Pro-Piracy Act of 2009

[Barron von Hammer]

Instead, we have created a policy of our own and posted it for public information as is custom in this world.

Oh please. Your post is in direct response to our resolution. One quick glance at the GOONS aid page shows not a single Goons nation advocating through action your proxy "piracy act." This of course means that either you suddenly sought to announce a foreign policy decision based entirely in response to ours (which makes me feel good actually) or it is a publicity stunt to try and convince others on Bob that the Goons are "mean and nasty, just like before!" It is analagous to an insecure bully who draws attention to himself by yelling loudly in a deserted schoolyard. You only option now is to get a bigger bullhorn.

[Rebel Virginia]

Would you consider it to be more or less nonsensical than, say, claiming you're the voice of the people, then getting called on not having talked to the people, then claiming to be a pacifist, then getting called on obviously non-pacifist excuses you've made, then ignoring the entire thing altogether?

Pardon me, but for well over a year I have received countless messages from my many adoring fans, thanking me for sharing my (and their own) views on things, because they were too afraid to speak for themselves, or simply could not find the time to do it. So no, I do not need to go out of my way to speak to people because they will come to me. And I assure you, several have already approached me in the last few days.

Now, how about you address my arguments instead of launching attacks upon my character, which is held in the highest esteem by many I assure you. Believe me, childish insults do not give you credibility, or even make your argument less flawed.

[salithus]

Oh please. Your post is in direct response to our resolution. One quick glance at the GOONS aid page shows not a single Goons nation advocating through action your proxy "piracy act." This of course means that either you suddenly sought to announce a foreign policy decision based entirely in response to ours (which makes me feel good actually) or it is a publicity stunt to try and convince others on Bob that the Goons are "mean and nasty, just like before!" It is analagous to an insecure bully who draws attention to himself by yelling loudly in a deserted schoolyard. You only option now is to get a bigger bullhorn.

Oh man, I didn't realize that we had to line up nations to take advantage of this before we posted it. PMs are being sent to nations we feel are suited for this program and, of course, all who are eligible are welcome to apply. Want to cry about it some more?

[Rebel Virginia]

The idea is for a raider nation to have the courage to take the honorable step and raid another nation. By us providing a safety net they are emboldened to attack another nation for fun and profit. What's wrong exactly with two unaligned nations slugging it out? Nothing! We might provide assistance to the raider if he comes to us for help, but that is just so he doesn't get discouraged and swears off war. It is important that unaligneds experience war so they might one day divest themselves of their unaligned nature and become productive members of society.

Do you want to tell me how it is just two unaligned nations slugging it out? By provided aid to the raider you become involved in the whole process, and are therefore aligned with the raider. Is this so difficult for you to understand?

[Sardonic]

Do you want to tell me how it is just two unaligned nations slugging it out? By provided aid to the raider you become involved in the whole process, and are therefore aligned with the raider. Is this so difficult for you to understand?

The idea is for a raider nation to have the courage to take the honorable step and raid another nation. By us providing a safety net they are emboldened to attack another nation for fun and profit. What's wrong exactly with two unaligned nations slugging it out? Nothing! We might provide assistance to the raider if he comes to us for help, but that is just so he doesn't get discouraged and swears off war. It is important that unaligneds experience war so they might one day divest themselves of their unaligned nature and become productive members of society.

I'm not sure why you don't get this, it's merely a preventative measure to ensure the raider keeps raiding.

[salithus]

Pardon me, but for well over a year I have received countless messages from my many adoring fans, thanking me for sharing my (and their own) views on things, because they were too afraid to speak for themselves, or simply could not find the time to do it. So no, I do not need to go out of my way to speak to people because they will come to me. And I assure you, several have already approached me in the last few days.

Now, how about you address my arguments instead of launching attacks upon my character, which is held in the highest esteem by many I assure you. Believe me, childish insults do not give you credibility, or even make your argument less flawed.

I have also had plenty of people thank me for making this and other statements I have made. Your "voice of the people" party line is just a publicity stunt you've grown so attached to you can no longer distinguish it from reality.

