Mergerberger II Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Save only tech for normal players.Infra stats are added if the player is condemned to ZI or restricted by peace terms. That makes no sense whatsoever. How could a nation with the infrastructure of Somalia have the technology of the United Kingdom? Impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Subtle, you play with your country. Your country. That's it. You do not play with your country two weeks ago. You do not play with your country two weeks ahead. You play with your country now. Get that in your head. You do not get to pick and choose what time your country gets to go into CNRP. You play with the one you have, not the one that suits you best and gives you an unfair advantage. Why can't you pick and choose? The only point of CN in this RP is to serve as a source of standardizing statistics that can create a level playing field. Otherwise everyone would be RPing a MOTU maniacs superpower. However as long as a person at one time achieved a certain set of stats there is no fairness reason as to why they can't continue to use those specific stats in perpetuity. Essentially by achieving those stats, they have already "earned" the right to use them. Personally I don't really care what the rule is, if I am ZI'd or my alliance gets owned in a war, and I have a screen shot of my nation, then for all intents and purposes that is my nation; no matter how many times I re-roll or how long I play the nation. CN politics should stay out of the RP; and people should be insulated from the randomness of CN. Someone shouldn't have to worry about joining an alliance like Valhalla because they might lose their RP stats, or be driven to hippy out in a war so they don't get screwed here. As for fairness why does it make a difference? Other than in war it wouldn't impact your own nation at all if I were RPing 10k tech this second vs 4.2K; and even in war its not that effectual. All removing saved stats would do is screw a lot of people depending on them now and give an unfair advantage to those who are not. It would also reward cowardly activity in game and punish people who remain loyal to their alliance in times of war. Which I don't think A is something RP should be involved in at all, and B isn't very good for the community anyway. Edited July 10, 2009 by iamthey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Why can't you pick and choose? The only point of CN in this RP is to serve as a source of standardizing statistics that can create a level playing field. Otherwise everyone would be RPing a MOTU maniacs superpower. However as long as a person at one time achieved a certain set of stats there is no fairness reason as to why they can't continue to use those specific stats in perpetuity. Essentially by achieving those stats, they have already "earned" the right to use them.Personally I don't really care what the rule is, if I am ZI'd or my alliance gets owned in a war, and I have a screen shot of my nation, then for all intents and purposes that is my nation; no matter how many times I re-roll or how long I play the nation. CN politics should stay out of the RP; and people should be insulated from the randomness of CN. Someone shouldn't have to worry about joining an alliance like Valhalla because they might lose their RP stats, or be driven to hippy out in a war so they don't get screwed here. As for fairness why does it make a difference? Other than in war it wouldn't impact your own nation at all if I were RPing 10k tech this second vs 4.2K; and even in war its not that effectual. All removing saved stats would do is screw a lot of people depending on them now and give an unfair advantage to those who are not. It would also reward cowardly activity in game and punish people who remain loyal to their alliance in times of war. So, why are you playing with CNRP? You don't get to pick and choose. You play with your country. If I go up and look at your nation right this now, that is your nation right now and those are the only stats that matter. CN politics have always stayed out of RP - there are no AAs and those who have used their alliances to get advantages in the RP have been wiped in the past. There's no NPO hate or GGAlulz, and even though many of us are on separate sides of great wars we still roleplay together without problems. If you don't want to roleplay the bad effects of your own choices (yes, loyalty is a choice and any harm you take is your choice - if you don't want to deal with it, choose which is more important: RP or CN), go ahead. Just roleplay it somewhere else. This RP was better when nobody gave a damn about stats, but now that we're in this phase it's full out or nothing. Navies are only what's in-game even if you had it larger in the past, and this includes militaries and tanks and planes and all that. Why can't we just apply an already effective system to stats? Infra isn't used for much other than to see if you're rather developed, and tech has been devalued here. After 1500 it doesn't really matter anyway. If you "depend" on saved stats then you obviously aren't a good roleplayer if the only thing you can do is RP a big, huge, developed empire with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Saved stats create an unfair advantage in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 If it was better when no one cared about stats, then why not just leave it up to personal choice? Let those who want to save their stats save their stats, and those who don't can RP effects. I don't care, my position isn't the result of an opinion it is a result of not having one, and simply wishing to maintain personal liberty with regards to my RP. If I want to RP a screenshot of my nation I don't really care what your opinion on it is its not your decision or opinion that matters its the collective decision of the community that matters. They will decide whether or not they choose to recognize and RP with the screenshot stats. As for RP we are not all RPing like botha, this isn't Game related RP it is Fantasy RP; it is a separate game only transiently connected to CN. Im not roleplaying my CN country I am role playing a nation based on some numbers I pulled out of my account in CN. As for why I am here, I role play for the same reason most do; because I think its fun, and because I enjoy not only writing but playing the game. Not because I want to expand my own in game experience. As for depending on saved stats, Its not so much the desire to want to RP a giant huge empire where everything goes perfectly as much as it is the desire to not role play a !@#$ hole of a country. Having higher stats gives a role player more freedom and latitude in how creative they can be with their nation. While conversely low stats impose huge limitations on the ability to RP what kind of technology you can have, how much land you can have, excetra. I simply desire less regulation and letting people choose to use their older stats facilitates that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) I thought the point of saved stats was to keep IG out of RP given we cannot control our alliances' actions. I'd be at 23k ns or more if it weren't for my alliance's actions. I will not recognize this even if a GM authorizes it because I know that this is based on ooc actions related to one particular individual and I'm tired of seeing the rules change every time a new GM enstated. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk11 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes [ 22 ] [61.11%] No [ 14 ] [38.89%] I think we're done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I think we're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Only a sham vote runs for less than 24 hours.. or even less than a week in crnp. I won't recognize a sham vote and I won't recognize a sham GM ruling. I know the ooc motivators for this. You don't even want me to explain this one to a mod. I will not recognize this if it becomes made official this way. I have done nothing in the RP to merit my nation's fall. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk11 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 ...You're kidding right? We don't even have more than 37 RPers. Not only that, I don't control this poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) No, I'm not. I know why this is happening.. *points to Sumeragi's IG war and collusion with Sargun* People can't win fairly so they cheat by changing the rules. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawk11 Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 You're just noticing that war now? It was all the rage in #cnrp yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) It only came into context.. when some.. information was given to me about what had been going on in #CNRP sometimes in my absence. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Besides, IF we are going to go by saved stats because it's "true to rp"... Then I demand we also RP the great wars down to their breakdown based on alliances. Which I feel is not tolerable to the community, so stats should be saved otherwise. It is CN BASED rp, it is not CN RP in pure form, that's what OWF is for. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedran Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I, for one, like the idea of saved stats. My nation got wrecked last year and the RP I created to explain it was fun to do and provided the basis for more stories to come, but some people don't want a sudden drop in strength like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Mael, if it's a rule, then it's a rule... we all play by the same ones. Tons of people, me included, weren't happy when the rule was made that RP navy = IG navy, but we all still played by it. Frankly, if you don't want to play by the rules that the rest of us are going to be playing by, have fun in other RPs then. Your RP won't be recognized in CNRP. If saved stats are gone, you'll just have to think of something new for your nation. Hawk has done it in a similar situation to yours... why can't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) I won't recognize an anonymous vote as a rule making avenue. It is to easily manipulated, and based on some information I've received, this vote likely is manipulated. Why can't I? Because this isn't OWF. It's based on IC stats, but isn't purely IC stats or we'd all be on that forum playing by those IC standards. That and this vote does not accurately reflect community sentiment. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I heard VZ tried to return with saved stats.. if this is true, it is an absue of the stats rule. The old saved stats rule said nations; if they are restarting, re-rolling, or creating a new state, must use CURRENT ig stats, but we shouldn't be changing people's stats that haven't done anything to merit it.. haven't been involved in any form of IC incident that caused their nation to be forced to abide by their current statistics if they are operating on saved stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime minister Johns Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes, Abolish it in all but the rarest cases. Like if someone is on an EZI list and is an exceptional roleplayer then they should be allowed to use saved stats with a few restrictions. But for everyday occurances such as wars then players should have to take losses from them on their role play stats as readily as they take the advances from buying a new wonder or an IG navy or air force. To eliminate unfavourable events from happening in the story of CNRP impoverishes it considerably. From adversity comes drama and from drama comes exciting stories, Some of the best stories ever told are of a hero rising up against nearly impossible odds to triumph in the end. My advice to players is to keep the "unfavourable" events and use them as seeds to create richer and more believable stories for CNRP. Take the good with the bad, and if life gives you lemons make lemonade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) I normally do that, but explaining a 97% population drop is nigh impossible in the context of ordinary rp. Lets face it.. there's this point where CN and Realism take a huge deviation when it comes to the behavior of geopolitics. Wars is one of those areas. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) Yes, Abolish it in all but the rarest cases. Like if someone is on an EZI list and is an exceptional roleplayer then they should be allowed to use saved stats with a few restrictions. I agree with that. I don't find it fair for players being forced to RP a nation that barely grows at all for several months due to IG situations. Edited July 10, 2009 by HHAYD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 (edited) The problem is I do not trust the community to be able to collectively decide one way or the other when it comes to my state. You will have those for and against you playing by a specific measure and who is to decide who fits the definition of an "exceptional roleplayer"? This is why the law must be killed. Arbitrary measures don't work. The old rules were made the way they are because they provide a relatively fair and unbiased measure. When a state is rolled in RP or has a negative RP event that is extreme enough to remove them from the map the player must come back with IG Current stats. That's fair to all and leaves no need for interpretation. Opinion based measures leaves open the possibility for exploitation and abused. Despite the best attempts by some to separate them the IC actions of many in this environment are still motivated by OOC attitudes and vice versa. Edited July 10, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime minister Johns Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I normally do that, but explaining a 97% population drop is nigh impossible in the context of ordinary rp. Lets face it.. there's this point where CN and Realism take a huge deviation when it comes to the behavior of geopolitics. Wars is one of those areas. I did, I got hit it with a plague from a stray missile from a war that happened many months ago in the RP that lay dormant in my old nation, and it made quite a nice reverse deus ex machina (Diablo ex machina?) to explain a 98% drop in my RP stats and still allow me to keep the same RP nation but bring its stats into line with the new in-game reality. Did I like it? Strangely enough yes, it gave me an opportunity to branch my RP off into a new direction and allow me to explore the idea of a benevolent corporate/academic state rather than a military state like my old government style was. And it improved my enjoyment of the RP considerably since I could go back and make all the news announcements every time I purchased something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes, but you chose to do that. It's a bit different than being compelled.. and being compelled arbitrarily at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Yes, but you chose to do that. It's a bit different than being compelled.. and being compelled arbitrarily at that. It's CNRP if you do not want your rp nation to reflect your CN nations I propose you could better join an independent RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts