Jack Grist Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) These new wonders are interesting. Moon bases and Mars bases were a real shock to what I expected the new wonders would be, but oh well, I WANT ONE! I was wondering, what one do you think I should get first? Mars Base or Moon Base? They both have good features, but want to know your views on it. Im planning on the Disaster Relief Agency in August for my 13th wonder. Edited July 27, 2009 by Jack Grist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesusaurus Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Honestly? I think they are too expensive for their benefits. It would cost me 688 Million to get a Martian Base. It would cost me another 490 Million each for a colony and a mining base. Those three would provide a total of 14 happiness, -3% infra cost and upkeep, and 5% citizen storage, and access to Sodium which would provide a further +4 happiness to my nation. Those figures are assuming maximum happiness is being given as it states "Provides a gradually increasing happiness bonus that peaks at +6 happiness at the end of the life of the wonder." which I interpret as over time you will gain more happiness up to +6 happiness. This also does not take into what "effectiveness" truely equates to which such a generic description of what it could impact. "The closer in miles that a facility is to the hotspot the more effective that wonder becomes," effective in what way? More citizens? More happiness? Better bonuses? Generic. I don't know if I can justify spending nearly 2 BILLION to get the bonuses these wonders provide. I can't honest decide if they will EVER pay for themselves. Edited July 27, 2009 by Jesusaurus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHawk Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Honestly? I think they are too expensive for their benefits. It would cost me 688 Million to get a Martian Base. It would cost me another 490 Million each for a colony and a mining base. Those three would provide a total of 14 happiness, -3% infra cost and upkeep, and 5% citizen storage, and access to Sodium which would provide a further +4 happiness to my nation. Those figures are assuming maximum happiness is being given as it states "Provides a gradually increasing happiness bonus that peaks at +6 happiness at the end of the life of the wonder." which I interpret as over time you will gain more happiness up to +6 happiness. This also does not take into what "effectiveness" truely equates to which such a generic description of what it could impact. "The closer in miles that a facility is to the hotspot the more effective that wonder becomes," effective in what way? More citizens? More happiness? Better bonuses? Generic. I don't know if I can justify spending nearly 2 BILLION to get the bonuses these wonders provide. I can't honest decide if they will EVER pay for themselves. They aren't, they are meant to be end-game money sinks. Edited July 27, 2009 by SilverHawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wish there was some way to search for nations with these wonders, so I could ridicule them. Oh well, I'll just have to wait for someone in my alliance to buy one so I can make fun instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaone Posted July 27, 2009 Report Share Posted July 27, 2009 I wish there was some way to search for nations with these wonders, so I could ridicule them. Oh well, I'll just have to wait for someone in my alliance to buy one so I can make fun instead. Just let them buy a FSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Grist Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Yeah, they are very expensive. I'm starting to doubt if I will buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelrat Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Mars wonders in general pays off after ~290days Moon wonders in general pays off after ~150 to ~170days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) I'm planning to buy the moon base after rebuilding back to 4999.99 infra, and the other two 4-5 months later. The cost will be a little over 100 mil. Storing 6% of your citizens sounds quite useful for extended wars, and the mods have mentioned military space wonders for the future. Military wonders are usually worth the money they cost. Edited July 28, 2009 by Viluin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naamah Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) I guess I see the point of an artificial money sink for huge nations, but in my opinion there no point to them unless some serious improvements come down the line later. You would be better off just adding to your warchest. edit: Steelrat - you mention a break even point but does this account for inefficiencies due to "hotspot" locations what whatnot? Edited August 1, 2009 by naamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Shaker Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I'm thinking to buy one of them before I get more NS. The more NS we have the more we have to pay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) I'm thinking to buy one of them before I get more NS. The more NS we have the more we have to pay That's what I thought, heh. I'd rather pay 100 mil than 500 mil. Edited August 2, 2009 by Viluin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer1557 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 The more infra you buy after you get the wonders the faster they return the cost. As soon as these wonders were announced, I stopped buying infra, and I'm just saving money until I have all 3 moon wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 I guess I see the point of an artificial money sink for huge nations, but in my opinion there no point to them unless some serious improvements come down the line later. You would be better off just adding to your warchest.edit: Steelrat - you mention a break even point but does this account for inefficiencies due to "hotspot" locations what whatnot? If you are going to be active all the time then you should always be able to collect at 100% if you coordinate with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 