Hey Guys

[HeinousOne]

Yeah, but that doesn't work so well when there's one person without nukes fighting a guy with nukes.

Anyway, there are 58 NPO nations in Peace Mode with 25k + NS...

Assuming each of those nations sent 6 x 3 Million aid packages they could more more than 1 trillion dollars every 10 days. Just interesting. I mean, not all of those are banks but I would assume most are. I just find it interesting because NPO has certainly preserved a serious core.

Which will then be responsible for paying some of the largest reparation amounts ever, meanwhile the bill locked lower nations will have to find ways to help rebuild each other.

[Deuterium Dawn]

Its funny how people think that the whole story is that which they are told and that there is never more to the story.

Let me rephrase then. Not any open direct conflict. As for the lack of wars on NPO, I'd chalk it up to apathy at this point.

[mattski133]

It's not just ZIed nations being ignored. I'm at 1k infra and have been for some time (I keep rebuying in order to nuke), but in my last two times out of hippy I've been hit one time each and then let go. Face it, most of the alliances still on the Karma side on paper have effectively backed out, authorizing NPO/TPF for raids but not making any kind of attempt at coordinated war. Even among those still fighting, many nations are tired of the war and/or don't want to get nuked anymore.

-Bama

I read up to here, just a few comments-

It's not good strategy to put 3 nations on 1 nation in nuclear war, especially if that nation has excessive military wonders that Karma's nations at that strength most certainly do not (even if they have nukes...which is hard to find these days). I flat out refuse to commit my soldiers to a losing battle if we can win by NOT fighting. If the opportunity to break even comes up, then that is something to consider; so far it has not.

Most of the arguments I've seen here suggest that we should toss aside our tactics and barrel full on into a losing war. I'd expect nothing less from our enemies

[Kiss Goodbye]

Yeah, but that doesn't work so well when there's one person without nukes fighting a guy with nukes.

It still works the same way, actually, just with regular battle defeat alerts rather than nukes. Sure, you're getting nuked daily but it beats 3 people getting nuked daily, and the target is still turtling with 0 troops. It is not fun to be a part of that process but you need to make them burn through their warchest, and a defeat alert every day means -$5m per day, plus bills for improvements/wonders, plus cost of buying/firing nukes.

The unlucky lower-tier nations suffer that process, and it sucks to be them, but what else can you do when your opponent has a multi billion-dollar warchest?

They're going to be ruining someone's day either way, and if you keep 'em from reaching peacemode, they can't reload and declare on THREE nations of that size to wreak even more havoc.

That's not what's going on with NPO. That's what was done to Valhalla.

Check the link in my sig; it shows Bakunin's miraculous escape.

I'm sure that was what was intended to be done with NPO. Mistakes are made, some very high profile.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Kiss Goodbye

[Drostan]

It still works the same way, actually, just with regular battle defeat alerts rather than nukes. Sure, you're getting nuked daily but it beats 3 people getting nuked daily, and the target is still turtling with 0 troops. It is not fun to be a part of that process but you need to make them burn through their warchest, and a defeat alert every day means -$5m per day, plus bills for improvements/wonders, plus cost of buying/firing nukes.

The unlucky lower-tier nations suffer that process, and it sucks to be them, but what else can you do when your opponent has a multi billion-dollar warchest?

They're going to be ruining someone's day either way, and if you keep 'em from reaching peacemode, they can't reload and declare on THREE nations of that size to wreak even more havoc.

I'm sure that was what was intended to be done with NPO. Mistakes are made, some very high profile.

Meh, the weakest are rebuilt fastest. Though I will say that war has truly gotten boring when this is the best it can offer. Having them out there with their 0 soldiers and their 20 nukes is super annoying. Admin needs to do something about the turtling dynamic in this game (aware that the defeat alert with 0 soldiers was a partial address to this).

[HeinousOne]

Let me rephrase then. Not any open direct conflict. As for the lack of wars on NPO, I'd chalk it up to apathy at this point.

I was commenting on your post as in it was a reply to someone who was failing to recognize that which I said in response to your post. Sorry for the confusion DD. I agree with you.

I read up to here, just a few comments-

It's not good strategy to put 3 nations on 1 nation in nuclear war, especially if that nation has excessive military wonders that Karma's nations at that strength most certainly do not (even if they have nukes...which is hard to find these days). I flat out refuse to commit my soldiers to a losing battle if we can win by NOT fighting. If the opportunity to break even comes up, then that is something to consider; so far it has not.

Most of the arguments I've seen here suggest that we should toss aside our tactics and barrel full on into a losing war. I'd expect nothing less from our enemies

Your enemies huh?

Meh, the weakest are rebuilt fastest. Though I will say that war has truly gotten boring when this is the best it can offer. Having them out there with their 0 soldiers and their 20 nukes is super annoying. Admin needs to do something about the turtling dynamic in this game (aware that the defeat alert with 0 soldiers was a partial address to this).

