Foreign Affairs Dispatch from the New Pacific Order.

[Haflinger]

No, they did not, as MHA government members admitted immediately after NPO's declaration.

We're not going to get anywhere if you think that somehow MHA was the only major alliance that didn't know NPO was close to war with OV.

For about a week, which is more than 24 hours.

IRON most certainly didn't declare war on MHA. If you think along the lines that "an attack on one is considered an attack on its treaty partners," then NPO violated III.D in declaring war on OV.

Obviously I don't think along those lines.

Also I must be missing the famous OV-MHA MDP.

I don't see the word "bandwagoners" in the treaty, nor do I see a non-chaining clause, nor would a non-chaining clause apply to every attacker that declared on NPO.

If you examine my commentary on that section, I am attempting to explain MHA's logic, not justify it.

[Ragashingo]

Why are so many of you acting as if the NPO is only just now doing what its membership wants? Do ya'll seriously think that the countless wars and curbstoms the NPO took part in were against the wishes of the average NPO member? Of course they weren't!

NPO members on the whole liked what their government was doing and supported it. They weren't do gooders that joined and stayed with the NPO hoping they could civilize it, and they weren't some oppressed lower class that was set against the atrocities but had no voice in what their leaders choose to do. No, these people joined the NPO because they enjoyed bullying individuals and whole alliances. They enjoyed being loud mouthed jerks who repeated what their leaders told them. They enjoyed not having to face the consequences of their actions and the actions of their alliance. They enjoyed all those things until it finally caught up to them.

The NPO leadership screwed up by starting the Karma War but they aren't stupid. I think they do realize they are no longer in their positions of invincibility and they are making some changes because of it. But are the NPO leaders suddenly listening to the opinion of rank and file NPOers because of the Karma War? I doubt it. Rather I think the members are just following the will of the leaders as they've always done. The leaders are still the leaders and the member are still the members. The first is still generally approved of by the second, and the second still has as much right to speak out against policies as they always have. Nothing in that relationship has changed.

[Archon]

Oh hey, we haven't announced that cancellation yet have we...oops?

[Dontasemebro]

The RIA regrets to inform you that we are indeed.

[Stonewall Jaxon]

We're not going to get anywhere if you think that somehow MHA was the only major alliance that didn't know NPO was close to war with OV.

For about a week, which is more than 24 hours.

You honestly think that counts? If an MHA government member at any point looked at the declaration of war and did not know it was to be posted that night, then NPO violated the treaty.

Obviously I don't think along those lines.

If you don't think along those lines, MHA attacked IRON; that's a simple fact. Your thinking that MHA attacked IRON is somehow diluted because of pieces of paper is irrelevant to the treaty.

If you examine my commentary on that section, I am attempting to explain MHA's logic, not justify it.

So then you do not deny that the MHA-NPO treaty was violated?

[crazyisraelie]

Oh hey, we haven't announced that cancellation yet have we...oops?

Does it really matter anymore?

[Archon]

Does it really matter anymore?

I think the question people would ask is did it ever?

[crazyisraelie]

Oh that is evil.

[Trinite]

So then you do not deny that the MHA-NPO treaty was violated?

I think the point is that it is irrelevant. More importantly it's irrelevant to this thread. If you're going to e-lawyer a treaty your not a party to, at least do it in a thread about that treaty.

I can't believe this was still around. Kind of random. A little insane.

[Rebel Virginia]

Interesting to say the least... I mean, the treaty was violated thrice over during the war (NPO's attack on OV, MHA's attack on IRON, and MHA's refusal to defend NPO).

MHA was never allied with OV. In fact, OV only had treaties with VE, GOD, and Vanguard, none of which were allied to the NPO.

Anyway, would you like to inform me why people are criticizing the NPO for canceling this treaty here? I'm pretty sure that I can swear you people would be singing an entirely different tune if it were the RIA making this announcement? Is this just double standards at work here, or are you people so blinded by your hatred of the NPO that you will bash them for anything? Even if they haven't done a thing.

[Ragashingo]

MHA was never allied with OV. In fact, OV only had treaties with VE, GOD, and Vanguard, none of which were allied to the NPO.

Anyway, would you like to inform me why people are criticizing the NPO for canceling this treaty here? I'm pretty sure that I can swear you people would be singing an entirely different tune if it were the RIA making this announcement? Is this just double standards at work here, or are you people so blinded by your hatred of the NPO that you will bash them for anything? Even if they haven't done a thing.

They held onto a worthless treaty for too long. Thats a thing.

[Rebel Virginia]

They held onto a worthless treaty for too long. Thats a thing.

Others have done that as well. In fact, most alliances hold dozens of worthless treaties. Why don't I see you criticizing them? What makes the NPO? And furthermore, if you criticize the NPO for holding onto this treaty, why don't you say the same things to the RIA?

[Ragashingo]

Others have done that as well. In fact, most alliances hold dozens of worthless treaties. Why don't I see you criticizing them? What makes the NPO? And furthermore, if you criticize the NPO for holding onto this treaty, why don't you say the same things to the RIA?

Yes, you're right, anyone holding onto a worthless treaty is dumb for doing so. RIA included. Anything else?

Edited July 15, 2009 by Ragashingo

[mmansfield68]

I never understood why this was signed in the first place

Comrade D34th, I love you! Yours is THE post of the thread.

[Rebel Virginia]

Yes, you're right, anyone holding onto a worthless treaty is dumb for doing so. RIA included. Anything else?

Thank you for admitting the error of your ways. Now, since you have nothing more to say, why say anything? You admit that the NPO is no different than any other alliance in this aspect, so why single them out? It is almost as if you people harbor a petty grudge against them or something.

