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Voodoo Nova
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Well, it appears there have been some arguments for and against saved stats. Both sides have their various points, but I personally feel that saved stats should be abolished, period. Let me lay out the points to you one by one.

1. Saved stats provide an unfair advantage to the various nations that newly join RP. Say two nations are in CNRP. Both nations are of equal strength, size, tech, infra, land, etc. They both get knocked down to ZI. One of those nations decided he'd save his stats "just in case", while the other never really bothered with it. Why should the nation that bothered posting a set of stats have an advantage over someone that is equal in size to him/her in CNRP? They shouldn't.

2. The argument that you are forcing someone to RP something they don't want to is a crock of horse manure. No one is saying they have to RP their nation shrinking. They could, for example, sell their "expensive equipment" for "cheaper equipment". Just because your have better stats does not mean you will always have the better stuff. Many nations effectively use old Soviet and old American equipment, some of which dates back to the 50's and 60's. All of it still kills the enemy.

3. If you RP well, you shouldn't need high stats to kick some butt and to create good story. Stats are there for war, and if you think that you are the best because you have high stats, I feel sorry for you. Take Hawk for example. No saved stats and he still goes with the flow; taking what happens IG and making an RP around it. Take what happens in-game to you and make something of it. Get spied on? Make an RP. Buy some tanks, ships or nukes? Make an RP Get nuked in game? Make an RP. Take the opportunities and run with it.

These three points outline the reasons, that I feel, why saved stats should be abolished. It provides an unfair advantage, it doesnt force you to RP something you do not want to, and it can make for good RP.

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This is Cybernations Roleplay. We RP our countries directly into here, and saved stats are essentially going back in time and keeping your country where it was. That's not CNRP. These areas of the forums allow for more than Cybernations Roleplay and they can do whatever they want with saved stats, but when you go into CNRP you RP with your country now, not your country before you got into a war. Saved stats are incredibly unfair to those who haven't had the luck to be in the game long enough to be very strong. When the strong ones get hurt, this makes it fair - but, no, saved stats keep the dominant players on top without any actual legitimate reasoning.

If you do not wish to RP your country, don't play CNRP.

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1. Saved stats provide an unfair advantage to the various nations that newly join RP. Say two nations are in CNRP. Both nations are of equal strength, size, tech, infra, land, etc. They both get knocked down to ZI. One of those nations decided he'd save his stats "just in case", while the other never really bothered with it. Why should the nation that bothered posting a set of stats have an advantage over someone that is equal in size to him/her in CNRP? They shouldn't.

is it really unfair? it shows that opne person had the foresight to think ahead. Not everyone extensively RP's their military--should they be penalized because they don't have extensive RP's on their equipment?

2. The argument that you are forcing someone to RP something they don't want to is a crock of horse manure. No one is saying they have to RP their nation shrinking. They could, for example, sell their "expensive equipment" for "cheaper equipment". Just because your have better stats does not mean you will always have the better stuff. Many nations effectively use old Soviet and old American equipment, some of which dates back to the 50's and 60's. All of it still kills the enemy.

I beg to differ. You explain to me WHY a nation would be perfecly willing sell their advanced equipment and purchase older models, and you won't hear another complaint from me.

3. If you RP well, you shouldn't need high stats to kick some butt and to create good story. Stats are there for war, and if you think that you are the best because you have high stats, I feel sorry for you. Take Hawk for example. No saved stats and he still goes with the flow; taking what happens IG and making an RP around it. Take what happens in-game to you and make something of it. Get spied on? Make an RP. Buy some tanks, ships or nukes? Make an RP Get nuked in game? Make an RP. Take the opportunities and run with it.

Yes. the problem? Everyone would be experiencing the same problem. You know how repetitive that would be? There are ony so many soultions to a certain problem. If someone does not want to play with saved stats, that should be their choice, and I'll respect them for it. But this should not be used as an excuse to force someone to RP something out of their control?

These three points outline the reasons, that I feel, why saved stats should be abolished. It provides an unfair advantage, it doesnt force you to RP something you do not want to, and it can make for good RP.
Kill saved stats. Make them vanish into oblivion. Any one is capable of making a post saying that some pandemic spread through their nation and that's why their infrastructure, population an army went to crap.

