Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 "Unless you bind yourselves with words and not with the spirit of intent. The Empire will break a treaty rather than burn alone. It is understood that nations will reciprocate when atrocities are committed against it if those atrocities are great enough. Deterrence is a logical norm." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedran Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Thadon could argue details with the man all day and still not get anywhere. So he took another approach. "I suggest the wording of Article III be changed to label only first-strike nuclear attacks a war crime rather than all nuclear attacks. This keeps the intent of the article mostly intact and does not require my country to go against its policies in signing the Convention." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 "Sounds good to me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedran Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) "I present the following amended draft to the gathered representatives." Preamble:We, the undersigned nations and leaders, do hereby agree to refrain from certain actions during time of war to better ensure the protection of non-combatants. Article I: Definitions The following actions (further defined below) shall be know as War Crimes and shall not be undertaken by signatories of this document. 1. Development, storage or use of bio-weaponry. 2. Use of strategic or tactical nuclear or radiological weapons (not including depleted uranium rounds) on a first-strike basis. 3. Excessive use of force against non-combatants. 4. Excessive use of force against surrendered combatants. Article II: Bio-Weaponry No signatory of this document shall, directly or indirectly, develop or store weapons-grade viral, bacterial, or other infections diseases. Furthermore, no signatory shall intentionally aid in the spread of a viral, bacterial or other infections disease, regardless of its grade, amongst combatants or non-combatants of any nation. Article III: Nuclear Weaponry No signatory shall initiate a first-strike nuclear attack (with a fission or fusion device) upon any other nation. If two nations launch simultaneously (within 5 minutes of each other), both are considered at fault under this Convention, and if either or both of them is a signatory, appropriate punitive action will be taken as specified in Article VII, Section 1. Article IV: Treatment of Non-Combatants No signatory shall exercise excessive force against non-combatants of any nation. Excessive force against civilians includes but is not limited to: genocide, mass-murder, relocation (other than for their own protection), inhumane relocation (for any reason), and failure to provide reasonable and proper care to the non-combatants under one's control. Violations will be dealt with as specified by Article VII, Section 2. Article V: Treatment of Surrendered Combatants No signatory shall exercise excessive force against combatants who reasonably and obviously surrender. Excessive force against surrendered combatants includes but is not limited to: murder (with or without trial, unless they are convicted of espionage), abuse while under custody, forced interrogation (unless they are convicted of espionage), and failure to provide reasonable and proper care. Article VI: Membership Nations may sign or withdraw from this agreement at their own discretion. Nations which are found to have, since the time of their initial signature, violated Article II and/or Article III shall be removed and/or prevented from resigning this document for a period of two years (four if both articles have been violated). Additional non-military measures by signatories against the violating nation are encouraged but not required. Article VII: Punitive Action 1. Violations of Articles II and III will be punished by removal of the offending state from the Convention, after which the offending state is unable to sign the Convention for a period of two (four if both articles have been violated) years (OOC: RL months) from the time of the expulsion. Additionally, a tribunal will decide whether the offending nation's defense minister (or equivalent) was responsible, or if the head of state or head of government was responsible, or if a third party, acting independently, was responsible. The tribunal will next decide whether the persons found guilty (if any) will receive a life sentence or a death sentence. Finally, the tribunal will decide in which signatory country the offender will serve his or her sentence. If the tribunal is unable to come to a decision regarding who is responsible, the nation's removal from the Convention is all that is required. Development or storage of bio-weaponry without its use will only result in expulsion. No trials will be conducted. 