NPO History Discussion

[John Michaels]

Here, I'll quote the first few paragraphs of the CN wiki history and point out where people have obviously used telepathy to fill in the gaps. By the way, the spelling in this article is terrible.

The entire thing has been greatly revised and updated, as you can see in my thread. I just never cared enough to fix the wiki version, although now that you bring it up I will.

EDIT: I will make some elaborations as you suggested.

Edited August 20, 2009 by John Michaels

[Vladimir]

Funny thing about the "doctored" logs is that the originals (where Ivan allegedly said "absolutely not!") were never produced and King Justin admitted to them and resigned his spot on the War Council. The line you're feeding is just another bit of trademark Pacifican revisionism that came out of the GWI-GWII transitional era. It carries about as much truth as the "we do not spy" mantra.

The originals were produced at the time immediately, both in private to Legion and publicly. I've never, until now, heard this denied. I'm also fairly sure that the culprit [Nosey] admitted the fact and stated his regret.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Vladimir

[Mussolandia]

Funny thing about the "doctored" logs is that the originals (where Ivan allegedly said "absolutely not!") were never produced and King Justin admitted to them and resigned his spot on the War Council. The line you're feeding is just another bit of trademark Pacifican revisionism that came out of the GWI-GWII transitional era. It carries about as much truth as the "we do not spy" mantra.

Should you be accusing the NPO of rewriting history when you are distorting it yourself? I'm of course referring to the events of the GWI.

The traitor himself acknowledged the logs were doctored.

EDIT: thanks Vladimir

Edited August 21, 2009 by Mussolandia

[TehChron]

Should you be accusing the NPO of rewriting history when you are distorting it yourself? I'm of course referring to the events of the GWI.

The traitor himself acknowledged the logs were doctored.

EDIT: thanks Vladimir

Uh...Yeah, Doitzel, that's actually true. The day after Legion fired it's nuclear salvo, we released the full, uneditted logs, confirmed by Nosey. Nosey then proceeded to profess his profound regret at the potentially painful paradigm that resulted from his period as a plant.

I can understand DP...But to be honest, that's kind of a low blow there, about the GWI logs.

Edit: Clarification

Edited August 21, 2009 by Chron

[Mandrivia_2]

While I won't get into my own personally feelings about the NPO (I"m sure I've made those clear in other places) I will say that this recent war was almost entirely of their own doing. The countless "curbstomps" if you will seems to have given NPO a feeling of invincibility (as made clearer by some member's posts on the BBs) and thus did not expect to ever be on the losing side of this conflict. Now there probably are many arguments against this theory, but to me, this is what it seemed like. Nothing is permanent, especially on an online simulation game.

[Branimir]

But to be honest, that's kind of a low blow there, about the GWI logs.

Low blow? More like blatant lies, but hey, wasever

Also, I dont really believe this is a continuation of the previous thread, because that thread went on about NPO RIA relations, with some historical references which were used in an attempt at skewing that debate. So,...yeah.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Branimir

[Zeta Defender]

Not only was the content of De Profundis confirmed by Dilber, it was also confirmed by Seasons of Love in a lengthy post on your own forums, though it was portrayed as an innocent attempt to protect the NPO Body Republic from the shock of you all hanging Polar out to dry. It might still be in the Emperor's Office, you should take a look.

I guess Polaris is trying to rewrite history too if you are trying to say we left Polaris out to dry. TBH the 1st move was made months before any of that transgressed by ES.

[TehChron]

I guess Polaris is trying to rewrite history too if you are trying to say we left Polaris out to dry. TBH the 1st move was made months before any of that transgressed by ES.

I agree, the nature of the alliances in WUT's original signatories were skewered directly by how loyal they were to Pacifica, rather than to the Orders in general, let alone one another.

[Mustakrakish II]

NPO was born then they grow then they fight then they grow grow grow grow! No-one likes NPO! Everyone attacks NPO! Then NPO shrink shrink shrink shrink! Now they pay money!

Better than I could do right there

[WarriorConcept]

The treaty was broken when you went behind our backs on your singular goal of ensuring enough anti NPO bandwagon for the eventual show down you planned for. That took place 5 months before the first opportunity to do so and the NPO OV war. This are all your words here.

Thank you, good day.

The irony in this was hilarious tbh

[Branimir]

The irony in this was hilarious tbh

The truth, as it is.

Sometimes truth can be funny.

[Corinan]

Funny thing about the "doctored" logs is that the originals (where Ivan allegedly said "absolutely not!") were never produced and King Justin admitted to them and resigned his spot on the War Council.

I know I won't be believed but Ivan did say that in response to people wanting to hit Legion. I was in the channel at the time and remember it.

[WarriorConcept]

The truth, as it is.

Sometimes truth can be funny.

They planned for you turning on them, they didn't plan on destroying you through their own initiatives.