Yeah, sure. That's one solution. And it's been used before. I am willing to bet tah ANY solution you can come up with has been used before.

Plus, you aren't permitted to use something that could potentially prove GLOBALLY disastrous, as a pandemic would be. (Pan indicating "Global.")

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I beg to differ. You explain to me WHY a nation would be perfecly willing sell their advanced equipment and purchase older models, and you won't hear another complaint from me.

The same reason we do not have some of the most advanced pieces of technology in real life, money.

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You don't have to RP all actions against your nation. Hell, half of the players are in alliances anyway, so they're pretty much protected and guaranteed safety unless their alliance gets into a war. Alliance wars ARE actually in your control, like it or not.

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You don't have to RP all actions against your nation. Hell, half of the players are in alliances anyway, so they're pretty much protected and guaranteed safety unless their alliance gets into a war. Alliance wars ARE actually in your control, like it or not.

Not really. Allaince wars are between alliances, not individual members. Individuals often have no say in who or when they fight.

And they can hardly control global Radiation, now can they?

Except if they are the appointed leader...

Edited by Subtleknifewielder
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The same reason we do not have some of the most advanced pieces of technology in real life, money.

Money...when they already have the equipment, why would they need to sell it ALL to get about the same amount of less advanced tech? Not everything is high maintanence.

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Not really. Allaince wars are between alliances, not individual members. Individuals often have no say in who or when they fight.

And they can hardly control global Radiation, now can they?

Hey, last major war (the noCB war, I believe) a lot of people RPd plagues or crop failures or some disasters happening to their nation to explained what happened. Don't give me !@#$ about this, other people can do it and so can you.

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Not really. Allaince wars are between alliances, not individual members. Individuals often have no say in who or when they fight.

And they can hardly control global Radiation, now can they?

Global radiation is temporary and easily rp'd. Regarding it not being between individual members, I refer you to the surrender thread on this forum.

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Not really. Allaince wars are between alliances, not individual members. Individuals often have no say in who or when they fight.

And they can hardly control global Radiation, now can they?

Global radiation affects every single nation in the game. Therefore, no one has to RP it, and the strength reduction from it is negligable. Citizen counts are also extremely skewed in CNRP. And really, you can just leave an alliance if a war seems imminent. Like it or not, that's coming from a leader in the New Pacific Order.

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Global radiation is temporary and easily rp'd. Regarding it not being between individual members, I refer you to the surrender thread on this forum.

What surrender thread? Link please.

Global radiation affects every single nation in the game. Therefore, no one has to RP it, and the strength reduction from it is negligable. Citizen counts are also extremely skewed in CNRP. And really, you can just leave an alliance if a war seems imminent. Like it or not, that's coming from a leader in the New Pacific Order.

Leave an alliance when they might need me? Forgive me if I find the idea of doing that a less than honrable one, a coward's way out, if you ask me. not really a choic, in my eyes, when I swore a blood oath.

And many alliances more than frown on an action like that...they hunt down those that leave.

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Leave an alliance when they might need me? Forgive me if I find the idea of doing that a less than honrable one, a coward's way out, if you ask me. not really a choic, in my eyes, when I swore a blood oath.

And many alliances more than frown on an action like that...they hunt down those that leave.

But you still have a choice. Go join a neutral alliance. No more wars for you.

Or, you could go into peace mode like somebody we know.

Edited by Sargun
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What surrender thread? Link please.

Leave an alliance when they might need me? Forgive me if I find the idea of doing that a less than honrable one, a coward's way out, if you ask me. not really a choic, in my eyes, when I swore a blood oath.

And many alliances more than frown on an action like that...they hunt down those that leave.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=213

If you stay with your Alliance it's your choice and you will have to carry the consequences.

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But you still have a choice. Go join a neutral alliance. No more wars for you.

Or, you could go into peace mode like somebody we know.

Not much of a choice. Stay and risk fighting a war? Or leave and risk being branded a traitor and suffer even worse punishment? Either way you lose.

Nuetral alliance does not mean no wars. I look at GPA's history for that.

Going into perma-peace mode is hardly a choice anyone would make unless they're on a ZI list of some sort.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=213

If you stay with your Alliance it's your choice and you will have to carry the consequences.

refer to my above statement. Thanks for the link.

