Anyone Else Notice the Tide of...

[Corinan]

NSO is unremarkable. An untouchable clique at the top led by a personality cult dictator while the members sycophantically squabble for the scraps from master's table. Just another run-of-the-mill authoritarian alliance with a twist that actually makes things operationally worse and breeds the most hostile community atmosphere possible.

Edit: And their theme is a joke on the whole. It's an excuse to do whatever they want but beyond that there's very little adherence to Star Wars canon.

Yeah maybe someday we'll get this system of ours refined and then we'll attract legions of players like you have to your Jedi Order.

Haters keep hatin!

Edited July 11, 2009 by Corinan

[Darth Andrew]

I founded the IAA (aka I registered the forums ), and many of the original members (Chimaera, Lavo, Darth Alcroft) are still involved in the alliance, not to mention everyone else that has stayed onboard over the years.

I also attempted an "In Soviet Russia" joke-themed alliance, though I didn't consider the repercussions.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...c=21453&hl=

[Schattenmann]

I think the rise in new AAs is only slightly higher now than it was before. People used the "Pax (lol) Pacifica" to pursue their alliance ideas while things were quiet, and people are using the "new" world to pursue their dreams.

I founded CoJ as an alternative to CN culture. Cloistered, independent, internally-focused, strong RP theme rather than nothing more than a cute forum skin and some foreign words, tiered membership. It's slow going, most people still don't even understand that the thread they read was a DoE, but it's my rock and roll fantasy and hopefully I'll find some people that share it.

I donno, I was going to be more profound, but I got sidetracked by a silly post--details and catfight to follow.

And the sad thing is, people claim they roleplay, that they play a "character" and whatnot, but they don't. There's nothing close to roleplay to be found anywhere on these boards when it comes to AP or the OWF.

It's just people getting imaginary butthurt over others trying to be all imaginary tough and scary.

I roleplay the business out of this game.

With the exception of only 3 people... boy how those three really ruined the year of hard work I busted my butt for in that alliance. Durim, Schatt, Ninten, Yes, I'm still mad at you all for this. Ninten, I have mostly forgiven you, just mad for not stepping up at all during that. Durim, Schatt, you will never be redeemed in my eyes.

I really don't want to rehash this argument but I'm sick of the speculation by people that are compeltely ignorant of what happened OVER A YEAR LATER.

Nintenderek and Durim were not in a position to stop the Bubblegum War. The idea that either of them could have stopped me from doing anything is ludicrous and laughable. I was the only member of the BC gov't present for the runup to the GATO-1V War, and I settled on the course that made the most sense to me. Durim was told after it was initiated, Nintenderek was told 24 hours after Durim. The only two people that knew beforehand were myself and Zzzptm. The only people in Browncoats that could have stopped it were on vacation or MIA. Nintenderek did more to kill the Bubblegum War than anyone when he posted the logs he was given; you should sing his praises.

The only people that could have rebuilt Browncoats afterward had already left after using their gov positions to poach members and negotiate a clandestine protectorate with IAA while swearing their undying loyalty to Browncoats. They're also the ones that were most butthurt; go figure. The rest were too busy crying about the PR points they lost to stick it out. And frankly, Browncoats was a dead man walking after said gutting by the founders of Hegemony of Periphery States--Bubblegum only hastened the inevitable.

I remain exceedingly remorseful about my part in the disbandment of Browncoats, but I refuse to shoulder all the blame when half the previous government were just as shady, and more selfish. So kiss my grits. Clap clap clap for your moral outrage you put a year of work into Browncoats, then put a month into poaching members from it so you could found your own alliance. Much more morally superior to my scheme to baptise Browncoats in fire. We both strangled Browncoats; you will never be redeemed in my eyes.

We have quite a few ex-members, but you have to take into account how the alliance was founded. We accepted everyone and had a huge initial boom due to the excitement of Ivan starting an alliance. That included a lot of people who are alliance hoppers or who didn't have much in the way of long term loyalty, and it did lead to some initial conflicts as not everyone seemed to get the "leave your grudges in the past" idea, and we've also seem some burn off as people realize that Ivan isn't going to magically make everything wonderful and exciting overnight.

Yeah it was pretty annoying to get like 5 Vox spies resign from service so they could go join NSO.

I eagerly await the recreation of vox then. Still, first time we've been called NPO-lite...

Careful what you wish for.

[Heft]

It's the image you portray in public and I'd agree completely with his assessment. I have no personal bias towards NSO at all as I can't think of a single person there that I know beyond OWF discourse. An example would be the whole GPA/TDO/GOP crap-show.

Ivan: Recruiting from neutrals is no big deal

NSO: Yeah! It's all good.