You have made no arguments - You have made threats. You have backpedaled from threats. You have made claims about your character. You have ceased those claims when their flaws have been illustrated. If you have no desire to have how substanceless and self-important your posts are - stop making substanceless posts.

[Rebel Virginia]

I'm not sure why you don't get this, it's merely a preventative measure to ensure the raider keeps raiding.

If they bite off more than they can chew then they deserve to get whooped by the nation they attacked. They clearly then have no idea what they are doing and should not be raiding.

[Eamon Valda]

GOONS: the never-ending and noble quest to liberate the world from the clutches of seriousness, morality, noobness, and, generally, various types of breakfast cereal. [bad pun] Nasty and dangerous cereal killers! [/bad pun]

I like it.

[Sardonic]

If they bite off more than they can chew then they deserve to get whooped by the nation they attacked. They clearly then have no idea what they are doing and should not be raiding.

Nonsense, we all do silly things from time to time, it's important to learn how to raid properly. You have to fall down a few times to learn how to ride a bike, and we're right there to help pick them back up.

[WilliamDean]

Why do GOONS want to recruit nations that look to fight yet don't have the stones to fight an even war (let alone one where they are on the weaker side) without crying to a bigger entity to help them? Are you just trying to ensure that one things get tough, this iteration capitulates even more quickly than the previous one?

[Barron von Hammer]

Oh man, I didn't realize that we had to line up nations to take advantage of this before we posted it. PMs are being sent to nations we feel are suited for this program and, of course, all who are eligible are welcome to apply. Want to cry about it some more?

No, I want you to cry about it. You have done more to promote our interests that any foreign policy tool at our disposal. To be honest I would have hoped for someone a bit more communicative as most of your posts read like "My day at the Zoo."

But you are doing just fine my friend.

[Eden Taylor]

Wow, this was funny, now it's kind of pathetic. GOONS, you should have known to just ignore RV, really. Silly GOONS, learn your lesson and let the idiot say what he will. By all means, feel free to respond to anything anyone else has to say, but please refrain from engaging RV. We do get a laugh out of it, but after a while it's not even related to what was being discussed or announced, and RV is never funny when irrelevant.

[Rebel Virginia]

Wow, this was funny, now it's kind of pathetic. GOONS, you should have known to just ignore RV, really. Silly GOONS, learn your lesson and let the idiot say what he will. By all means, feel free to respond to anything anyone else has to say, but please refrain from engaging RV. We do get a laugh out of it, but after a while it's not even related to what was being discussed or announced, and RV is never funny when irrelevant.

You seem to be confused, and have deluded yourself into thinking that I exist for your own amusement. But do remember that I am a champion of the downtrodden, and a defender of the rights of all men. Although I am sure that you and your ilk enjoy beating down weaker parties for giggles, I am also sure that you enjoy playing down the arguments of the "morality squad." Well, rest assured, you may laugh all you like. You will eat your words one day though, and most likely by someone other than me. People will only put up with your arrogance and abuses for so long, before you go the way of past tyrants. We all know the end result of excessive hubris I am sure.

[Eden Taylor]

You seem to be confused, and have deluded yourself into thinking that I exist for your own amusement. But do remember that I am a champion of the downtrodden, and a defender of the rights of all men. Although I am sure that you and your ilk enjoy beating down weaker parties for giggles, I am also sure that you enjoy playing down the arguments of the "morality squad." Well, rest assured, you may laugh all you like. You will eat your words one day though, and most likely by someone other than me. People will only put up with your arrogance and abuses for so long, before you go the way of past tyrants. We all know the end result of excessive hubris I am sure.

Ok, cool. Thanks for your opinion.

[Comrade Goby]

An excellent document. Good show GOONS, would read again 10/10

[Hydro]

Well, it's about bloody time someone did something about all these buzzkills masquerading as white knights, when realistically they're just a group of power hungry attention whores who can't bare to see people act differently than them.

o/ GOONS

[Sandwich Controversy]

No, you see they just have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and buy a gun or two so this doesn't happen again.