Regardless I know you know what irony I was referring to, as you guys have broken treaties in the past by plotting your own ally's downfall.

[Branimir]

To be quite honest, I cant really believe we are actually arguing about King Justin logs from 2006.

This is really lol worthy.

[Corinan]

To be quite honest, I cant really believe we are actually arguing about King Justin logs from 2006.

This is really lol worthy.

Yeah, this is the first time that I can remember someone trying to dispute the events surrounding all that.

[Branimir]

They planned for you turning on them, they didn't plan on destroying you through their own initiatives.

I addressed this "victim card" that people keep pulling in their defense so their !@#$ doesn't smell as bad as ours.

Its nonsense.

"They plotted against their treaty partners backs in defense",.... You know, people should really stop bothering me with this nonsense. Fact of the matter is, they took part in creating an anti NPO bandwagon which purpose was to see our destruction when the opportunity presented it self while having a treaty with us for 5 months. Blatant treaty breaking is blatant treaty breaking, no other name for it.

Regardless I know you know what irony I was referring to, as you guys have broken treaties in the past by plotting your own ally's downfall.

Ah and now precious "blame NPO for everything" card. When you use it, it invalidates all other !@#$ done. Actually, it doesn't work that way.

I covered all this in that other thread, I honestly do not mean to go in circles here. Delta and I worked things out in the end, with him finally admitting that he did broke the treaty he held with us and that it "wasn't good". It took some posts, but finally he couldn't call treaty breaking any other name. When the "victim card" and "blame NPO for everything" card get overused and ineffective, you have to man up.

[WarriorConcept]

I addressed this "victim card" that people keep pulling in their defense so their !@#$ doesn't smell as bad as ours.

Its nonsense.

"They plotted against their treaty partners backs in defense",.... You know, people should really stop bothering me with this nonsense. Fact of the matter is, they took part in creating an anti NPO bandwagon which purpose was to see our destruction when the opportunity presented it self while having a treaty with us for 5 months. Blatant treaty breaking is blatant treaty breaking, no other name for it.

They plotted to do what, exactly? Defend themselves and their allies? Cry me a river, they wouldn't have needed to do any such thing were your track record with allies not so atrocious, nor would it ever have been needed had you not decided to start off the war.

I'm glad you've admitted to breaking treaties in the past however, refreshing to see that from NPO.

Ah and now precious "blame NPO for everything" card. When you use it, it invalidates all other !@#$ done. Actually, it doesn't work that way.

I covered all this in that other thread, I honestly do not mean to go in circles here. Delta and I worked things out in the end, with him finally admitting that he did broke the treaty he held with us and that it "wasn't good". It took some posts, but finally he couldn't call treaty breaking any other name. When the "victim card" and "blame NPO for everything" card get overused and ineffective, you have to man up.

You realize you're the one pulling the victim card here, right?

[Branimir]

Yeah, this is the first time that I can remember someone trying to dispute the events surrounding all that.

Oh its Doitz. That should explain it, nothing going for him for some time now.

So now he took the ultimate task-- how to ague and create drama about something which is long dead and forgotten from an angle nobody ever argued because it was showed false.

Man, if somebody can pull such a feet, I bet its Doitz.

[Branimir]

They plotted to do what, exactly? Defend themselves and their allies? Cry me a river, they wouldn't have needed to do any such thing were your track record with allies not so atrocious, nor would it ever have been needed had you not decided to start off the war.

"Victim card" again. The evol NPO was out to eat their children....

What they did, was to took part in creating a big enough anti NPO bandwagon which eventually jumped us, while holding a treaty with us. That is working against your treaty partners back. Even Delta dropped pretending otherwise, man, stop wasting my time.

It is what it is. Cry me a river if I call Bob, Bob.

I'm glad you've admitted to breaking treaties in the past however, refreshing to see that from NPO.

Honestly, I do not know what you are talking about. I see you are really trying to argue something here, which was effectively settled in that previous thread, but you are really dong it badly. Putting words in my mouth,...I mean,..I dont know, cant get bothered...

You realize you're the one pulling the victim card here, right

You know, I am just calling blatant treaty breaking its full name.

I already had this convo today, in that other thread. I will not go here in circles. Debate which started between me and Delta I consider settled.

[WarriorConcept]

"Victim card" again. The evol NPO was out to eat their children....

What they did, was to took part in creating a big enough anti NPO bandwagon which eventually jumped us, while holding a treaty with us. That is working against your treaty partners back. Even Delta dropped pretending otherwise, man, stop wasting my time.

It is what it is. Cry me a river if I call Bob, Bob.

They jumped you? I could've sworn it was you guys who started the war. And your own rash decision which formed a big enough coalition to knock you guys down. Or was there some selective reading of delta's posts where he said they would have lost the war had you guys not attacked at that instant?