Admin needs to do something about the turtling aspect of the game so that you have an easier time destroying other's nations?

You do realize that nations pay admin because they want to build their nations? Why would Admin make it easier for people to destroy such? It would have an adverse affect opposite of that which I am sure he would desire. That being more funds coming in instead of less due to people having no way to protect themselves from a constant beatdown with very limited cost to those delivering the beatdown.

Here is an idea, try not to be so much like that which you detest and you probably wont find so many problems with the system.

Edited July 13, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Ogaden]

When did STA become enemies of Sparta?

[KingSuck]

you know, if you want to pressure NPO into taking your ridiculous terms this probably isn't the way to do it

[Seerow]

you know, if you want to pressure NPO into taking your ridiculous terms this probably isn't the way to do it

Just because some people were given white peace they don't deserve doesn't mean everyone will.

But please keep on talking, I'm counting down the days until your surrender protection ends.

[Drostan]

I was commenting on your post as in it was a reply to someone who was failing to recognize that which I said in response to your post. Sorry for the confusion DD. I agree with you.

Your enemies huh?

Admin needs to do something about the turtling aspect of the game so that you have an easier time destroying other's nations?

You do realize that nations pay admin because they want to build their nations? Why would Admin make it easier for people to destroy such? It would have an adverse affect opposite of that which I am sure he would desire. That being more funds coming in instead of less due to people having no way to protect themselves from a constant beatdown with very limited cost to those delivering the beatdown.

Here is an idea, try not to be so much like that which you detest and you probably wont find so many problems with the system.

This is an out-of-character forum just in case some of you might not know what that means.

Yes, admin wants to get paid. I don't care though. I want to play a game that is fun. And as it stands now, there are a lot of stale points in this game that would be more fun (if not more lucrative) if admin were to add features to deal with them. Like wonders for very large nations etc. More specific content. I also think more spy operations (I know he just rolled some new ones out) that would make it more difficult for an entire alliance to stay in peace mode forever or to simply maintain 0 soldiers forever.

Here is an idea, make some sense. What are you talking about? I don't detest anything being discussed I simply find months of turtling pretty boring. I know that you don't role play and when you're mad you're really mad, but not everyone completely fails to separate their views on the game from their views in the game.

Many may get mad but I find it personally hilarious that people spend real money on this game monthly. If anything that makes destroying whatever they've built far more interesting because I know they won't be able to maintain ooc/ic lines as they're spending their ooc money on it.

Don't worry, I'm not done. Despite the hilariously passionate comment form Heinous One about those poor folks struggling to pay admin his 20$ a month to inflate their nations, there were other things that deserve attention here too.

James Dahl: Heinous One isn't even quoting me when he quotes the "enemies" comment if you bothered to see to whom the quote is attributed. STA are not Sparta's enemies at least in so far as I am aware.

As for pressuring the NPO to take our ridiculous terms... *sigh* I am hardly spewing propaganda on the OWF ooc forums to pursuade NPO to do anything. In fact, I don't even know what you could mean by that comment. I have said that it seems weak that often there is only one person fighting those few nations from NPO who come out of peace mode. If anything that would be me saying "congrats NPO, your tactics are working!" We won't even get into whether or not our terms are as ridiculous as you say because that would be going down a well-travelled tangent that I am frankly sick of hearing about.

Protip for the future: When I am posting in this forum I do so not as my in-character persona who has concerns of the ethics of planet bob and what not but rather as my real life persona who plays this game to kill time and because it offers me amusement. Yes, I want to have an easier time destroying nations and I would hope Admin would give me some sort of special weapon that hurts those who pay real money worse than others. But that is not likely to happen. However, I love the idea and would certainly endorse it. I don't detest anything other than playing games simply out of the inertia of having played them for a long time.

Anyway, this is why I play CN... the angry people.

If you really want to maintain the edge for those willing to spend their real life money on CN, and I am sure Admin will agree with you, why don't we start offering wonders that only MasterCard users can purchase? heh. Or we could add more advertising and brand all the resources in the game to ensure Admin's pockets are sufficiently lined. haha.

Long story short: Admin should give me a special nuke that only I may use whenever I feel like it that not only destroy's the player's nation but breaks his mother's legs in real life while simultaneously winning the lottery. Dante said the most common sin was not being able to imagine a better life for yourself... surely, that is one sin I am not guilty of.

EDIT: Until admin gives me my special weapon I will be forced to use the "wall-of-text" approach.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Drostan

[HeinousOne]

Here is my tip. Post Suggestions for the game in the "Suggestions" forum? Do not complain to me about me going "mad" when I simply call you out for saying there needs to be changes so that your IC actions can be more effective. That is obviously what I was saying even though you were trying to follow the Azhrarn line of thinking of trying to portray me as some half mad raving lunatic who doesnt understand the difference between role play and personal opinion.