2. Violations of Articles IV and V will be punished by the offender and his or her commanding officer being brought before a tribunal. The tribunal will then decide who is guilty and will proceed as specified in Article VII, Section 1. Violations of Articles IV and V do not require the removal of any signatory. Article VIII: Tribunals After a violation has been brought to the attention of the signatories, a tribunal will be formed, including 1 person from each signatory (that was a signatory at the time of the violation), and 1 person from the victim nation if the victim nation is not a party to the Convention. If the victim is a signatory, then that nation will get 2 places on the tribunal. After a trial is over and all that is left is for the sentence to be carried out., the tribunal will be dissolved. Edited July 23, 2009 by Vedran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Davis signed again, Anthony Davis, Signing for the Dragon Empire Office of Triumvirate Adviser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Here is a copy of the Dominion's own alternative doctrine. We feel this is a bit more specific, and allows particular exceptions rather than generalizes and blanket bans. It also covers a bit more than just war, but also the prewar and post war behavior of a nation. In the interest of establishing acceptable practices in warfare the following shall be the standards to which we hold ourselves in any and all conflict, and the standard to which we will hold our enemies. Assuming victory, violations committed unto us by any nation or people, or by us unto any nation or people may be considered a war crime.Article I: Definitions Civilian Entity: Any structure, facility, or person which does not contribute to or effect the ability of the enemy nation to conduct a policy of war. (Example: School) Facilitating Entity: Any structure, person, or facility which facilitates the war effort. (Example: Factory) Military Entity: Any structure, facility or person which directly carries out an enemy nation's policy of war. (Example: Military Base) Lawful Combatant: An individual who is a recognized member of a enemy nation's armed forces, and which operates under a distinguishable uniform bearing the markings of that nation's military. Unlawful Combatant: An individual who who is not a recognized member of an enemy nation's armed forces, and which is not operating under a distinguishable uniform. Any combatant who is attempting to conceal their national identity. (Example: Spy, Terrorist, Unsanctioned militia, guerrilla forces). Surrendered Unit: A former Military entity which is attempting to surrender to an enemy force be it voluntarily or under coercion. Unrecognized Prisoner: Any unlawful combatant which has surrendered and has not been recognized as a prisoner of war. Prisoner of War: Any lawful combatant which has surrendered and has had this state recognized by the enemy force. Upper Government: Any organ that is part of the decision making process responsible for the execution of the war is classified as Military Entities (Example: Parliament). Lower Government: Any organ of government aiding in the execution of the war shall be labeled as Facilitating Entity (Example: Civil Service). Democratic Nation: A nation where the "people" form the sovereign base of the government, and are therefore responsible for the actions of the government. Authoritarian Nation: A nation where the "state" and the "people" are separated and where control of a nation is determined by instruments of coercion thereby exonerating the people of responsability for their government. Torture: Any method of interrogation which physically harms the body of the interrogated individual, and is designed to produce pain or suffering. (Example: Cutting, Electroshock, Burning) Biological Warfare: The use of pathogens, and living micro-organisms as weapons in war. Strategic: In a large scale often effecting civilian, and facilitating entities in addition to military entities. (Example: Large scale nuclear weapon.) Tactical: Smaller scale limited to single battles, generally only effecting military entities. (Example: Tactical nuclear weapon) Article II: Axioms of War 1. War should only be used defensively to safeguard against violations of a nation's sovereignty, or threats to the safety and welfare of a nation's people. War is pre-emptively justified when the presupposed threat has demonstrated an intent to violate said nation's sovereignty or the harm the safety and welfare of said nation's people and when engaging in a pre-emptive war would lessen the severity and shorten the inevitable defensive war. 2. In a time of war the targeting of facilitating and military entities is acceptable as their state of existence has a direct effect on the ability of the enemy nation to conduct war. Conversely the targeting of civilian entities is unacceptable as they have no bearing on the war itself. The elimination of a civilian entity is only acceptable when doing so is necessary and balanced by the targeting of facilitating or military entities. Attacks, if possible should be conducted, and timed in such a way as to minimize the damage done to civilian entities. 3. Occupied population centers and territories should be administrated by occupying forces fairly and with minimal intervention in the lives of those living within them. Civilian entities under the control of occupying forces should not be ill treated or abused unless such treatment is necessitated by criminal activity (Exampled: Detainment of Criminals). 4. In a time of war, prisoner of war status should always be extended to surrendered units who were lawful combatants at the time of surrender. Upon said status being conferred the prisoner of war should be detained in sanitary facilities and cared for in a humane way by the host nation until the conclusion of the war or a prisoner exchange. Prisoners of war must not be subjected to ill treatment, execution, or torture. Lawful combatants who surrender in an injured state, or incur injury as a prisoner of war are due quality medical treatment by the host nation. If a surrendered unit is an unlawful combatant at the time of surrender, then they may be considered an unrecognized prisoner by the host nation. Unrecognized prisoners are not protected by this doctrine. 5. Biological warfare is unacceptable and the use of biological weapons, development, storage, trafficking, or sale of them is strictly forbidden. Chemical, and Nuclear weapons are tolerable weapons of mass destruction, and may be developed and maintained for use in war. 6. Nuclear weapons will never be used strategically in a first strike capacity. Tactical use is not prohibited, but is discouraged and should only be used when all other possible alternatives have been exhausted. 7. Economic reparations and sanctions should never be demanded of a defending nation nor should they be demanded of an aggressive Authoritarian Nation as they punish the citizens or subjects of that nation for actions they are not responsible for. Reparations or sanctions may be levied against aggressive democratic nations as their people bare responsability for their government's actions. Citizens belonging to authoritarian nations should also be treated with greater leniency and consideration for the before mentioned reason. 8. Unless there is a cultural, or strategic reason, territory gained during war war should not be absorbed into the occupying nation but should be either given to a successor state, or maintained as an antonymous protectorate. Article III: Violations Post war a special commission will be called to investigate war crimes, a tribunal of officials representing the signatories will then be set up to decide punishment. As the nature of an offense may be diverse there is no set punishment. Depending on the nature of the offense anything from simple removal, to execution may be issued. Signatures Thomas Devereaux: Imperial Regent of the Dominion Edited July 24, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 OOC: oh damn!! sorry guys, i completely forgot about attending this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 "Why not sign it? You will be treating any potential POW's you take humanely anyway, nor will you be developing weapons for use on noncombatants, I am sure, considering your origins. What do you lose by signing it?" "We lose our ability to develop nuclear weapons in the future, if we see a need for them. At any rate, the Dominion's alternative is, by far, a better treaty to sign than the original. We will sign the Alternative Treaty." For the Republic of Aiginor, Kyle Lucas President of Aiginor Gabriel Bevan Vice-President of Aiginor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silhouette Posted July 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 We propose one last ammendment, directly to that proposed by dominion. Which shall read: Treatment of wounded combatants. Any wounded combatant is guaranteed the right to recognised, competent, medical care. Signatories agree to provide such care for any combatant in such need, be they friend or foe. Such care shall continue until such time as the individual is stable enough to be transported to a Prisoner of War facility, or they can be returned to their nation of origin. Extradition of an individual is only guaranteed if the combatant in question is no longer physically or mentally capable of returning to battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedran Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) "The Dominion's war doctrine will make a good Convention. Though I believe Article III should be amended so that instead of simply eight people serving on the commission, each signatory appoints one. That said, I have no objections to being a party to this." Signed for Arctica: Thadon I Thurokiir of Arctica Edited July 23, 2009 by Vedran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 "The Dominion's proposal is by far the best, but we shall wait on signing any document until everyone has agreed." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 We shall not sign any of the agreements put forward while we do not support it we will reserve the right to use Biological weapons when hit by similar ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 "I'm sure my nation would be more than happy to sign the document put forth by the Dominion, especially if the ammendment proposed by New Cymru is approved. I do approve of it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iKrolm Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) I have 2 reservations in Article 2, Section 5: First, it does not ban the storage of bio-weapons and second, I would not go so far as to say Nuclear weapons are acceptable, but merely tolerated. Otherwise, it is satisfactory. Signed for The Nation of Selenarctos, IKrolm, Benevolent Dictator for Life Alejandro Tiempo, Security Division Second