The GMs Court

[Sal Paradise]

People with IC claims for the land fight it out, while uninvolved parties (read China) meddle.

[Captain Enema]

[quote]OOC Ive been given permission from ITDA +it takes place from the moment American forces are within deadly range of the country and its clear what your intentions are from actions in Portugal.


IC

England was being invaded, and it was with a minimal intial defence from its protectors that was going to cause it to fall unless the English people fought back.
The English army had been building up with the help or Norwegian authorities, but only 100,000 of the 250,000 man English army was fully trained and armed. They had no tanks, no planes,no support, just themselves.

To avoid a massacre, the army scattered to the four winds to large cities, taking weapons and ammo with them and putting them in large stockpiles beneath the ground in sewer tunnels, in secluded areas like woods, pits they had dug and in their attics of the houses. Gunstores across the country were fewe and far between, only really stocking shotguns and hunting rifles, but it was enough, and from the moment the Americans had began their move against Britain, people began stocking up on weapons and ammo and forming local militias and restistance cells. Law enforcement went into hiding, taking all their equipment and weaponry, with them.
With the dispersion of the Army, Officers aided local militia and restistance forces into organised fighting groups, giving them crude training, focusing on guerilla tactics.
Across England cellers and attics were stocked with homemade explosives, normal houses turned into bomb factories.

100,000 professional armed soldiers, 150,000 unarmed professional soldiers, and 180,000 civilians, across the country, waiting.

By doing this all 250,000 soldiers managed to set up resistance cells across the country, Londom was command HQ, and using only household substances bought enmasse from DIY stores and farming stores, the restiance began stockpiling home made explosives, making concealed bombs to place inside cars and recruiting for the resitance by using posters and pirate radio stations.
John Connor, leader of the English resistance sent calls out across Europe using on the old frequencies old morse code to European Governments emergency channels.

"It has been over 1000 years since Britain was invaded, and now it is happening again, but not by a European force, but by Americans.
This is an official plea from the English people to aid us in our battle against the American forces"


So far, the restiance hadnt fought the Americans, they stayed hidden, waiting until the right time.
Connor waited. [/quote]

This is a post from Operation Thunderclap, made by Zoot Zoot who suddenly is coming into possesion of the UK after JED and YAWOO began their invasion. Normally, I'm all for a contested invasion, but in this case Zoot Zoot came into the scene, with IDTA's permission after the shooting started. He's claiming a 250,000 man army, no heavy equipment, that magically appear out of thin air.

My suggestion, as I have no real say in the matter it is just a suggestion, is that if Yawoo and Jed don't agree to this land give away the above post be scrubbed. Personally, I hope they do agree to it as it will ensure the entire rp semi-interesting and more of a challenge, rather than a land grab.

So my vote, nonbinding of course, is give Zoot a chance. If not......

Edited August 23, 2010 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Zoot Zoot]

Im not in possesion of the UK.
Yawoo and JED also dont have the land its still ITDA's.

I dont own England or administer it, im just RPing the insurgency against the American invasion, as there would be IRL, with permission from the lands owner.
less than half of the entire 250,000 professional soldiers are not armed, and yes, no heavy units

I also specified OOC, that it all takes place in the weeks leading up to the invasion of Britain, including the conquest of Portugal by American forces, which would of course have been on television.

The only combat in Britain atm is between American and Norwegian/swedish forces.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Zoot Zoot

[Captain Enema]

However, what your are doing is essentially time traveling. This resistance didn't come into existence until after they landed. They've been rping an invasion against IDTA and suddenly your jump into the picture claiming this all happened weeks before?

Uhh.. no.. time travel.

Personally, I hope they decide to allow it simply to make it interesting, but if they don't I can see why they'd say no.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1282567491' post='2427662']
However, what your are doing is essentially time traveling. This resistance didn't come into existence until after they landed. They've been rping an invasion against IDTA and suddenly your jump into the picture claiming this all happened weeks before?

Uhh.. no.. time travel.

Personally, I hope they decide to allow it simply to make it interesting, but if they don't I can see why they'd say no.
[/quote]

Be aware that in the middle of the German vs France war, Vince's Goths suddenly came into existance with full combat forces and no one complained then.

Also it isn't time travel, if Zoot has the land owners permission to use such forces then saying they existed before the invasion is fine as technically they belonged to whoever owned the land before and now they are Zoot's.