Until you have a one on one conversation with me, I assure you that you know nothing about me and the differences between my "role play" and my personal opinions.

Go ahead and continue to make up some more longwinded and insulting posts to defend the fact that you just tried to make a "suggestion" about how admin should change the game in a forum area that does indeed have the two letters RP put back to back in the forum.

[Elendil old]

Anyway, I found no NPO nations out of peace mode above 13k NS or so. I will say though, for being at war with 18 alliances... I am surprised how many people around 10 - 14k NS have only a single war or so.

I found two above 14k, look harder >_>

[logan1]

If the NPO has 0 soldiers, you can't get any money, tech or land from him. You can only bomb him with nukes. And he will nuke you back. Either way you lose more than him now.

I like it the way it is now. NPO is in peacemode, other alliances are outgrowing NPO, NPO is slowly dying due to the economic depression. I think we could keep it like that for a LONG time if we wanted to. NPO just has to surrender eventually because they will realise that this war is benefitting us either way.

We get reps OR we outgrow them due to not having to be in peace mode.

QFT!

i was gonna post the same type of message but you nailed it.

i guess this is why its good to read the whole thread before replying........ even though i only got to this post

[Drostan]

I found two above 14k, look harder >_>

I rounded down in anticipation?

Yeah, I found two that were somewhere around 14, 265 or something. Darkmistress was one of them.

@Heinous: Are you suggesting that Admin remove the RP for the Open World RP Heading so as to make it more clear that this is not an in-character forum? Just kidding. heh. But seriously this is misleading. I agree with that.

I also would like to see all permutations of the phrase "call[ing] x out" relegated to discussions of wrestling drama and stricken from the vernacular of CN posters.

You called me out on my veiled suggestion, atta boy! The difference between me saying purely subjectively that I would like admin to make it harder for people to turtle and objectively posting a suggestion is significant, no?

Anyway, my in-character and out-of-character rant is simply prompted by a total failure to discover what you could have meant by this out-of-character:

try not to be so much like that which you detest

I'd say we're getting off topic but this thread was more or less spam to begin with. In conclusion Karma could be doing a better job attacking NPO nations has a serious plan that involves not fighting very much.

[HeinousOne]

I rounded down in anticipation?

Yeah, I found two that were somewhere around 14, 265 or something. Darkmistress was one of them.

@Heinous: Are you suggesting that Admin remove the RP for the Open World RP Heading so as to make it more clear that this is not an in-character forum? Just kidding. heh. But seriously this is misleading. I agree with that.

I also would like to see all permutations of the phrase "call[ing] x out" relegated to discussions of wrestling drama and stricken from the vernacular of CN posters.

You called me out on my veiled suggestion, atta boy! The difference between me saying purely subjectively that I would like admin to make it harder for people to turtle and objectively posting a suggestion is significant, no?

Anyway, my in-character and out-of-character rant is simply prompted by a total failure to discover what you could have meant by this out-of-character:

I'd say we're getting off topic but this thread was more or less spam to begin with. In conclusion Karma could be doing a better job attacking NPO nations has a serious plan that involves not fighting very much.

Yeah, the title is misleading and I know this is a completely OOC area. It just didnt seem that way when you were making comment about how the turtling affect was making things hard on you guys and your attacks on NPO. This area is supposed to be OOC but quite often that line is crossed so if your intent is to be completely OOC while making a suggestion that would aid you in your IC war then I would highly suggest taking such to the suggestion forum as it becomes a hard sell for you to say that you are saying that in a completely OOC manner.

The topic went off topic when you decided to turn it into a "Droston turns moderator" session and began to judge me and my post. You even say that since you cannot ban me you will just respond with walls of text. Joke or not, it seems you go a bit too far with your judging others of their OOC and IC lines.

[Drostan]

Yeah, the title is misleading and I know this is a completely OOC area. It just didnt seem that way when you were making comment about how the turtling affect was making things hard on you guys and your attacks on NPO. This area is supposed to be OOC but quite often that line is crossed so if your intent is to be completely OOC while making a suggestion that would aid you in your IC war then I would highly suggest taking such to the suggestion forum as it becomes a hard sell for you to say that you are saying that in a completely OOC manner.

The topic went off topic when you decided to turn it into a "Droston turns moderator" session and began to judge me and my post. You even say that since you cannot ban me you will just respond with walls of text. Joke or not, it seems you go a bit too far with your judging others of their OOC and IC lines.

I don't even think you can get in trouble for IC in an OOC area anymore. Only the reverse is true. I don't think I turned moderator so much as around in circles trying to figure out what I was being accused of hating and turning into.