When it says that a moon colony "stores 6% of your citizen population"...what exactly does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHawk Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 When it says that a moon colony "stores 6% of your citizen population"...what exactly does that mean? It takes 6% of your citizens and adds them as new population at your Base. This population cannot be harmed by war on your planet bob bound country. (Think of it as a population multiplyer that ignores infrastructure change (for good or ill)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 Ah nice. That at least makes it somewhat worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kippa Tarxien Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) If you are going to be active all the time then you should always be able to collect at 100% if you coordinate with others. If you have a good hotspot calculator: With one moon (Mars) wonder, you have 50% probability to be able to reposition to the hotspot on day 7 and you are able to be on it on day 14. With two wonders, you should be able to be on it on day 1 (50%) or certainly on day 7. The above is true if you have efficiency levels above 50% after repositioning. Edited August 3, 2009 by Kippa Tarxien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Irwin Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 If you have a good hotspot calculator:With one moon (Mars) wonder, you have 50% probability to be able to reposition to the hotspot on day 7 and you are able to be on it on day 14. With two wonders, you should be able to be on it on day 1 (50%) or certainly on day 7. The above is true if you have efficiency levels above 50% after repositioning. I'm not sure how either of you are making these claims. Do we know how large the hotspot is? It seems to me that you could randomly move all your wonders around, and still not ever find it. Coordinating with others just means that several people are blindly moving them around. It seems hard to predict how many moves it would take before someone stumbles into it. Am I missing something here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kippa Tarxien Posted August 3, 2009 Report Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure how either of you are making these claims. Do we know how large the hotspot is? It seems to me that you could randomly move all your wonders around, and still not ever find it. Coordinating with others just means that several people are blindly moving them around. It seems hard to predict how many moves it would take before someone stumbles into it.Am I missing something here? Yes, you are missing something. We do not know how large the hotspot is, nor are we interested in how large it is. We only want to know the centre. And that can be calculated without "several people blindly moving around". Edited August 3, 2009 by Kippa Tarxien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer1557 Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Unless those people keep hitting 50%. Then you still have no idea where it is. Of course you are right, IF you can get anything above 50% then you can hone in on it. Otherwise, blindly moving around ftw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sande Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Mars base only costs 275 mil for me. Thanks to my previous warchest, I can now buy a mars base with my warchest. And then I will buy some more mars wonders with my low NS. I think I can get some money sent on my nation too so it will be worth for me in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Irwin Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Yes, you are missing something. We do not know how large the hotspot is, nor are we interested in how large it is. We only want to know the centre. And that can be calculated without "several people blindly moving around". The reason I was wondering how large it is is that to calculate your chances of stumbling on something greater than 50% in the first place, you would need to know the size. For example, if the hotspot is half the moon, it may only take 1 guess. But if it's only 1% of the surface area, then your chances of hitting it are only 1% each time you move, so it will take many blind attempts before someone gets greater than 50% and you are able to hone in on it, as Slayer mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelrat Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 The reason I was wondering how large it is is that to calculate your chances of stumbling on something greater than 50% in the first place, you would need to know the size. For example, if the hotspot is half the moon, it may only take 1 guess. But if it's only 1% of the surface area, then your chances of hitting it are only 1% each time you move, so it will take many blind attempts before someone gets greater than 50% and you are able to hone in on it, as Slayer mentioned. The size doesn´t matter, if you are smart enough you need only 3 coordinate sets with a different efficiency than 50%. Then you can use triangulation, that kind of stuff was first used in WWII to locate submarines, today GPS is using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDelirium Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 The size doesn´t matter, if you are smart enough you need only 3 coordinate sets with a different efficiency than 50%. Then you can use triangulation, that kind of stuff was first used in WWII to locate submarines, today GPS is using it. What he is saying is that the hot spot might be very small, and it might take many guesses to find somewhere that has larger than 50% eff. We do not know how big the area that gives more than 50% eff is. 90% of the moons surface could be at 50%, thus making the odds of getting 3 wonders in that zone rather low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer42_au Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Even a minimal (50%) result helps locate the hotspot, in that it indicates a zone (disc) which does not contain the hotspot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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