CN at large: No that's really not that cool guys.

Ivan: Alright my bad.

NSO: Yeah! Our bad.

You all know recruiting from alliances is hugely frowned upon and yet you defend it as long as the guy up top is saying fancy words and making you feel special. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for authoritarian government (hence the Nordreich), but at least have sense enough to pick your battles.

But that....isn't what happened at all.

[Requia]

Considered it, plotted it, did it.

[Duncan King]

@ the OP: This happens every year, it's nothing new. New alliances pop up every time there is a break. People get the "I have to find myself/expand my horizons" bug and create new alliances. Most of these will fail because the creator either gets too busy and can't run it, the creator wasn't experienced or well known enough, or they were unable to recruit enough members. Zenith created a year ago, at a time when lots of new alliances were creating. Only like a quarter, if that, are still here. Some merged, but most simply faded away.

I've never been a fan of theme alliances because they limit the people who will join to the people who like that theme. I also don't like role playing a character hardcore like those in the RP sessions. I put a lot of work into being "Duncan King" and doing my Zenith work. I don't have the time or energy to RP. If I were to do a themed alliance, which is unlikely, the theme would be "Star Trek."

I've founded two alliances, one made it a year, the first did not. I had only been a deputy the first time and wanted to go out on my own because I was sick of the glass ceiling. I was a total noob and was not ready. The alliance failed as a result. I was a year wiser when I worked to found Zenith and this time, I was ready

@ Astronaut Jones: yes, it does take a lot of time and talent to found an alliance. You either have to be a generalist familiar with both IA and FA or get experienced people in quickly who are. Many alliances are founded by mid level deputies who never got a chance at the top in their home alliance and want to be number one. You can spot these when you see someone you've never heard of as emperor. Most of this type of alliance will fail because the founder doesn't have the skill or time to make them work or no one had heard of the founder enough to want to join the alliance. The first alliance I founded was one of these.

Some alliances consist of top level gov out taking a breather. These founders have served in top level government, been around the block a few times, and are now making their own way. Zenith was one of these. More of these will make it, but only if they find good people and have a lot of time. Other examples are NSO, The Jedi Order, Nemesis, Zero Hour, and Vires Noctu.

Then there are the alliances founded by people who are "too good" to fit into an existing alliance. These people insist on going their own way. These will continually fail because the founder never really learned to govern (due to constantly alliance hopping) and no one takes him or her seriously because s/he has been in so many alliances. Examples of these are anything founded by or containing one of these people as gov:

- Kobiashy

- Jack the Great

- Raydin

- Cool3tool

- Sileath

- RyanGDI (this may only be his first (I don't remember), but the rest seems to be true)

Alliances that are founded by people who just started life out on Planet Bob also don't do too well. I always chuckle a bit when someone has a DoE as their first post, it's never a good sign. Sometimes, it's an experienced reroll, but most of the time, it's someone brand new creating an alliance on their first day. A few of these do make it, but most of the time, they either don't grow and merge or fade away. Cybernations has a steep learning curve and it's very difficult to learn enough to really make it if you haven't served in an existing alliance before.

Of the ones that recently founded, the only ones that I think have a chance of going a year are House Atredies, New Era, and Zero Hour. Vires Noctu may, but I know the founders quite well and RL has a bad habit of eating them. If they get a comparatively tranquil year or get some good people in quickly to cover, it could very well make it. A few that I didn't mention will make it despite the factors against them because the founders are very talented and have a lot of time or they manage to recruit enough good people to carry the alliance through.

RE: NSO- I think they have some good people but they do seem to be using their theme to cause trouble of late, especially with the recruiting of neutrals. There is definitely a "we're better than you"/"bad to the bone"/"too cool for school" attitude there. Challenging traditions internally is fine and if things work for you, more power to you. However there are some things that are traditions here for a reason, whether it be respect or just the way things have always been done. Not recruiting from alliances is one of these. It shows respect for other alliances by not screwing with their members (and arguably to their members as well by not spamming them with messages-many join alliances to get away from these) and has been a reason for war for as long as I've been here. Is there really anything wrong with respecting others?

Edit: I made up a few words.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Duncan King

[crazyisraelie]

I absolutely hate this trend. I hate seeing a new alliance founded every night. Just to see the next day or two days later that they merged.

Most new alliances will not make it. I can not stress that enough.

The reason why? They aren't a community. Most new alliances aren't founded like the ones of old were.

Examples: NPO, LUE, ODN, FAN, CSN, etc.

Hell the RIA didn't have a change in the world when it founded. We were founded by a bunch of idiots (I was one of them) that had no idea how to play this game. What saved our butts? We had a community that we could depend on.