If he had gun, this not happen.

[TheTrooper]

Always someone that makes something ridiculous like this in the world of Bob...

[agnews]

People will only put up with your arrogance and abuses for so long,[/size] before you go the way of past tyrants. We all know the end result of excessive hubris I am sure.[/color

The bolded part just made my day

Edited September 18, 2009 by agnews

[ModusOperandi]

Two things..

I don't see anything wrong with raiding but it is a slippery slope since, as somebody already mentioned, eventually if a victim counterattacks its going to lead to the reestablishment of permazi.

So, be careful; from what I've already seen, these GOONs are very close to reimplementing some of the policies which had a previous alliance called GOONS chased from Bob.. nature has a way of correcting itself.

However, if one alliance chooses to support the tech-raided its only right for another alliance to support the tech-raider.

Two hemispheres in the Cyberverse again, anyone?

At least the next few months appear as though they will be entertaining.

[salithus]

At least the next few months appear as though they will be entertaining.

Typically I would not reply to you, as we have already kicked you around the posting playground before. However, this sentence needs to be highlighted. It is time to take a serious look at the state of affairs if something like this is seen as the source of entertainment for those who frequent this world. Your statement implies, quite correctly, that without actions like this - Planet Bob would be dying of boredom. Let us face the fact that the CyberPixelFarming sphere is the most boring thing imaginable on this planet.

[Rebel Virginia]

Typically I would not reply to you, as we have already kicked you around the posting playground before. However, this sentence needs to be highlighted. It is time to take a serious look at the state of affairs if something like this is seen as the source of entertainment for those who frequent this world. Your statement implies, quite correctly, that without actions like this - Planet Bob would be dying of boredom. Let us face the fact that the CyberPixelFarming sphere is the most boring thing imaginable on this planet.

Nonsense. You know nobody is going to go to war over this. Maybe one or two people, but not enough to make a difference. Most people are cowards and too timid to fight for their principles. You will merely be picking on people who cannot fight back, and whom nobody will defend. If you truly wanted to shake things up you would challenge an alliance with resolve. Do not claim to be doing anything remotely noble or commendable. Your alliance is the lowest of the lows, and it is painfully obvious to all.

[salithus]

Nonsense. You know nobody is going to go to war over this. Maybe one or two people, but not enough to make a difference. Most people are cowards and too timid to fight for their principles. You will merely be picking on people who cannot fight back, and whom nobody will defend. If you truly wanted to shake things up you would challenge an alliance with resolve. Do not claim to be doing anything remotely noble or commendable. Your alliance is the lowest of the lows, and it is painfully obvious to all.

You heard it here first. RV calls me out as a psychic.

[Rebel Virginia]

You heard it here first. RV calls me out as a psychic.

So, you're admitting to everything I have just said?

[deSouza]

Bad form, GOONS, bad form.

Horrible actually.

asking someone to morally justify something is rather pointless if you dont' define what morality is and isn't. what if they simply have different morals than you do? if you want to argue morals, you should probably go ahead and frame the argument, otherwise how can they justify themselves appropriatley?

Unless you're just trying to bait them into a NO U war, which i know you would never think of doing.

I'm afraid the relativist sophistry is not suitable for this situation.

RV happened to ask a moral jusitificative (in the OP's definition of morals) for this gruesome act.

Do try again.

Moral Argument:

It provides assistance to a party that far too many people ignore, the raider. So many recent policies have revolved around the raided, as if by virtue of attacking the raider is somehow behaving poorly. This refutes the false ideology that it is more virtuous to be attacked than to attack. You have to consiter all the factors. The raider merely wishes to get ahead, what is wrong with a desire for advancement? If the attacked nation wanted to get ahead, he too should raid others, and so on and so forth. A war is simply an exchange and destruction of resources, there is nothing "moral" or "immoral" about it.

Philosophical argument:

God did it.

Your argument presumes that raiding other nations will improve your nation, which is a fairly common fallacy.

