Sargun II Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 But it is also CNRP. Not just CN, not just RP. The point is you're still forcing someone to RP something they don't wish to. if you don't wnat to RP with saved stats, it should be your choice. Not an enforced rule. Subtle, you play with your country. Your country. That's it. You do not play with your country two weeks ago. You do not play with your country two weeks ahead. You play with your country now. Get that in your head. You do not get to pick and choose what time your country gets to go into CNRP. You play with the one you have, not the one that suits you best and gives you an unfair advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Subtle, you play with your country. Your country. That's it. You do not play with your country two weeks ago. You do not play with your country two weeks ahead. You play with your country now. Get that in your head. You do not get to pick and choose what time your country gets to go into CNRP. You play with the one you have, not the one that suits you best and gives you an unfair advantage. In case you haven;t noticed, any advantages I get I do not abuse. It is not necessarily because the stats suit me best--I would prefer to be able to advance even on saved stats, but I made a rule against that specifically to prevent abuse of the system. You are also completely ignoring the idea that You would still be forcing someone to RP something due to ig circumstances beyond their control. And another thing about wars...you can't always tell when they'll happen--they're unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) As a side note, how accurate are the polls, anyway, when even non CNRP'ers can vote in them? I'm hardly the first to point that out. Edited July 9, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted July 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 In case you haven;t noticed, any advantages I get I do not abuse. It is not necessarily because the stats suit me best--I would prefer to be able to advance even on saved stats, but I made a rule against that specifically to prevent abuse of the system.You are also completely ignoring the idea that You would still be forcing someone to RP something due to ig circumstances beyond their control. And another thing about wars...you can't always tell when they'll happen--they're unpredictable. We arn't telling people what to RP, but their stats are what they are IG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I support the abolishing, but people under P-ZI or E-ZI sentence should be allowed to RP their saved stats. Its boring having to RP with less than 100 tech for several months before you can convince the public to lift the E-ZI sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir jesus Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) If they are abolished then I quit CNRP. I don't care if that sounds selfish or whatever. This is FANTASY ROLEPLAY! If I wanted to do in-game roleplay, GUESS WHICH SUBFORUM I WOULD POST IN! Hmm... maybe the Game-related Roleplay subforum. Seriously, if you guys ban saved stats then you are losing me and potentially other players. I know that sounds selfish, but when this game has gotten to the point when a unrelated game (there's no IRON or NPO in this world) dictates what happens in my fantasy nation then I am out. You guys police this game so heavily, why cant you just go with the flow. I would counter every single point made so far with a good logical reason, but Subtle has more than sufficiently done so. *Huggles Subtle for thinking logically* Edited July 9, 2009 by sir jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) I am against saved stats completely. People say "You don't have to RP things you don't want too". Does that mean if someone declares war on me I can say "I don't want to RP that, go away"? No, I can't, the current rule is your nation gets erased if you do that. Edited July 9, 2009 by BaronUberstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 If they are abolished then I quit CNRP.I don't care if that sounds selfish or whatever. This is FANTASY ROLEPLAY! If I wanted to do in-game roleplay, GUESS WHICH SUBFORUM I WOULD POST IN! Hmm... maybe the Game-related Roleplay subforum. Seriously, if you guys ban saved stats then you are losing me and potentially other players. I know that sounds selfish, but when this game has gotten to the point when a unrelated game (there's no IRON or NPO in this world) dictates what happens in my fantasy nation then I am out. You guys police this game so heavily, why cant you just go with the flow. I would counter every single point made so far with a good logical reason, but Subtle has more than sufficiently done so. *Huggles Subtle for thinking logically* *Subtleknifewielder blushes furiously* Glad I'm not the only one thinking that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 I am against saved stats completely.People say "You don't have to RP things you don't want too". Does that mean if someone declares war on me I can say "I don't want to RP that, go away"? No, I can't, the current rule is your nation gets erased if you do that. Ah, I was waiting for someone to bring up that point. There's a big flaw in your comparison. We are debating a rule concerning IG, and therefore OOC, events. Your scenario of refusing to fight an RP'd war deals with an IC event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 We arn't telling people what to RP, but their stats are what they are IG. --which is, in effect, forcing them to RP something they don't want to. Whether or not you tell them how to Rp it, it's still forcing them to react to something that is OOC to CNRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Ah, I was waiting for someone to bring up that point. There's a big flaw in your comparison. We are debating a rule concerning IG, and therefore OOC, events.Your scenario of refusing to fight an RP'd war deals with an IC event. I'm debating the selfish, stupid rule of "If you don't like it you don't have to RP it". It's an arrogant attitude of "EVERYTHING MUST GO MY WAY." People say not using saved stats is going against the flow, I disagree. Saved stats are a crutch for those who don't want to RP the consequences of their actions. Is saying "No navies unless you have them ingame" unfair? It's taking OOC and putting it IC. What about our IG troop numbers? Our land amount? It's forcing people to conform if we use those, isn't it? Edited July 9, 2009 by BaronUberstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V The King Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 --which is, in effect, forcing them to RP something they don't want to. Whether or not you tell them how to Rp it, it's still forcing them to react to something that is OOC to CNRP. It's not necessarily OOC, it's IG. Either way, since this is CNRP and we RP by our in-game stats, we must do our best to reflect IG progress in RP - if people expect to be more powerful by buying infra and tech plus expanding their army, navy, nuclear arsenal or whatever, then they should also expect to be weaker when they lose infra and tech as well as decommissioning their nukes and ships. If you want to RP good times, then you ought to be ready to RP bad times as well. Not everything's all flowers and sunshine. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) I'm debating the selfish, stupid rule of "If you don't like it you don't have to RP it".It's an arrogant attitude of "EVERYTHING MUST GO MY WAY." People say not using saved stats is going against the flow, I disagree. Saved stats are a crutch for those who don't want to RP the consequences of their actions. Is saying "No navies unless you have them ingame" unfair? It's taking OOC and putting it IC. What about our IG troop numbers? Our land amount? It's forcing people to conform if we use those, isn't it? Consequences of their actions? Have you even been listening? The VAST majority of situations where these two views would come in conflict concern events that RP'ers here have no control over. The statistics on military forces are so people know who is likely to win, if any, in a CNRP war, and thus are necessary to be restricted to a degree. It's not necessarily OOC, it's IG. Either way, since this is CNRP and we RP by our in-game stats, we must do our best to reflect IG progress in RP - if people expect to be more powerful by buying infra and tech plus expanding their army, navy, nuclear arsenal or whatever, then they should also expect to be weaker when they lose infra and tech as well as decommissioning their nukes and ships. If you want to RP good times, then you ought to be ready to RP bad times as well. Not everything's all flowers and sunshine. Simple as that. Look, i'm an advocate of what's saved is saved, if you forget, tough. And before you condemn me for that seemingly biased attitude, I forgot to save my navy and air force at the beginning of the Karma war. Meaning I'm out of luck if someone invades me by sea. Edited July 9, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V The King Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Look, i'm an advocate of what's saved is saved, if you forget, tough.And before you condemn me for that seemingly biased attitude, I forgot to save my navy and air force at the beginning of the Karma war. Meaning I'm out of luck if someone invades me by sea. The second part wasn't directed at you, hence the "either way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 The second part wasn't directed at you, hence the "either way". yeah, i know it wasn't. However, I also meant to say that in a way, they still do have to RP bad times. No expansion programs or scientific breakthroughs of any sort. That can equal stagnation, which is just as bad in its way as decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Not in CNRP, where economics don't matter. Also, for sir jesus, CNRP is not a traditional fantasy roleplay. We simply do it in the fantasy roleplay subforum because we're slightly ahead of the actual tech years in real life (not to mention accelerated speed, retarded wars, etc.). CNRP is RP based off our CN nations, which means if something good happens to it you have fun and if something bad happens you don't have fun. That's the basic part of CNRP - play by your stats. Also, subtle, someone will abuse it. Someone already has abused it (see: