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An Announcement from OV and GGA


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Hmm Its rather complex, Perhaps even I don't understand my feelings on it I could list factors contributing to how I feel (I was going to) But I finished a short list and I realized while looking at it that while they were good reasons they still didn't feel like how I did.

So in the end, I feel like its worth waiting, seeing what happens. Couldn't explain why, just going with my gut.

Or maybe I'm just an old fart who's stuck in the good old days, who will be very disappointed in a few months time, who knows?

Well, at least you're being honest about the discrepancy. Although I dont know what you mean by the last bit, as the "good old days" involved VE pissing off GOONs, leaving the Initiative, and being curbstomped because the GGA wanted more Senate seats.

But like I said, Ill believe in the GGA's "change" mantra, when they start disowning the many, many, many benefits they "suffered" as a Hegemony player.

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I dont know what you mean by the last bit, as the "good old days" involved VE pissing off GOONs, leaving the Initiative, and being curbstomped because the GGA wanted more Senate seats.

Further back than that, I'm REALLY old school. :D

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Further back than that, I'm REALLY old school. :D

Right.

Well, Im Older school than you in any case, and given how cranky old men can be, Im not in much of a mood to play guessing games with a kid like you right now. This is about GGA, after all, not VE.

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This "Coup" as you call it, is prove that the GGA has solid internal procedures. Though i will admit that the current leadership is more committed to change than the previous leadership, the first steps towards turning the alliance in a different direction were already taken before the onset of the karma war.

There is nothing disingenuous about stating the truth that change was already underway.

The change in leadership and karma war just kicked it up into the next gear.

In the interest of playing fair it was indeed a coup and an illegal one at that. Procedurally it was an utter failure an a PR nightmare both internally and externally. It was also a major kick in the balls that i hope you guys learn from. However yes you do speak the truth we were in the midst of change way before the karma war, we just happened to have all the bad aired on the OWF with none of the good. Such is life i guess.

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Well, forgive me for my skepticism of the capacity for GGA's ability to change, considering they were the ones who came up with the idea for the Viridiacide to begin with. When I see a big announcement from GGA with you guys taking credit and apologizing for it, then maybe Ill give that much hyped "reform" some due.

By the way, Typoninja, im frankly shocked that you'd hold such contempt for the rest of the Hegemony over that, but not despise the GGA with at least equal fervor. Why the discrepancy?

Also this is flaud, in the context of this game none of this current govt. could even tell you what the Viridiacide was about. Actually i don't think any of the past govt. over the last year and some would even have much recollection of that war. I was literally a 4 month old nation at the time. All the beef you have with the GGA should be directed at members who have either quit the game entirely or moved on to new alliances a long time ago.

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Also this is flaud, in the context of this game none of this current govt. could even tell you what the Viridiacide was about. Actually i don't think any of the past govt. over the last year and some would even have much recollection of that war. I was literally a 4 month old nation at the time. All the beef you have with the GGA should be directed at members who have either quit the game entirely or moved on to new alliances a long time ago.

People like to hold grudges apparently.

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People like to hold grudges apparently.

I dont consider it a flawed point, nor do I consider myself holding a grudge. To the contrary, I shed no tears and was all for the Viridiacide back then. I simply felt like pointing out my own personal criteria for what would constitute "change" for the GGA. Such a watershed as accepting responsibility and apologizing for something which upstanding moral types like yourselves would surely regret, would serve as a pretty potent symbol of your "reformity", as it were.

However, if the GGA still feels it was in the right for starting the Green Civil War, then by all means, continue in that belief.

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Change,Change,Change...Thats what the GGA is commited to...We changed a whole lot and we moving on...I would have never though GGA and OV would be treaty partner today...But we are and we are kinda lookin forward to more to this new relationship...This is the first steps to solidify the GREEN unity...

Edited by mylife125
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I dont consider it a flawed point, nor do I consider myself holding a grudge. To the contrary, I shed no tears and was all for the Viridiacide back then. I simply felt like pointing out my own personal criteria for what would constitute "change" for the GGA. Such a watershed as accepting responsibility and apologizing for something which upstanding moral types like yourselves would surely regret, would serve as a pretty potent symbol of your "reformity", as it were.

However, if the GGA still feels it was in the right for starting the Green Civil War, then by all means, continue in that belief.

As someone who was around since before the war with Viridia, I can clearly tell you, you're being ridiculous for even implying the current political leadership should bear any culpability for it.

OOC: That's like trying to blame Obama for FDR's Japanese internment. It makes no damned sense.

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This "Coup" as you call it, is prove that the GGA has solid internal procedures.

Sorry, I did not understand how Coup suggests 'solid' internal procedures. It suggests the 'solid' internal procedures were not working or were bypassed, hence there was a need for a coup.