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Not much of a choice. Stay and risk fighting a war? Or leave and risk being branded a traitor and suffer even worse punishment? Either way you lose.

Go unaligned. Get a personal protection treatment. Become a protectorate in a very small alliance. There are many things to do.

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Go unaligned. Get a personal protection treatment. Become a protectorate in a very small alliance. There are many things to do.

All of which have the same potential risks.

Unaligned = raiders. Personal protection agreement, same thing, excepot your protector could easily be drawn into it as well, so now you've not only gotten yourself in trouble, but your protector. Protectorates still fight wars.

Any more suggestions?

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Not much of a choice. Stay and risk fighting a war? Or leave and risk being branded a traitor and suffer even worse punishment? Either way you lose.

Nuetral alliance does not mean no wars. I look at GPA's history for that.

Going into perma-peace mode is hardly a choice anyone would make unless they're on a ZI list of some sort.

refer to my above statement. Thanks for the link.

Who's talking about perma peace mode? I refer you to a certain Asian nation she has experience with temporary peace modes during war.

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All of which have the same potential risks.

Unaligned = raiders. Personal protection agreement, same thing, excepot your protector could easily be drawn into it as well, so now you've not only gotten yourself in trouble, but your protector. Protectorates still fight wars.

Any more suggestions?

Unaligned = raiders. Nobody will raid you if you put "will nuke raiders" and when they do, nuke them. They'll be in big trouble if they ask for help. Everybody knows this.

Personal protection agreements are specifically DESIGNED to get rid of raiders. Your protector is SUPPOSED to fight wars for you. derp, derp, derp again

and get a protectorate with someone like TCB.

They are not the "same" potential risks. I was in The Aquatic Brotherhood for over a year and the only war I got into was the UJW, and that's with treaties to alliances like MHA. Don't give me the "you can't avoid it" bull because anyone who wants to avoid war can. It's your choice to join an alliance like GGA.

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Unaligned = raiders. Nobody will raid you if you put "will nuke raiders" and when they do, nuke them. They'll be in big trouble if they ask for help. Everybody knows this.

Personal protection agreements are specifically DESIGNED to get rid of raiders. Your protector is SUPPOSED to fight wars for you. derp, derp, derp again

and get a protectorate with someone like TCB.

They are not the "same" potential risks. I was in The Aquatic Brotherhood for over a year and the only war I got into was the UJW, and that's with treaties to alliances like MHA. Don't give me the "you can't avoid it" bull because anyone who wants to avoid war can. It's your choice to join an alliance like GGA.

My point is, you can only avoid war for so long. NO MATTER WHAT OPTION YOU TAKE. You will eventually have to fight wars. And if you always skip around when there's a hint of a war, eventually you'll come to a point where no alliance will accept you.

The best option is to stick with the alliance, actually, because then you know you have friends to back you up.

EDIT: Rapid typing induces MANY spellling/grammatical errors.

Edited by Subtleknifewielder
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Who's talking about perma peace mode? I refer you to a certain Asian nation she has experience with temporary peace modes during war.

Even just for the duration of a war, they are not apleasant prospect. By the time you are able to come out of it, your economy is already suffering. Delaying that can often be worse than any war you will fight.

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My point is, you can only avoid war for so long. NO MATTER WHAT OPTION YOU TAKE. You will eventually have to fight wars. And if you always skip around when there's a hint of a war, eventually you'll come to a point where no alliance will accept you.

Thebest option is to stick with the alliance, actually, becauste thenyou know you have friends to back you up.

And if you know how to do war, your losses will be minimal. I RP'd damages to my country because of the war. It's not hard. I RP'd something that happened to my nation, because this is CNRP. If you don't want to do CNRP, fine. Leave.

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And if you know how to do war, your losses will be minimal. I RP'd damages to my country because of the war. It's not hard. I RP'd something that happened to my nation, because this is CNRP. If you don't want to do CNRP, fine. Leave.

But it is also CNRP. Not just CN, not just RP. The point is you're still forcing someone to RP something they don't wish to. if you don't wnat to RP with saved stats, it should be your choice. Not an enforced rule.

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