[Deadshot]

Thanks for the mention Duncan, and you are spot on. Real life does have a habit of putting me away for a bit, but I found an internet connection recently at work and that wont be a problem anymore

[Opethian]

Small alliances are dumb and should just go away.

[King DrunkWino]

Small alliances are dumb and should just go away.

If that's not quotable, then nothing else that has ever been said is.

[Francesca]

I quite like the explosion of alliances, too. I just hope that one is founded on red that actually succeeds, and that, unlike FIRE, it isn't founded solely to flick off NPO.

[Kzoppistan]

... and they realize their manga themed ultra nerdy alliance will never attract enough people.

....

NOOOOOooooooo!

I have seen the light, and it burns! IT BURNS!

I thought about making an alliance called ANT COLONY where every member must role play as a worker ant at all times. Couldn't get anyone else interested unfortunately.

I'm already in that alliance. It's called work.

Cthulhu is calling. In case there isn't enough Lovecraft fans out there, I've always liked to make an alliance based on exaggerated self loathing personas and extreme self-righteousness.

I'm already in that alliance, too. It's called RL.

Jokes aside, I knew I like you for a reason, Jipps, and there it is.

I once considered leaving Polaris with a friend of mine from Legion to form a pokemon/lol alliance called Team Rocket. I even had a flag for it and everything.

Ah dude! I love Team Rocket! And I'm extremely only mostly embarrassed to say that. I rarely write on public bathroom walls, but when I do I scribble: "Meowth Forever" on it. If I ever wanted to get a joke tattoo, that would be it.

Edited July 11, 2009 by Kzoppistan

[Vijaya]

The Brokeback Brotherhood.. But that, that was a long long time ago.

Still and all, it was the very definition of EPIC.

[King Srqt]

I'd make a little alliance that had a Super Mario Bros theme.

that would never work.

[Uralica]

Then there are the alliances founded by people who are "too good" to fit into an existing alliance. These people insist on going their own way. These will continually fail because the founder never really learned to govern (due to constantly alliance hopping) and no one takes him or her seriously because s/he has been in so many alliances. Examples of these are anything founded by or containing one of these people as gov:

- Kobiashy

- Jack the Great

- Raydin

- Cool3tool

- Sileath

- RyanGDI (this may only be his first (I don't remember), but the rest seems to be true)

He was in DSCN and UNOS.

Also, you're missing King Daniel The 1st and DRDavid Banner on that list. And supposedly Kenji88 as well.

[KingsIndian]

Small alliances are dumb and should just go away.

It's been a pleasure to watch the PPF's recent growth spurt .

[Duncan King]

He was in DSCN and UNOS.

Also, you're missing King Daniel The 1st and DRDavid Banner on that list. And supposedly Kenji88 as well.

I think he may be able to be added after his antics in the "Merging" thread.

I haven't had much contact with the first two.

[threefingeredguy]

Anyway, have you fellas ever considered making a fun little alliance and if so what was the gist of it?

I helped found this:

It was fun. Find a group of friends that you'll be happy to play with through thick and thin and you'll have all you need.

[Doitzel]

That's not what the NSO is like at all, I'm not sure where you're getting your information. It's cool if you want to bash us in the IC areas but if you're going to spout crap OOC then I have to asusme you actually believe what you're saying, and in this case what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

And there's only so much "Sithiness" we can do before people start shrieking at us and calling us mean nasty names. People love to talk about how the game needs more IC-ness or needs spicing up but they certainly don't seem to like it when someone actually does something a little out of their comfort zone.

The NSO system isn't perfect, but it is actually quite good, and it has been refined quite a bit since we started. The Challenge system (Which is what I assume Doitzel refers to above) has actually worked out much better than I honestly expected, and I think it is proving itself to be much more effective than regular elections. Obviously it relies on the membership's cooperation and maturity to a large degree but so far we haven't had any significant issues with it.

My information comes mostly from the dozens who've left because they got tired of the in-fighting, the way entire sections of the alliance essentially get shut down each time a popularity contest you call a "challenge" comes up, the way said challenges breed deep personal conflicts, and to get away from the bootlicking of the Darth Council. It reminds me of the IO system to be perfectly frank; the difference is that instead of sending out Article III lynch mobs occasionally there's constantly a lynch mob out for anyone who proves a convenient target.

I'm not saying it isn't unique or that it doesn't work on some levels, but if I thought it was exceptional or the best I wouldn't have fought so long against such methods of governance. I think it does a lot of harm to an alliance's sense of community and attracts people of a certain temperament that I generally don't find to be very nice.