ShanePrice still owes an explanation as per his own words regarding that coup. Obviously its not an obligation. I guess you maybe aware of that information and so can suggest that Coup shows solid internal procedures.

Several of the problems GGA faced were I feel actually were internal, that stemmed outwards and became external.

Edited by shahenshah
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But like I said, Ill believe in the GGA's "change" mantra, when they start disowning the many, many, many benefits they "suffered" as a Hegemony player.

I'll believe it when a year or so goes by and there are no wars similar to the GGA-ITA war.

Also this is flaud, in the context of this game none of this current govt. could even tell you what the Viridiacide was about. Actually i don't think any of the past govt. over the last year and some would even have much recollection of that war. I was literally a 4 month old nation at the time. All the beef you have with the GGA should be directed at members who have either quit the game entirely or moved on to new alliances a long time ago.

The thing about GGA is, they do have a revolving door (witness you being on the outside now) but they always seem to manage to keep up with the launching random wars for no real reason gimmick. In particular, apart from the Viridicide, they pulled the hit on Hyperion (which will go down in history for Remarkably Pointless Attacks; Hyperion took very little damage in that war, and the Polars were doomed anyway because of Citadel), ITA, and others which I have now forgotten. In addition to just really dumb things like ejecting a triumvir for (apparently) objecting to NPO, stirring up a giant mess of drama, and then inviting him back to help with coordinating a war to support NPO.

For quite some time now, I've been dealing with GGA messes by proxy, due to the fact that Invicta was MDPed to not only NPO, but UPN, Valhalla and ODN, all GGA MDP+ partners. All of these alliances have suffered due to their connection to GGA. I've seen it.

That's why a lot of people are still very sanguine about GGA. Posts like this and this do not help in convincing me that this GGA is any different from the old GGA: an alliance whose primary skill is in the cultivation of treaty partners that it can use to prop itself up.

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I'll believe it when a year or so goes by and there are no wars similar to the GGA-ITA war.

The thing about GGA is, they do have a revolving door (witness you being on the outside now) but they always seem to manage to keep up with the launching random wars for no real reason gimmick. In particular, apart from the Viridicide, they pulled the hit on Hyperion (which will go down in history for Remarkably Pointless Attacks; Hyperion took very little damage in that war, and the Polars were doomed anyway because of Citadel), ITA, and others which I have now forgotten. In addition to just really dumb things like ejecting a triumvir for (apparently) objecting to NPO, stirring up a giant mess of drama, and then inviting him back to help with coordinating a war to support NPO.

For quite some time now, I've been dealing with GGA messes by proxy, due to the fact that Invicta was MDPed to not only NPO, but UPN, Valhalla and ODN, all GGA MDP+ partners. All of these alliances have suffered due to their connection to GGA. I've seen it.

That's why a lot of people are still very sanguine about GGA. Posts like this and this do not help in convincing me that this GGA is any different from the old GGA: an alliance whose primary skill is in the cultivation of treaty partners that it can use to prop itself up.

In part to the revolving door:

Not entirely true or accurate, I'm on the outside on my own volition, and under good terms no less. This after almost 2 and a 1/2 years of service to the GGA. We did let members return to a degree in that we were weren't going to stop someone from coming back if they left in good standing and wished to rejoin the alliance a lot of the time at a reduced rank than when they left, however there was even a point where that was discontinued as well (we're talking repeat offenders).

On useless wars:

I won't make any attempt to hide that fact. The GGA did take part in several wars that could be deemed pointless. But again you have to remember than even I wasn't a Triumvir during the hyperion war. That normally wouldn't mean anything but in this instance i was the most senior member of the Triumvirate up until my resignation. So again we're back to pointing fingers and accusing a govt. that really had no involvement in past indiscretions.

Did we apologize for them? No we did not. Did we feel responsible for actions that took place when most of the current upper govt. didn't even exist? No we certainly did not. I can understand looking at the GGA with some skepticism but it was mostly displaced and definitely held our reasoning for continuing down the path we were already being pushed down. What was an alliance to do when being challeneged the way the GGA has been over the last two plus years? Dumping our only allies would be suicide and keeping them was a PR nightmare. Thus the GGA is at where it's at.

On Ridiculous PR:

For reasons i won't go into here as i don't wish to point fingers after the fact i will only this, the source of bad PR can still be found within the GGA. However they seem to have a handle on that to which i say kudos to them. In a govt. system such as what they have, convoluted messages are the norm as nine times out of ten we as govt. members had no idea what the others were doing.

None of the instances you bring up, i can take sole credit for, however no one within the ranks of the GGA could be deemed "the incompetent one" as we were all being fed different lines from people who "should" have had a handle on what they were talking about in the first place.

If they truly have a handle on that and i suspect they do, than dirty laundry being aired in public would be a thing of the past for the GGA.