[Captain Enema]

The Goth business was scrubbed and Vince's actions were purged from the RP. And It is time travelling when Zoot is stepping back into time and creating something that DID not exist before the invasion.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1282571952' post='2427707']
The Goth business was scrubbed and Vince's actions were purged from the RP. And It is time travelling when Zoot is stepping back into time and creating something that DID not exist before the invasion.
[/quote]

Actually the way I look at it is that they did exist but were not active, and then when the invasion hit and Zoot took over they became active. It is easily explainable that way and if the land owner has given Zoot the land then he can do with it as he wishes whether you like it or not.

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1282564116' post='2427635']
Im not in possesion of the UK.
Yawoo and JED also dont have the land its still ITDA's.
[b]
I dont own England or administer it, im just RPing the insurgency against the American invasion, as there would be IRL, with permission from the lands owner.[/b]
less than half of the entire 250,000 professional soldiers are not armed, and yes, no heavy units

I also specified OOC, that it all takes place in the weeks leading up to the invasion of Britain, including the conquest of Portugal by American forces, which would of course have been on television.

The only combat in Britain atm is between American and Norwegian/swedish forces.
[/quote]


[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1282572144' post='2427708']
Actually the way I look at it is that they did exist but were not active, and then when the invasion hit and Zoot took over they became active. It is easily explainable that way and if the land owner has given Zoot the land then he can do with it as he wishes whether you like it or not.
[/quote]

Zoot has stated the land in question is not his. It is ITDA's.


I am fine with the rebellion so long as the numbers Zoot RPs are coming out of ITDA's numbers. If they aren't, then this rebellion needs to be wiped.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1282572144' post='2427708']
Actually the way I look at it is that they did exist but were not active, and then when the invasion hit and Zoot took over they became active. It is easily explainable that way and if the land owner has given Zoot the land then he can do with it as he wishes whether you like it or not.
[/quote]

Where is the RP that supports they existed and weren't active [i]before[/i] the invasion? Why would a UK resistance/insurgency group to fight against an American invasion exist before the war for that matter? That just reeks of *poof, here I am* and poor RPing. Now, nothing says he can't create one after the invasion, which would make the most sense. In fact...I think it'd make a nice[i] progression [/i]in the storyline.

ITDA never gave Zoot the land; he is allowing Zoot to RP an insurgency in his land.

[Zoot Zoot]

Actually,in the "Kingdom of England" thread, ITDA recognised my right to rule England, but did not officially confirm it, and the meeting takes place BEFORE the invasion of Great Britain, but not the invasion of Portugal, which was went underway the day after I made the Kingdom thread I believe.

And seeing as the invasion of Portugal/battles taking place on mainland Europe aswell as the time taken for the American fleets to gather and move, would mean I have had ample time to prepare such an insurgency to an extremly low level of competance.
So the way its done is pretty much its been almost a month ICly to the point of British invasion, giving me ample time to write a short post about how they are scattered, barely armed and in hiding throughout the country.

Moreover, as voodoo just said, that was more of a progression post towards a later insurgency.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Zoot Zoot

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1282575153' post='2427732']
Actually,in the "Kingdom of England" thread, ITDA recognised my right to rule England, but did not officially confirm it, and the meeting takes place BEFORE the invasion of Great Britain, but not the invasion of Portugal, which was went underway the day after I made the Kingdom thread I believe.

And seeing as the invasion of Portugal/battles taking place on mainland Europe aswell as the time taken for the American fleets to gather and move, would mean I have had ample time to prepare such an insurgency to an extremly low level of competance.
So the way its done is pretty much its been almost a month ICly to the point of British invasion, giving me ample time to write a short post about how they are scattered, barely armed and in hiding throughout the country.

Moreover, as voodoo just said, that was more of a progression post towards a later insurgency.
[/quote]


JED attacked England almost immediately after attacking Portugal. You would not have the time to train an army, much less organize any sort of resistance. Add to the fact that you, yourself, have stated that you are not a country - but allowed to RP in that country by ITDA leads me to state that either the numbers you use come out of ITDA or you don't RP a resistance in this manner at all.

[Zoot Zoot]

JED moved tens of thousands of soldiers, an armada and an aerial strike for RIGHT after attacking portugal?
It might be CNRP but even ICly, that would give me time to organise the openingstructure of resistance.

If this is your argument, that I wouldnt of had time, then everybody who re rolls or just starts CNRP cannot go "lolArmy" right off the bat and would have to RP it.

And that is how i percieve my RPing in England, wether ITDA means i OWN England, im not sure he wasnt specific, so take it up with him.
Eitherway, ive had the land owners permission, and seeing as he hasnt surrendered it to you, you dont own it and you cant determine what he does with his land or who he lets RP in it.