[LiquidMercury]

We made a StarCraft based alliance - United Earth Directorate

Think Gremlins has you beat to this a long time ago......

Top 3 positions:

Judicator

Praetor

Executor

Other ranks:

Dark Council

Council of Archons

Dark Templars

Templars

Zealots

Also the fact that original founding members migrated from broodwars.de and SC games still regularly go on.

[Heft]

My information comes mostly from the dozens who've left because they got tired of the in-fighting, the way entire sections of the alliance essentially get shut down each time a popularity contest you call a "challenge" comes up, the way said challenges breed deep personal conflicts, and to get away from the bootlicking of the Darth Council. It reminds me of the IO system to be perfectly frank; the difference is that instead of sending out Article III lynch mobs occasionally there's constantly a lynch mob out for anyone who proves a convenient target.

I'm not saying it isn't unique or that it doesn't work on some levels, but if I thought it was exceptional or the best I wouldn't have fought so long against such methods of governance. I think it does a lot of harm to an alliance's sense of community and attracts people of a certain temperament that I generally don't find to be very nice.

We've had some issues here and there, as would be expected, but your claims are exaggerated to the point of just being wrong. Almost every challenge that has come up has been handled maturely and respectfully, and the membership has generally been consistent about expecting a legitimate justification for the challenge. I'm not sur ehow you simultaneously criticize the permanence of the Darth Council and the challenge system for the rest, either.

[Heyman]

Small alliances are dumb and should just go away.

Sarcasm wins the day!

[Fallen Fool]

I've never been in an alliance that had less then 150 members but I've often toyed with the idea of starting my own alliance. Invariably in the end, however, I decide just to sit my lazy $@! back down and enjoy where I'm at.

An untouchable clique at the top led by a personality cult dictator while the members sycophantically squabble for the scraps from master's table. Just another run-of-the-mill authoritarian alliance with a twist that actually makes things operationally worse and breeds the most hostile community atmosphere possible.

That sounds very Sith.

I mean seriously Doizel take a step back. The Sith don't like teddy bears, peace, free love and democracy. They thrive on hostility and competition. If the New Sith Order is precisely what you're labeling it in this post (which according to my experience it's not), then it would be very, very Sith-like.

Edit: And their theme is a joke on the whole. It's an excuse to do whatever they want but beyond that there's very little adherence to Star Wars canon.

By which you mean...? Should they reference a Star Wars guide every time they make an internal or external decision?

Or are you just peeved that to structure his government Ivan went beyond the scope of the movies, scrapped the Rule of Two, and instead chose to adopt an earlier version of the Sith structure that predated the Battle of Ruusan?

My information comes mostly from the dozens

You've taken the time to talk to "dozens" of ex-members of the NSO?

who've left because they got tired of the in-fighting,

It's an alliance based on mutual internal competition. If you don't like that then you shouldn't be there.

So good for them?

the way entire sections of the alliance essentially get shut down

What?

I mean I won't deny that certain segments of the forums have been shut down, but that's only occurred a handful of times, and that was only because they weren't achieving the desired results. Inevitably the segments of the forums would be brought back online under a different structure that was designed to increased efficiency.

and both each time a popularity contest you call a "challenge" comes up,

Every time there is anything resembling an election in this game it's a popularity contest. So, yeah, what's your point again?

the way said challenges breed deep personal conflicts,

So whoever you talked to was a sore loser?

and to get away from the bootlicking of the Darth Council.

I don't recall seeing a great deal of this.

It reminds me of the IO system to be perfectly frank;

Since I don't have any firsthand experience with the IO System I cannot really drawn any comparisons. I would hope that you would be objective and cease any judgments since you yourself have no first hand experience with NSO's system of governance.

the difference is that instead of sending out Article III lynch mobs occasionally there's constantly a lynch mob out for anyone who proves a convenient target.

Those poor victims. Except, of course, for the fact that the only people who can be "lynched" via challenges only got their positions via the same methods. Edited July 12, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[lordliam]

It would be good if future Planet Bob would allow for more small-scale conflicts without every sanctioned alliance getting involved to the point where the original disputants get completely forgotten. I too have a dream. heh.

That would be great.

[Mixoux]

I'd say it's almost impossible starting an alliance without some form of community already pre-established. Going off to create your new 1 man alliance because you had some cool idea/theme is great, but it's gonna be a while before you find that second and third member. And even then, there's still quite a bit to go.

Even a small group of 10-15 are gonna have a much easier time starting a successful alliance, solely because there's already that community. New members see that and have something to go off of for reference. Like WC and others have said, that pre-established community is what made certain alliances of the past and present so successful.

Just my opinion of course.