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In part to the revolving door:

Not entirely true or accurate, I'm on the outside on my own volition, and under good terms no less. This after almost 2 and a 1/2 years of service to the GGA. We did let members return to a degree in that we were weren't going to stop someone from coming back if they left in good standing and wished to rejoin the alliance a lot of the time at a reduced rank than when they left, however there was even a point where that was discontinued as well (we're talking repeat offenders).

The revolving door is a reference to the sheer number of triumvirs the GGA has had. It's quite dizzying. It's really got nothing to do with whether people were booted or left voluntarily or whatever.

On useless wars:

I won't make any attempt to hide that fact. The GGA did take part in several wars that could be deemed pointless. But again you have to remember than even I wasn't a Triumvir during the hyperion war. That normally wouldn't mean anything but in this instance i was the most senior member of the Triumvirate up until my resignation. So again we're back to pointing fingers and accusing a govt. that really had no involvement in past indiscretions.

Did we apologize for them? No we did not. Did we feel responsible for actions that took place when most of the current upper govt. didn't even exist? No we certainly did not. I can understand looking at the GGA with some skepticism but it was mostly displaced and definitely held our reasoning for continuing down the path we were already being pushed down. What was an alliance to do when being challeneged the way the GGA has been over the last two plus years? Dumping our only allies would be suicide and keeping them was a PR nightmare. Thus the GGA is at where it's at.

You miss the point entirely.

GGA has had a fondness for starting useless wars, sometimes pulling its allies in with them. I know. Invicta got sucked in to one of your wars, once, thanks to our (now slightly shorter) list of shared allies.

Dumping your allies would not only have been suicide, it would also have been backstabbing the people who supported you time and again when, quite frankly, I wouldn't have, and an awful lot of people wouldn't have either - and they probably shouldn't have. Really.

On Ridiculous PR:

For reasons i won't go into here as i don't wish to point fingers after the fact i will only this, the source of bad PR can still be found within the GGA. However they seem to have a handle on that to which i say kudos to them. In a govt. system such as what they have, convoluted messages are the norm as nine times out of ten we as govt. members had no idea what the others were doing.

None of the instances you bring up, i can take sole credit for, however no one within the ranks of the GGA could be deemed "the incompetent one" as we were all being fed different lines from people who "should" have had a handle on what they were talking about in the first place.

If they truly have a handle on that and i suspect they do, than dirty laundry being aired in public would be a thing of the past for the GGA.

You appear to be claiming here that an individual is responsible for the GGA's PR situation, then claiming that it's the fault of the system. I actually suspect that the latter is true.

However, the GGA's problem is not so much airing dirty laundry in public, but rather its many-years-old attitude of promoting a program of aggressive behaviour that can only be made effective through the support of its allies. This is what it needs to do: it needs to start building an alliance that achieves things independently of its allies.

You know, like a normal alliance. <_<

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The revolving door is a reference to the sheer number of triumvirs the GGA has had. It's quite dizzying. It's really got nothing to do with whether people were booted or left voluntarily or whatever.

You miss the point entirely.

GGA has had a fondness for starting useless wars, sometimes pulling its allies in with them. I know. Invicta got sucked in to one of your wars, once, thanks to our (now slightly shorter) list of shared allies.

Dumping your allies would not only have been suicide, it would also have been backstabbing the people who supported you time and again when, quite frankly, I wouldn't have, and an awful lot of people wouldn't have either - and they probably shouldn't have. Really.

You appear to be claiming here that an individual is responsible for the GGA's PR situation, then claiming that it's the fault of the system. I actually suspect that the latter is true.

However, the GGA's problem is not so much airing dirty laundry in public, but rather its many-years-old attitude of promoting a program of aggressive behaviour that can only be made effective through the support of its allies. This is what it needs to do: it needs to start building an alliance that achieves things independently of its allies.

You know, like a normal alliance. <_<

Not my alliance, just trying to clear things up from an outsider's point of view at this point. You are right though nothing is going to make things go away but time. Hopefully they tread carefully.

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However, the GGA's problem is not so much airing dirty laundry in public, but rather its many-years-old attitude of promoting a program of aggressive behaviour that can only be made effective through the support of its allies. This is what it needs to do: it needs to start building an alliance that achieves things independently of its allies.

You know, like a normal alliance. <_<

Which is why we wrote a treaty with them, to give them the breathing space they need to make these changes. They're already making the first steps in this process. Fresh faces, fresh ideas, and I expect to see MANY changes in GGA as the months go on. It's an exciting process to watch. :D

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Which is why we wrote a treaty with them, to give them the breathing space they need to make these changes. They're already making the first steps in this process. Fresh faces, fresh ideas, and I expect to see MANY changes in GGA as the months go on. It's an exciting process to watch. :D

With all due respect, Flonker, I've heard this one before, and I won't believe it until quite some time has gone by.

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