Director Edited July 23, 2009 by iKrolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingChris Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Telegram to Sydney from the Vatican: Would it be alright to send a few Cardinals to represent the Church in this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 The Church is not a nation, so I do not believe that is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) We altered the original document to reflect the suggestions made. Combatants who surrender are now due medical treatment if needed, acceptable has been changed to tolerable, and the structure of the war crimes tribunal has been changed. Those that have not already signed but would like to may do so now. In the interest of establishing acceptable practices in warfare the following shall be the standards to which we hold ourselves in any and all conflict, and the standard to which we will hold our enemies. Assuming victory, violations committed unto us by any nation or people, or by us unto any nation or people may be considered a war crime.Article I: Definitions Civilian Entity: Any structure, facility, or person which does not contribute to or effect the ability of the enemy nation to conduct a policy of war. (Example: School) Facilitating Entity: Any structure, person, or facility which facilitates the war effort. (Example: Factory) Military Entity: Any structure, facility or person which directly carries out an enemy nation's policy of war. (Example: Military Base) Lawful Combatant: An individual who is a recognized member of a enemy nation's armed forces, and which operates under a distinguishable uniform bearing the markings of that nation's military. Unlawful Combatant: An individual who who is not a recognized member of an enemy nation's armed forces, and which is not operating under a distinguishable uniform. Any combatant who is attempting to conceal their national identity. (Example: Spy, Terrorist, Unsanctioned militia, guerrilla forces). Surrendered Unit: A former Military entity which is attempting to surrender to an enemy force be it voluntarily or under coercion. Unrecognized Prisoner: Any unlawful combatant which has surrendered and has not been recognized as a prisoner of war. Prisoner of War: Any lawful combatant which has surrendered and has had this state recognized by the enemy force. Upper Government: Any organ that is part of the decision making process responsible for the execution of the war is classified as Military Entities (Example: Parliament). Lower Government: Any organ of government aiding in the execution of the war shall be labeled as Facilitating Entity (Example: Civil Service). Democratic Nation: A nation where the "people" form the sovereign base of the government, and are therefore responsible for the actions of the government. Authoritarian Nation: A nation where the "state" and the "people" are separated and where control of a nation is determined by instruments of coercion thereby exonerating the people of responsability for their government. Torture: Any method of interrogation which physically harms the body of the interrogated individual, and is designed to produce pain or suffering. (Example: Cutting, Electroshock, Burning) Biological Warfare: The use of pathogens, and living micro-organisms as weapons in war. Strategic: In a large scale often effecting civilian, and facilitating entities in addition to military entities. (Example: Large scale nuclear weapon.) Tactical: Smaller scale limited to single battles, generally only effecting military entities. (Example: Tactical nuclear weapon) Article II: Axioms of War 1. War should only be used defensively to safeguard against violations of a nation's sovereignty, or threats to the safety and welfare of a nation's people. War is pre-emptively justified when the presupposed threat has demonstrated an intent to violate said nation's sovereignty or the harm the safety and welfare of said nation's people and when engaging in a pre-emptive war would lessen the severity and shorten the inevitable defensive war. 2. In a time of war the targeting of facilitating and military entities is acceptable as their state of existence has a direct effect on the ability of the enemy nation to conduct war. Conversely the targeting of civilian entities is unacceptable as they have no bearing on the war itself. The elimination of a civilian entity is only acceptable when doing so is necessary and balanced by the targeting of facilitating or military entities. Attacks, if possible should be conducted, and timed in such a way as to minimize the damage done to civilian entities. 3. Occupied population centers and territories should be administrated by occupying forces fairly and with minimal intervention in the lives of those living within them. Civilian entities under the control of occupying forces should not be ill treated or abused unless such treatment is necessitated by criminal activity (Exampled: Detainment of Criminals). 