Honestly, I do not know what you are talking about. I see you are really trying to argue something here, which was effectively settled in that previous thread, but you are really dong it badly. Putting words in my mouth,...I mean,..I dont know, cant get bothered...

UJW war, breaking the WUT treaty by actively planning behind everyone's back. You broke that treaty plain and simple, and I'd love to see you worm yourself out of it, mr "victim".

You know, I am just calling blatant treaty breaking its full name.

I already had this convo today, in that other thread. I will not go here in circles. Debate which started between me and Delta I consider settled.

You know in the same post he said that he mentioned you guys broke the treaty too, right? I forgot how selective NPO reading was.

[Horatio Longworth]

NPO was born then they grow then they fight then they grow grow grow grow! No-one likes NPO! Everyone attacks NPO! Then NPO shrink shrink shrink shrink! Now they pay money!

You had a perfect Rhyme scheme until the last line.

[Branimir]

They jumped you?

The anti NPO bandwagon, the same RIA took part in nurturing. They jumped on a chance we presented them. Netted a nice victory.

But while they nurtured that forces while holding a treaty with us, they broke their treaty with us, showed to be double faced in that regard.

It is what it is, and man am I tired at pointing out the obvious here.

UJW war, breaking the WUT treaty by actively planning behind everyone's back. You broke that treaty plain and simple, and I'd love to see you worm yourself out of it, mr "victim".

While I am sure it would be fun to go down this road again with you, the road of butthurt loser from that war, I don't care really.

It all started by Delta not wanting to admit what became clear from his posts-- he did broke the treaty with NPO.

How much butthurt you still hold over UjP isnt a part of that debate. Actually it is quite irrelevant.

You know in the same post he said that he mentioned you guys broke the treaty too, right? I forgot how selective NPO reading was.

Yeah I asked him how exactly, he didnt answered, so yeah. Whatever to that really.

Anyway, the original debate was settled, at least for me. You argue what ever you want WC, maybe somebody else can indulge you.

I couldn't care less, Delta and I resolved our debate. He came clean and stated his reasons. Its all cool as long as people do not pretend something which isn't, he stopped and that was that.

Night all.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Branimir

[WarriorConcept]

The anti NPO bandwagon, the same RIA took part in nurturing. They jumped on a chance we presented them. Netted a nice victory.

But while they nurtured that forces while holding a treaty with us, they broke their treaty with us, showed to be double faced in that regard.

It is what it is, and man am I tired at pointing out the obvious here.

The "anti-NPO bandwagon" that you call it, was nurtured and made stronger by none other than you. Its victory was only accomplished because of the allies you pushed away, RIA really needed not do anything.

While I am sure it would be fun to go down this road again with you, the road of butthurt loser from that war, I don't care really.

It all started by Delta not wanting to admit what became clear from his posts-- he did broke the treaty with NPO.

How much butthurt you still hold over UjP isnt a part of that debate. Actually it is quite irrelevant.

You broke the treaty with your other allies. Man up, stop playing the victim cards, stop painting a rosier picture or whatever drivel you tried to spew in the other thread. Perhaps you missed what the topic title is of this thread? Of course you're going to ignore it now that it's obvious your own history is as terrible as you've created it, maybe admitting your wrong doings will help ease that burden up?

Yeah I asked him how exactly, he didnt answered, so yeah. Whatever to that really.

Anyway, the original debate was settled, at least for me. You argue what ever you want WC, maybe somebody else can indulge you.

I couldn't care less, Delta and I resolved our debate. He came clean and stated his reasons. Its all cool as long as people do not pretend something which isn't, he stopped and that was that.

Night all.

Actually he did answer, you just in your own selective reading discounted it. You went and attacked people that would force RIA on the other side of a war without telling him of your intentions of it. You realize he stopped because all you've been doing is playing the victim, not because you're right.

[Lord Brendan]

The anti NPO bandwagon, the same RIA took part in nurturing. They jumped on a chance we presented them. Netted a nice victory.

Oh come on.

There are two options here:

1: NPO leadership is totally clueless and has no foresight whatsoever. They honestly didn't know that attacking OV would draw in SuperFriends and C&G.

2: NPO leadership made a deliberate move to lure SuperFriends and C&G into a curbstomp, failing because they miscalculated the loyalties of several alliances, namely Citadel and Sparta.

[Heft]

Oh come on.

There are two options here:

1: NPO leadership is totally clueless and has no foresight whatsoever. They honestly didn't know that attacking OV would draw in SuperFriends and C&G.

2: NPO leadership made a deliberate move to lure SuperFriends and C&G into a curbstomp, failing because they miscalculated the loyalties of several alliances, namely Citadel and Sparta.

There are, in fact, plenty of other options, most owing to the NPO's position as the "leader" of that adventure being rather dubious (not to mention the apparently shoddy state of affairs within the NPO's political leadership).