a fuss about.

Because we still have rounds 2 and 3 left.

Dude, you are almost out of money... You really expect to hang on your nation for rounds 2 and 3? It really doesnt serve any purpose for you. I undertand you will not back out of this war since the community may concider you a coward, but there is a difference between being a coward and being smart enough when you should stop

It's my money, I would simply be making a withdrawal.

Wait.. We both agreed to keep this war 1 on 1. Now you are telling me you are gonna accept money as AID? So much for our agreement

Myself? well, looking at the mechanics, you can only declare war. your intent to "profit" or "destroy" really is irrelevant. in the end, the only way to "profit" is to "destroy..." so there you go. Those that tech raid with guidlines/rules of 2GAs then Peace, while somewhat lenient, are still damaging, and war is war.

If Nigras had declared on me, did some GA's and offered peace after that I would have accepted it. GA's are an essentional part of techraiding

I am already getting bored of you acting like none of this is your fault. You have been around long enough to know that Planet Bob (for better or for worse) is not a friendly place for those who try to strike out on their own, and yet despite this you a) made a huge show of forming GOWAB (an organisation which had no protector, which is basically inviting attacks) and B) took a ridiculously hard-line stance in negotiations - you must've known that you would never get back the full $30m and yet when you were turned down you decided to nuke your attacker instead of making concessions or just cutting your losses and backing down. You made your bed, now please stop blaming everyone else for your mistakes and just lie down.

I have been round long enough, that was why I am surprised Nigras was spying on me and tLC handled it like that. I have been in FOK alliance for a long time, I have been in Valhalla for a while too. In FOK I have been deputy MoEA, I have been a diplomat, I have been a MoEA, etc. I will never say that planet Bob is a friendly place. BUT, I have been raised well in this game.

GOWAB was meant to bring some tentions in planet Bob. Just randomly attacking wasn't what GOWAB was essentional about. It was for more then that. A few goals of them were

- to make it so alliance members had an hard time knowing if their alliance members are friends or actually (GOWAB) enemy's. So to bring tentions

- to use people in the different alliances to start interalliance wars, to provoke

and in the end I would have given GOWAB members the command to attack on a nation that was actually also a secret GOWAB member . GOWAB would have destroyed itself in the end . But I didn't put enough effort in it to actually start it up the right way.

And about the 30mil: I made it VERY clear that I would nuke the person that was spying on me. I knew I wouldn't get the 30mil back. But they didn't make any offer... They could have offered me 200tech or so. I didn't even get an excuse from Nigras. I did contact tLC before declaring, I did give them time to discuss. Their alliance gov is responsible for the actions of their members and Nigras only provoked me in all his mails

Edited September 22, 2009 by Denniswerf

[HurricaneLOL]

Luckily I am in a techraid and not in a war

It didn't work for IS, it won't work for you, just give it up.

[TehChron]

Yes, I am really curious. Me joining FOK has 0% influence on this techraid you started, so there is nothing to make a fuss about.

Dude, you are almost out of money... You really expect to hang on your nation for rounds 2 and 3? It really doesnt serve any purpose for you. I undertand you will not back out of this war since the community may concider you a coward, but there is a difference between being a coward and being smart enough when you should stop

My word...You are an idiot. Do you actually have any perspective on how you sound, or do you simply do whatever you can to draw individuals attention? You're like a human train wreck....I mean, don't you have any shame or self-respect or anything?

At least lolpink does it in a way that could be conceived as successful, you just fail on all fronts.

[ragingchaos]

Did I miss the entire agreement of keeping this 1 on 1? I was under the impression that I told you that going nuke rogue would be dealt with Maybe I am just to dumb to understand such simple statements

I see you like drawing all the attention to yourself and now you are bringing multiple alliances....interesting.

Dennis, why do you feel the need to be such a drama queen?

[Denniswerf]

I mean, don't you have any shame or self-respect or anything?

Dude, this ain't life: this is a game! Get over it, don't take it all seriously! Read everything with a smile, make jokes, whatever. No need to insult, is there?

Did I miss the entire agreement of keeping this 1 on 1? I was under the impression that I told you that going nuke rogue would be dealt with Maybe I am just to dumb to understand such simple statements

I see you like drawing all the attention to yourself and now you are bringing multiple alliances....interesting.

Ehrrr, I am under attack by a member of your alliance. I am the victim of a techraid, you have some guts calling me a rogue. Weren't you tLC government? Can you please tell me the tLC description of

- a techraid and its purpose

- a war and its purpose

- an alliance (what requirments are there? Like member count, NS count, do they need a wikipedia, where do they have to make an announcement?)