Kaiser Martens). Just because you won't doesn't mean anybody else won't. Edited July 9, 2009 by Sargun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 9, 2009 Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 You know, I actually came into this thread being for saved stats, but then I realized that I had made a roleplay for not saving my stats, without even realizing it... I had RP'd a civil war in my country, explained the loss in infrastructure, military, etc. And it's been fun. So... I guess I'm in favor of abolishing saved stats. If they were kept, I would say that they could only be kept for your current nation. If you switched to a different nation, even if you didn't leave for any length of time, your saved stats should disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raritan Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 My position would be that you can save stats, but only for your current RP nation. If it gets into a war, you reroll, or something else gives you the ability to degrade your nation to its IG level other than saying "My government suddenly hates all aircraft and ships which we will now immediately destroy" (which very few, if any, would say), you lose your saved stats. That said, if most of th epeople here can have the self-control to not abuse them, then we have no reason to abolish them. The entire community shoudn't be punished for the actions of 1 or 2. However, if abuse becomes common, I will support the abolishment of saved stats to preserve the integrity of RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 The entire community shoudn't be punished for the actions of 1 or 2. Collective punishment (and the reaction) is a beautiful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Not in CNRP, where economics don't matter.Also, for sir jesus, CNRP is not a traditional fantasy roleplay. We simply do it in the fantasy roleplay subforum because we're slightly ahead of the actual tech years in real life (not to mention accelerated speed, retarded wars, etc.). CNRP is RP based off our CN nations, which means if something good happens to it you have fun and if something bad happens you don't have fun. That's the basic part of CNRP - play by your stats. Also, subtle, someone will abuse it. Someone already has abused it (see: Kaiser Martens). Just because you won't doesn't mean anybody else won't. Abuse it? Kaiser Martens abused it before LVN and I added the modified rule that there's no advancement. And The no advancement, in case you missed it, was not just in economics, but in military and civilian technology, infrastructure, and pretty much anything else. Heck, at that point, someone could Rp fertility rates going way down for some reason to explain why their population isn't increasing. Or immigration away. or birth control. there are just as many ways to RP stagnation as there are decline, so leaving saved stats actually opens up options that weren't there. You know, I actually came into this thread being for saved stats, but then I realized that I had made a roleplay for not saving my stats, without even realizing it... I had RP'd a civil war in my country, explained the loss in infrastructure, military, etc. And it's been fun. So... I guess I'm in favor of abolishing saved stats.If they were kept, I would say that they could only be kept for your current nation. If you switched to a different nation, even if you didn't leave for any length of time, your saved stats should disappear. That is the current rule (if saved stats are kept)--that if they are kept, they are kept only for your current nation. You re-roll, or get a successor state, and wham, no more saved stats. Collective punishment (and the reaction) is a beautiful thing. Only when you're outside looking in. And if you get pleasure out of it, you must be a sadist... Seriously, though, it isn't. You're asking the group to be punished for a number less than the number of fingers on a normal person's hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Save only tech for normal players. Infra stats are added if the player is condemned to ZI or restricted by peace terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Just so people know, the most recent saved stats rule was military units, infrastructure, and tech. Some people saved nukes, though that wasn't as often, for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted July 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Save only tech for normal players.Infra stats are added if the player is condemned to ZI or restricted by peace terms. No exceptions, that leaves room for loopholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 No exceptions, that leaves room for loopholes. GM's exist for covering said loopholes. Their rulings are meant to clarify the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerreyRough Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 For the record, I don't give a damn about any stats any more. Whatever the outcome (I voted "no"), the end result should not have any force roleplaying, i.e. being spyed on & having no option to not roleplay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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