Anyone considering raiding another nation "to get ahead" deserves some good spanking to learn nation managing a little better. Aside from the fact that if the opponents fights back your entire presumption of profit with raiding goes downhill (all he has to do, even if he is smaller, is to fire cruise missiles), technology at lower tiers is insanely cheap... So the raider's motivation is either stupidity or a sadistic drive towards harming other people. Harming other people for your own amusement is immoral.

It's regrettable, but not entirely surprising that you of such experience would cling to the mainstream thought on the matter. The attacker is the victim when society puts the raided on a pedestal. In reality they are equals. Between unaligneds, where there is no politics involved, there truly is nothing more pure than war. What does one desire from a war? Resources? Excitement? Wanton destruction? On the front these seem like nasty things, but in reality they have a certain beauty, without war could there be any peace? The attacker inflicts the desire in the attacked, breeding yet more destruction still. The attacked hopefully grows up during the first war, becoming a future attacker. If he cannot deal with being attacked, he truly has no place here.

You are correct in saying that the attacker and the victim are equals.

Both of them are in digiterra.

The attacker, though, takes the initiative towards harming the victim, establishing a small but very important difference in behavior that tends to determine most guidelines for the interaction between humans in the modern world, which is intent. The attacker is a vile, corrupted thief who would step on the throats of anyone to get a bit of excitement and the victim is a poor, innocent ruler who probably just wants to nourish his nation and will most likely be driven out of planet bob due to this "policy".

It is morally correct to reprehend raiders of small, unaligned nations because those raiders directly contribute for the diminishing of the number of rulers in bob, indirectly worsening everyone else's experience.

Additionally:

• I AM SO ANGRY THAT UNALIGNEDS ATTACK OTHER UNALIGNEDS EVEN THOUGH THIS DOES NOT AFFECT ME!
  

The more people we have in bob, the better the experience is.

This policy clearly affects everyone here, and the reasons were extensively repeated on the thread.

If you just got out of your lulz-wagon and stopped filtering anything resembling a glympse of morality you would understand why.

Oh hi there new GOONS. If you're interested in a history lesson, there are plenty of reliable sources that I'll be able to point you to. Maybe then you'll understand why you got destroyed the first time around.

They are not the same alliance, nor the same people.

They are going down the same path, though, unfortunately.

I fail to see how GOONS being the most successful alliance in CN prior to its fall teaches us anything against pro-raider policies.

I can name quite a few situations in which there was apparent success before an incredibly fast downfall.

/godwin/

Your logical flaw is assuming the fall was caused by raid-friendly policies.

It wasn't.

As far as riding on the backs of other alliances went, we were more than capable of holding our own, until the end of course.

And what exactly led to that end (i'm talking about the part where GOONS actions influenced GOONS image abroad, not the part where people took advantage of it)?

Did it magically appear out of thin air, like a biblical apocalypse, and swept the entirety of your old alliance out of the planet bob?

Arrogance? That's rich. Arrogance flows like wine here, rightly or not, I doubt any single alliance could claim a monopoly on it. The fall had little to do with arrogance, I can tell you that much.

Some arrogance is crystal clear.

I really hate having to respond to you, as it means giving you momentary legitimacy, however, I must point out that the NSO's policy is nothing like this. GOONS is simply making an excuse to bully the weak, while the NSO has simply affirmed its right to get involved in any conflict it sees fit (a right which it, and every other alliance, already possessed). There is no comparison to be had between the two.

Would you like to tell me how attacking you and getting ZIed would accomplish anything? I tried to be civil, however, your childish insults and goading of me to "do something about it." It really is hard to reason with such thick individuals. But yes, you want me to do something about it, well, I am. Do not forget that I am the voice of the people, and my words alone are to be feared by tyrants. I have the ears of the masses.

Whenever someone incites you to do something about it, remember that speech is "something" and collective opinion means everything.

(ooc: Edit - Cleaned my post to avoid warning.)

Edited September 18, 2009 by deSouza