- a rogue (are that nations that defend itself against a tLC techraider?)

Dennis, why do you feel the need to be such a drama queen?

I couldn't care less about how you think about me. I made this thread to inform planet Bob about your aggressive member and the reason why I in the end had to declare. To prevent escalation and as a side effect to start a discussion about using spy attacks to destroy a nation by calling it 'techraid'

Edited September 22, 2009 by Denniswerf

[ragingchaos]

Ehrrr, I am under attack by a member of your alliance. I am the victim of a techraid, you have some guts calling me a rogue. Weren't you tLC government? Can you please tell me the tLC description of

- a techraid and its purpose

- a war and its purpose

- an alliance (what requirments are there? Like member count, NS count, do they need a wikipedia, where do they have to make an announcement?)

- a rogue (are that nations that defend itself against a tLC techraider?)

All I see is that you are a rogue nation who attacked one of my alliance mates. You are no a victim here, you are the orchestrator. Get a clue drama queen.

I couldn't care less about how you think about me. I made this thread to inform planet Bob about your aggressive member and the reason why I in the end had to declare. To prevent escalation and as a side effect to start a discussion about using spy attacks to destroy a nation by calling it 'techraid'

No you made this post because you feel ignored. I'm willing to bet it has to do with your personal life, but that's just a guess

LOL...you trying to prevent an escalation.....sure that makes sense.

Keep going drama queen, you are quite entertaining.

[Ome Harry]

I always love these popcornmoments

[Denniswerf]

I always love these popcornmoments

Hi darling

[Timmmehhh]

I have several questions for FOK.

1. Why would you accept someone who is at war when it states SPECIFICALLY in your charter that it's not allowed.

2. Why would you offer asylum to a known nuclear rogue who posted this little gem not all that long in the past

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...c=62238&hl=

Answers to these questions would be great, especially #2... as I'm sure that I'm not the only one who finds that troubling.

1. Denniswerf used to be a loyal and longtime member of FOK. FOK keeps an close eyes on their former members and helps them out when they need help. Most ex-members return to FOK after a few months of absence. At FOK he used to be an economic mastermind and he was the minister of economics of FOK.

Regarding our charter, it is used as a guideline, The FOK council has the right to make exceptions. For example our charter states that a FOK nation should be on the orange team. But sometimes a member is allowed to stay on a different team because he is in a tradecircle and has very bad resources. Maybe you guys shouldn't focus that much on FOK's charter who is for internal use, but built a charter for your own alliance. Your Wiki page doesn't have one at the moment. Kinda lame you start complaining about our charter when you guys don't even have one posted on your Wiki page.

2. Denniswerf is not a nuclear rogue, he is defending himself from a spyraid initiated by Nigras.

Also why is TLC harboring a member who is raiding nations, and is spying on unaligned (in this instance a former FOK member)? I thought your leader, Electron Sponge, was against raiding? I don't really care if you do, but you shouldn't be annoyed when FOK does their own thing and looks after their (former) members.

[Timmmehhh]

Would FOK be opposed to me redeclaring after this war?

Official response please.

No, you are free to redeclare after this war. We consider this a 1v1 dispute between you and Denniswerf. I think Denniswerf wouldn't mind another round either

[RandomInterrupt]

1. Denniswerf used to be a loyal and longtime member of FOK. FOK keeps an close eyes on their former members and helps them out when they need help. Most ex-members return to FOK after a few months of absence. At FOK he used to be an economic mastermind and he was the minister of economics of FOK.

Regarding our charter, it is used as a guideline, The FOK council has the right to make exceptions. For example our charter states that a FOK nation should be on the orange team. But sometimes a member is allowed to stay on a different team because he is in a tradecircle and has very bad resources. Maybe you guys shouldn't focus that much on FOK's charter who is for internal use, but built a charter for your own alliance. Your Wiki page doesn't have one at the moment. Kinda lame you start complaining about our charter when you guys don't even have one posted on your Wiki page.

2. Denniswerf is not a nuclear rogue, he is defending himself from a spyraid initiated by Nigras.

Also why is TLC harboring a member who is raiding nations, and is spying on unaligned (in this instance a former FOK member)? I thought your leader, Electron Sponge, was against raiding? I don't really care if you do, but you shouldn't be annoyed when FOK does their own thing and looks after their (former) members.