4. In a time of war, prisoner of war status should always be extended to surrendered units who were lawful combatants at the time of surrender. Upon said status being conferred the prisoner of war should be detained in sanitary facilities and cared for in a humane way by the host nation until the conclusion of the war or a prisoner exchange. Prisoners of war must not be subjected to ill treatment, execution, or torture. Lawful combatants who surrender in an injured state, or incur injury as a prisoner of war are due quality medical treatment by the host nation. If a surrendered unit is an unlawful combatant at the time of surrender, then they may be considered an unrecognized prisoner by the host nation. Unrecognized prisoners are not protected by this doctrine. 5. Biological warfare is unacceptable and the use of biological weapons, development, storage, trafficking, or sale of them is strictly forbidden. Chemical, and Nuclear weapons are tolerable weapons of mass destruction, and may be developed and maintained for use in war. 6. Nuclear weapons will never be used strategically in a first strike capacity. Tactical use is not prohibited, but is discouraged and should only be used when all other possible alternatives have been exhausted. 7. Economic reparations and sanctions should never be demanded of a defending nation nor should they be demanded of an aggressive Authoritarian Nation as they punish the citizens or subjects of that nation for actions they are not responsible for. Reparations or sanctions may be levied against aggressive democratic nations as their people bare responsability for their government's actions. Citizens belonging to authoritarian nations should also be treated with greater leniency and consideration for the before mentioned reason. 8. Unless there is a cultural, or strategic reason, territory gained during war war should not be absorbed into the occupying nation but should be either given to a successor state, or maintained as an antonymous protectorate. Article III: Violations Post war a special commission will be called to investigate war crimes, a tribunal of officials representing the signatories will then be set up to decide punishment. As the nature of an offense may be diverse there is no set punishment. Depending on the nature of the offense anything from simple removal, to execution may be issued. Article IV: Signatures For the Dominion: Thomas Devereaux: Imperial Regent of the Dominion For the Republic of Aiginor: Kyle Lucas President of Aiginor Gabriel Bevan Vice-President of Aiginor For Arctica: Thadon I Thurokiir of Arctica For The Nation of Selenarctos: IKrolm, Benevolent Dictator for Life Alejandro Tiempo, Security Division Second Director For the Promised Land: Westly Davies, Supreme General For the Dragon Empire: Anthony Davis Office of the Triumvirate Adviser For the Republic of Euzkadi: President Jose Aizpurua Karla Arzalluz, Minister of Foreign Affairs For the People's Republic of China: Premier Rorschach Adam Brody, Communist Party President For Zargathia: HRH Queen Amyante Tojimaru Transitionary government of Zargathia Edited July 24, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) At that moment, an aide would walk into the room bearing a paper. On it waould be the following note. "Consider this my signature for this document. I have been sent a copy, and it meets my approval." ~Westly Davies, Supreme General Edited July 24, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 For the Dragon Empire, Anthony Davis Office of the Triumvirate Adviser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Despite our delegation failing to attend the Republic of Euzkadi supports the measures outlined, with the blessing of the delegates actually in attendence we too would like to add our signature to this document. For the Republic of Euzkadi,President Jose Aizpurua Karla Arzalluz, Minister of Foreign Affairs. Edited July 24, 2009 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Despite our delegation failing to attend the Republic of Euzkadi supports the measures outlined, with the blessing of the delegates actually in attendence we too would like to add our signature to this document. You may certainly sign. Edited July 24, 2009 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 "Signed for the People's Republic of China Premier Rorschach Adam Brody, Communist Party President. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amyante Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) OOC: At work atm, sorry for the less than usual posting quality. After spending a couple of minutes on the phone with her prime minister discussing the details, Amyante snapped the mobile phone shut and signed the document. Signed:(scribble) HRH Queen Amyante Tojimaru Transitionary government of Zargathia "By the way, while the Church would not be able to join as an active participant, we feel there would be no harm if they sent a representative to witness and report on this event for them." Edited July 24, 2009 by Amyante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 "We feel the church need not mess with what nations are discussing over such a subject. While they mean no harm, we have no need for them here." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 You may certainly sign. Then i hereby confirm the Republic of Euzkadi's intention to sign this document and to implement its directives as part of state policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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