I am turning into a turtle, HAALP!

But anyway, yeah, NPO's turtling is annoying because they are turtles with nuclear weapons that are really small. Ankle-biters are the worst. People don't see the point in bombing a guy with 0 infrastructure and many that small do not have nukes. The lower NS ranks are the hardest to organize and probably have the least discipline. So yeah, it's annoying.

[im317]

what would help is if land was destroyed in defeat alerts. don't get why it isn't. also maybe were just trying to lull NPO into a false sense of security. oh crap, i just gave our plans away.

[Tautology]

I found two above 14k, look harder >_>

I found a couple too.

[HeinousOne]

But anyway, yeah, NPO's turtling is annoying because they are turtles with nuclear weapons that are really small. Ankle-biters are the worst. People don't see the point in bombing a guy with 0 infrastructure and many that small do not have nukes. The lower NS ranks are the hardest to organize and probably have the least discipline. So yeah, it's annoying.

We finally agree. A fine reason for the war to end.

Honestly, all aspects of me just want to move past the war because after it is a new beginning and I am anxious to watch how everyone acts.

[Gn0xious Jr]

The one thing NPO has on Karma is cohesion. Those differences between the alliances you speak of will over time cause tensions depending upon which line of thinking the leaders of such alliances go with. There will come a time, possibly soon or possibly not so soon, when the great threat perceived by NPO begins to be shifted onto others. That is just inevitable. Everyone always points out whom they think is the greatest threat to themselves. It is not propaganda to say that the natural course of events is bound to happen. There might be some folks who would like to stuff up the war so that NPO remains that great threat in the minds of people for as long as possible but it is bound to happen sooner or later that such will fade. When that fades, what do folks want their alliance to be remembered by when the focus of attention is no longer about the NPO?

more sooner than later i'd wager.

if you look at it this way, had the terms been re-negotiated a month ago, granted the only real issue was the PM/14days of war term, then the terms would still have been harsh, yet "deserved" as many have argued. Even IF the NPO rebuilt within 6 months to a sizable force, if they did come looking for an aggressive fight to seek revenge, then they'd seriously lose support.

The longer this thing drags on, not only will Karma not get the result they want (which is a full agreement to the terms as-is) but they'll lose support in the future, if/WHEN the tables are turned. Furthermore, i agree that while the field is being "leveled" all that means is that there is less definition in the powerhouses of the game. It opens for more interesting times, but hopefully, some new precedents will be considered as more and more struggles are bound to happen...

[Gn0xious Jr]

I found two above 14k, look harder >_>

if you can find me some 40-50K NS nations, that's be great

[Jabbawockeez]

Between 10k and 15k Sparta alone has 51 nations...

Sparta doesn't war people, they just kinda put their name down on the DoW, and send their small nations in.

[lordliam]

It probably means they just came out of peace mode and there hasn't been enough time to attack them yet. Though it could also be that the nations you are talking about are nuclear armed 10-15k nations with stacks of wonders and everyone in their range is terrified of them.

Bang! Headshot! Accuracy 160%!

[Drostan]

Sparta doesn't war people, they just kinda put their name down on the DoW, and send their small nations in.

Shhhh, don't reveal our tactics!

Protip: Big nations aren't very helpful when your biggest enemy is 14k NS. heh.

/me DoWs against 'Jabbawockeez' for leaking sensitive information to the general public then readies his hordes of new recruits.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Drostan

[Sande]

I read what has been posted before me... And it was mostly just people twisting facts around...

GR and it's loss. We are losing members every day. Nations being deleted, people leaving for other Karma alliances (Therefore, our side is still as strong as it was before) etc. But if you look at our nations and their growth, you can see that it is bigger than NPO's.

Cold war conflicts... They were way smaller wars than what could have happened if USA and USSR went against each other. Nukes, another 300 million of casualties minimum. Plus the nuclear winter and radiation clouds... So, compared to that, any small war that there is now, is a small vietnam or cuban crisis or whatever. But in this case we know it isn't necessary because we're winning either way. If it does happen or not.

Aiding NPO nations etc... Well, the BIG fact is that you can NOT aid someone when you are in peacemode. Your economy will take a happiness decrease hit when you stay there. You sometimes have to stay there for a long time. You can't do tech deals. You can't do inactivity cycles without being in nuclear anarchy or in great economic depression from being in peacemode for so long.

It doesn't matter if some small amount of aid is sent, our side will send a lot more aid, do tech deals, do inactivity cycles/improvement swaps, won't be in nuclear anarchy when collecting the next 15-19 days of taxes, won't be in peacemode becasue they're scared of the enemy attacking them all the time.

The grass IS greener on our side no matter how you look at it.

Actually, it is glowing green on your side, but that's only cool until the radiation gets onto you.

Any attempts to prove this false amuses me from this place on.