1. tLC has a charter. The wiki is a waste of space largely, so it if isn't posted there it's because no one cares. You could go to tLC's forum to find it, if you really needed to.

2. Read the thread. I guess you missed the part about Denniswerf's little organization that is impossible to leave.

3. Just as FOK can accept whoever they want, tLC can handle unaligned nations however they want. Were you looking after your former member when he decided to "Go Out With A Bang"?

[Tromp]

2. Read the thread. I guess you missed the part about Denniswerf's little organization that is impossible to leave.

If you are referring to "GOWAB", then I must point out that this was never carried out.

[Jyrinx]

If you are referring to "GOWAB", then I must point out that this was never carried out.

He did not announce his intention to not carry out while he was flying the AA, so wouldn't you consider him to have been a nuclear rogue then (while flying that AA)?

[Tromp]

He did not announce his intention to not carry out while he was flying the AA, so wouldn't you consider him to have been a nuclear rogue then (while flying that AA)?

As far as I'm aware, he never nuked anyone while flying the GOWAB banner before this incident, so he can't be considered a nuke rogue.

[TehChron]

As far as I'm aware, he never nuked anyone while flying the GOWAB banner before this incident, so he can't be considered a nuke rogue.

By your definition, of course, which simply waits for announced would-be nuke rogues to carry through with their threats before considering them to be hostiles.

[Jyrinx]

As far as I'm aware, he never nuked anyone while flying the GOWAB banner before this incident, so he can't be considered a nuke rogue.

I understand that he didn't nuke anyone, but he announced his intention to, announced that there was no way back, and was flying the AA that was required to be flown as per the GOWAB. With all that in mind, you don't consider him a rogue? The only thing he didn't do was press the button, but he stated that it was his intention to do so at the time. It was only later that he clarified*, but you don't think his actions made him a rogue at the time this war/battle/raid/whatever occurred?

*Edit: And by clarify, I mean change his mind entirely, kind of violating the definitiveness of GOWAB but whatever

Edited September 22, 2009 by Jyrinx

[Tromp]

By your definition, of course, which simply waits for announced would-be nuke rogues to carry through with their threats before considering them to be hostiles.

Do you consider spy ops hostile acts?

[Shodemofi-NPO]

2. Denniswerf is not a nuclear rogue, he is defending himself from a spyraid initiated by Nigras.

Also why is TLC harboring a member who is raiding nations, and is spying on unaligned (in this instance a former FOK member)? I thought your leader, Electron Sponge, was against raiding? I don't really care if you do, but you shouldn't be annoyed when FOK does their own thing and looks after their (former) members.

"Spyraid" is not a term. Nigras conducted a spy operation on Denniswerf, true, however as Denniswerf had no connection to you (him being a former member is pretty irrelevant) it's none of your business. It still isn't your business even if you did accept him back in, he chose to declare war on Nigras, you aren't involved.

Also, I think we need to clarify what rogue means. My understanding is that it has always meant attacking a member of an alliance when not during an alliance-wide war, or some other sort of agreement. I've never seen it used contrary to that, so let's not try and change the definition. He did do that. He used nukes. He's a nuclear rogue.

Also, spying on unaligned again, in no way concerns you. Again, him being a former member is irrelevant. It doesn't matter what ES's opinion on tech raiding is, tLC allows it, and Nigras wasn't even doing that. Stop pretending that being a former member somehow grants you some sort of protection.

[Tromp]

I understand that he didn't nuke anyone, but he announced his intention to, announced that there was no way back, and was flying the AA that was required to be flown as per the GOWAB. With all that in mind, you don't consider him a rogue? The only thing he didn't do was press the button, but he stated that it was his intention to do so at the time. It was only later that he clarified*, but you don't think his actions made him a rogue at the time this war/battle/raid/whatever occurred?

*Edit: And by clarify, I mean change his mind entirely, kind of violating the definitiveness of GOWAB but whatever

He never declared during that period, on anyone, so why one would even want to call him a rogue is beyond me.

[Tromp]

Also, spying on unaligned again, in no way concerns you. Again, him being a former member is irrelevant.

This is interesting, and debatable, because it's the same as saying that you need a treaty to defend (/attack) a partneralliance or something.

I know it's common now, but in no way is that necessary.

[Jyrinx]

He never declared during that period, on anyone, so why one would even want to call him a rogue is beyond me.

It just strikes me as odd that you don't consider those actions to be that of a rogue is all. He announced his intentions well and clear and still flew the AA at the time. But that's your interpretation I guess *shrugs*