Moreover I already said, that its the opening post for a later insurgency, those soldiers wont be used until I deem fit.

So unless lynneth and IAT say I cant do it, Im going to continue with it.
And yes, I want both GM's to make a decision on it, so its undisputable that I either can, or cant.

Argument for:
*been given land owners permission.
*ICly been an ongoing RP since before the American attack, as noted in the "Kingdom of England" thread
*ICly, adequate time passed from first request of independance to have a trained army, but have hardly any weaponry, aswell as no heavy hardware.
*ICly specified, preperations ongoing since Portugese attack by the American forces, and world media coverage of the war which gave Britain an idea of what was to come with an American task force off shore.
*ICly specified, less than 1/4 of the 430,000 men are armed/have access to professional weaponry
*ICly specified insurgents are going to stay hidden and give the Americans no reason to begin anti insurgency operations.

Argument against.:
*Its going to take more time to grab the land.
*It means having to RP for longer
*It means fighting a war of insurgence through RP
*reacting to all attacks
*ICly having no idea what so ever that there shall be an insurgency
*having the chance that they are going to be removed from Britain by allied soldiers through numerical superiority.
*being messed around over land.

Need I say more?

IAT/Lynneth, make a ruling on this.
You have my arguments for, and my argument against it, is my insurgency allowed?

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1282579030' post='2427791']
JED moved tens of thousands of soldiers, an armada and an aerial strike for RIGHT after attacking portugal?
It might be CNRP but even ICly, that would give me time to organise the openingstructure of resistance.

If this is your argument, that I wouldnt of had time, then everybody who re rolls or just starts CNRP cannot go "lolArmy" right off the bat and would have to RP it.[/quote]

He had troops in Greenland, and an armada sitting off of England before Portugal was attacked. He set up his invasion so it could be started as soon as Portugal was attacked. Now, it's not up to me to give you a recap if you're too lazy to read the thread, so go read it and understand your argument is flawed.


[quote]And that is how i percieve my RPing in England, wether ITDA means i OWN England, im not sure he wasnt specific, so take it up with him.
Eitherway, ive had the land owners permission, and seeing as he hasnt surrendered it to you, you dont own it and you cant determine what he does with his land or who he lets RP in it.[/quote]

You can't simply start a rebellion against invading forces when you have no clue that you were about to be attacked first. The attack against England came before news about Portugal would have been able to be broadcasted. Therefore, why, exactly would a rebellion start taking place before anything happened? The short answer, it wouldn't. So, if you want to start a rebellion - go for it, but do it after the invasion aka now and do it with the knowledge that you can't simply have 100,000 soldiers out of nowhere. ITDA doesn't even have 100,000 soldiers there to begin with so you wouldn't have that number to RP against JED or I.

In short, GMs, wipe this current bastardization of a rebellion. If Zoot wishes to RP a rebellion, he should be forced to do so taking numbers from ITDA, as the land is now contested by JED and I and therefore the land is unable to be given away officially to anyone thus making it so Zoot would be unable to use his own stats in the rebellion.

[Captain Enema]

It comes down to this, IDTA did not officially recognize you as the owner of the land. That's hard cheese I know, and because of it Yawoo and Jed are more than in their right to say no. However, this is my question to Yawooo, if IDTA surrenders or what not can Zoot keep fighting if he gets permission to rp a percentage of IDTAs troops?

[Zoot Zoot]

You would be amazing how fast news about a full on invasion moves around the world.
You also just said he had a fleet off Englands coast, if i had a fleet and armada off Louisianas coast ive no doubt you would be suspicious, moreover if you read the KoE thread, see this post
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90482&view=findpost&p=2416655
Rebellion is already in the making.
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90482&view=findpost&p=2426950
this thread

Both events are give or take, are on the same timeline, and I have kept it so in the KoE thread

Moving troops from greenland into the English channel requires you still sail the coast of Britain, it will also take time to move that many troops all that way, move the fleet intoa position to attack, and land the troops.

[quote]So, if you want to start a rebellion - go for it, but do it after the invasion aka now and do it with the knowledge that you can't simply have 100,000 soldiers out of nowhere.[/quote]

Yawoo, as I have said TWICE now, my post today was the FIRST post of ESTABLISHMENT.
Meaning its the first part of my insurgency against you bud, im doing it now, so you dont just repeat the actions of today and "lolno"

If you really want me to, i will edit the post a little, but in the long term, it is not going to make a difference.