[Electric Mango]

I just hope my friends in the RIA can fully recover from this shocking turn of events. If any RIA member needs private counseling, please shoot me off a PM.

[Ragashingo]

Thank you for admitting the error of your ways. Now, since you have nothing more to say, why say anything? You admit that the NPO is no different than any other alliance in this aspect, so why single them out? It is almost as if you people harbor a petty grudge against them or something.

Heh. I made no error and have admitted none. And people do hold a grudge. If I recall there actually was a war that involved the NPO and their past actions. You may have heard of it.

[Rebel Virginia]

Heh. I made no error and have admitted none. And people do hold a grudge. If I recall there actually was a war that involved the NPO and their past actions. You may have heard of it.

Yes, and if I recall correctly the NPO has been beaten, their hegemony destroyed, and the objective of this war completed. Yet you people still try to impose harsher terms on them than they ever gave anyone, and insult them at any opportunity. At this point it is little more than throwing salt onto an open wound, and tells me that you are just as cruel and petty as they ever were. It is like you hate them because they remind you so much of yourself.

[Ragashingo]

Yes, and if I recall correctly the NPO has been beaten, their hegemony destroyed, and the objective of this war completed. Yet you people still try to impose harsher terms on them than they ever gave anyone, and insult them at any opportunity. At this point it is little more than throwing salt onto an open wound, and tells me that you are just as cruel and petty as they ever were. It is like you hate them because they remind you so much of yourself.

Harsher terms? Absolutely false. And I don't hate them because they remind me of myself. I've never been on the wrong side. They have.

[Sir Paul]

I think the question people would ask is did it ever?

I think the treaty is still valid until it has been announced per the document. I've been operating under the assumption the PIAT is still valid. I figured you guys were staying classy and were not going to cancel it during a war.

[Rebel Virginia]

Harsher terms? Absolutely false. And I don't hate them because they remind me of myself. I've never been on the wrong side. They have.

I don't think anyone can deny that the terms given to them are simply ridiculous, and quite vindictive. Not meant for anything other than to embarrass them and get revenge. You aren't interested in justice, just to humiliate them and set the seeds of resentment in them, and start the whole cycle over again. As Sponge has said countless times, the cycle needs to be broken somewhere, but you people are too petty to step up to the plate. And your responses to the NPO simply canceling a dead treaty shows that. I can guarantee you that would not be giving RIA a hard time had they been the ones to do announcement. When will you people simply let go of your grudge?

[Sir Paul]

I don't think anyone can deny that the terms given to them are simply ridiculous, and quite vindictive. Not meant for anything other than to embarrass them and get revenge. You aren't interested in justice, just to humiliate them and set the seeds of resentment in them, and start the whole cycle over again. As Sponge has said countless times, the cycle needs to be broken somewhere, but you people are too petty to step up to the plate. And your responses to the NPO simply canceling a dead treaty shows that. I can guarantee you that would not be giving RIA a hard time had they been the ones to do announcement. When will you people simply let go of your grudge?

Mr. Virginia, Archon promised that Karma will fight with honor and will not issue draconian terms. Karma's conduct during this war will be the standard of honor and mercy that all alliances in the future shall follow.

[Rebel Virginia]

Mr. Virginia, Archon promised that Karma will fight with honor and will not issue draconian terms. Karma's conduct during this war will be the standard of honor and mercy that all alliances in the future shall follow.

Well then, I guess Mr. Ragashingo can rest assured that he has fought hard to build a better a world. A world in which people do not have to submit to the NPO's tyranny, but can instead go off and make their own. It almost brings a tear to my eye. They grow up so fast.

[Ragashingo]

I don't think anyone can deny that the terms given to them are simply ridiculous, and quite vindictive. Not meant for anything other than to embarrass them and get revenge. You aren't interested in justice, just to humiliate them and set the seeds of resentment in them, and start the whole cycle over again. As Sponge has said countless times, the cycle needs to be broken somewhere, but you people are too petty to step up to the plate. And your responses to the NPO simply canceling a dead treaty shows that. I can guarantee you that would not be giving RIA a hard time had they been the ones to do announcement. When will you people simply let go of your grudge?

The terms are not harsher. The ones offering the terms are very much interested in justice. It's the NPO's choice to resent being justly punished for two plus years of atrocities. In fact it's the wrong choice but that won't stop them. And your guarantee is worthless. Have I not already said I thought RIA among everyone else who did so was wrong to hold onto a worthless treaty? Forget about that already? I do find your wish for everyone to have amnesia about the NPO's past activities amusing though.

[Rebel Virginia]

The terms are not harsher. The ones offering the terms are very much interested in justice. It's the NPO's choice to resent being justly punished for two plus years of atrocities. In fact it's the wrong choice but that won't stop them. And your guarantee is worthless. Have I not already said I thought RIA among everyone else who did so was wrong to hold onto a worthless treaty? Forget about that already? I do find your wish for everyone to have amnesia about the NPO's past activities amusing though.

So your terms are justice, yet the terms NPO gave to GATO and others aren't? They were certainly justified in their eyes? Tell me, what makes it righteous when you do it? Also, do not question my memory, for I have not forgotten what they have done. But just because they did this things does not give you the right to.

Now, tell me, are you sure people would target RIA just as they did NPO had they been the ones to cancel the treaty? Maybe you can speak for yourself, but can you speak for the world? I think not, and being the judge of character that I am, I can tell you that they wouldn't dare say anything negative about anyone other than the NPO. Why? Because the NPO is a weak target, and just like the NPO, Karma is characterized by bullies who love an easy target to demonstrate their "strength" on. Human nature really, so I can't blame them for doing it. It's not like they can help being what they are.

Also, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from editing my statements. Thank you.

Edited July 15, 2009 by Rebel Virginia