[Sargun II]

ITDA never recognized you as an actual owner of the land when you were "preparing", so you had no military forces to prepare. ITDA did not ICly recognize you as the owner of the land [b]after[/b] the invasion either, so as far as anyone is concerned you really don't have any right to that land in the first place.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Sargun

[Yawoo]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1282580731' post='2427827']
It comes down to this, IDTA did not officially recognize you as the owner of the land. That's hard cheese I know, and because of it Yawoo and Jed are more than in their right to say no. However, this is my question to Yawooo, if IDTA surrenders or what not can Zoot keep fighting if he gets permission to rp a percentage of IDTAs troops?
[/quote]

I'm always up for a good RP, and I think an insurgency, if properly RP'd, makes a good RP. So, if ITDA is willing to lose a percentage of his military numbers while Zoot fights an insurgency with them - then, yes I would be up for an insurgency right off the bat. If ITDA is unwilling to do that, then I would be willing to RP an insurgency with Zoot, but not with the numbers he is currently using as I don't think that would be feasible considering he never had a populace there.


[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1282580977' post='2427829']
You would be amazing how fast news about a full on invasion moves around the world.
You also just said he had a fleet off Englands coast, if i had a fleet and armada off Louisianas coast ive no doubt you would be suspicious, moreover if you read the KoE thread, see this post
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90482&view=findpost&p=2416655
Rebellion is already in the making.
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90482&view=findpost&p=2426950
this thread

Both events are give or take, are on the same timeline, and I have kept it so in the KoE thread

Moving troops from greenland into the English channel requires you still sail the coast of Britain, it will also take time to move that many troops all that way, move the fleet intoa position to attack, and land the troops.



Yawoo, as I have said TWICE now, my post today was the FIRST post of ESTABLISHMENT.
Meaning its the first part of my insurgency against you bud, im doing it now, so you dont just repeat the actions of today and "lolno"

If you really want me to, i will edit the post a little, but in the long term, it is not going to make a difference.
[/quote]

Zoot the fact is - you are not the owner of the land. Whatever preparations you have made - are null and void since you are not the owner of the land. You did not have the right to RP a citizen in that area since you were not the owner of the land. Therefore, whatever preparations you made, are invalid since, once again, you are not the owner of the land. Your argument about JED is invalid since he spent many RL days setting up his invasion, including troop transfers and logistics from the Eggman Empire. Now, as to your question on if I would be suspicious of a flotilla outside Louisiana, yes, of course I would - but that doesn't mean I'm going to have all my citizens abandon their jobs to store weapons, foodstuffs, and other items around my nation. If nations in CNRP were to do that, there wouldn't be room for wildlife.

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1282595973' post='2428080']
ITDA never recognized you as an actual owner of the land when you were "preparing", so you had no military forces to prepare. ITDA did not ICly recognize you as the owner of the land [b]after[/b] the invasion either, so as far as anyone is concerned you really don't have any right to that land in the first place.
[/quote]
Also, this.

[Captain Enema]

^this above is about as fair as you are going to get Zoot. I'd start rping the establishment of a more modest insurgency after the fact. Given you have no valid claim to the land beyond a promise by ITDA you've no other real recourse. Yawoo doesn't even have to give you either option, yet he's doing so.

[Zoot Zoot]

Spoken on IRC about it, at the minute, just consider the insurgency never happened, im going to edit the post now, ill see how i feel when everything gets into full swing.

[Executive Minister]

What were the finalized rules regarding submarine multipliers? I remember there being one that went by how much infra you had... what was it?

[king of cochin]

This is the submarine multiplier as has been accepted as of now.\

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=71953&st=20&p=1925741&#entry1925741"]Link[/url]

The second set, Infra+Tech and not just infra

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='king of cochin' timestamp='1283018411' post='2433962']
This is the submarine multiplier as has been accepted as of now.\

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=71953&st=20&p=1925741&#entry1925741"]Link[/url]

The second set, Infra+Tech and not just infra
[/quote]

That is a really silly multiplier when some people have tech in a higher multiplier than their infra level.

[Sal Paradise]

OK.. so this is me.

[quote]5,001-6,000: x3[/quote]

What am I multiplying by three?

And in terms of tech, I'm in the x4 bracket and will probably be x5 by next month with no change in infra. I really have no idea what I'm supposed to do with these numbers.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Sal Paradise

[Subtleknifewielder]

Guys, if you're in different brackets for tech and infra, obviously you go with the lower one.

[Sal Paradise]

Why not the higher one?