An apology to the GPA

[Rickyman1984]

Change is change.

Any "moral" slant on it is entirely subjective.

Huh, so if NPO had thrown a "Sith" into their name and said "Viceroys" were a change to Planet Bob, Planet Bob thrives on change, and that change is entirely subjective. No one can be upset by it and should've heartily thanked NPO for shaking up the system?

Damn, they could've avoided the whole Karma war.

[Heft]

Huh, so if NPO had thrown a "Sith" into their name and said "Viceroys" were a change to Planet Bob, Planet Bob thrives on change, and that change is entirely subjective. No one can be upset by it and should've heartily thanked NPO for shaking up the system?

Damn, they could've avoided the whole Karma war.

You're silly.

[Rickyman1984]

You're silly.

I know. And it's very late here. However I'm getting sick of cultural relativism used as an excuse for acting like jerks.

[Ragashingo]

Poaching members should not be an act that is considered a horrible evil. Personally asking a few people to leaving their alliance and join yours is a sign of respect to those people. Mass messaging alliance members gets more dicey because it would be very annoying if it happened all the time, but an easily deleted recruitment message should never be the ground for outrage or threats of war. Just tell your members to delete the thing and move on.

[TehChron]

No, it wasn't. People RIOTED over Polaris's foundation.

The current Emperor of the NPO signed petition against Polaris receiving a mask even, and many of us were in arms against them.

Don't claim a standard where none existed. If you weren't around back then, please don't try to talk to about it.

Ah...What exactly is your point here?

He is actually correct, and I personally was around back then. Sure folks rioted (GATO under Chris_Kaos and NAAC...Thats about it) but everyone pretty much went along with it since NAAC was being destroyed and it was viewed as important to have one dominant alliance per color sphere back then.

So yeah, Polaris was formed off poaching under far more harsh circumstances, but if you want to talk about the justification of that entire war, Ill be happy to knock you around with why PWII was entirely justified. If you want to talk about poaching, well, theres your answer right there about why theres some acceptability for poaching (I believe the line is drawn by Polaris in "Poaching from the alliance while a member" which I believe some folks who invoked Polaris' example were guilty of themselves *cough*Chimaera*cough*).

Well, aside from the stuff covered, I really cant see any other possible points of contention you bring up.

[Heft]

The issue is over and done with. All those involved and all those offended have received a satisfactory conclusion. If you insist on continuing to provoke an argument with my alliance then I suspect you will receive an argument because we're not exactly known for shirking arguments, but it's entirely unnecessary and you really have no place in this issue.

[Fireandthepassion]

<snip>

It is the reason why many of us were pissed off in ODN, because they were directly pulling from NAAC. The imperialism was because they recruited from NAAC was as well their formation on blue. Both showed the NPO imperialism, and we did not like either. You remember the formation of bLUE on the Blue sphere, so that NAAC members would have another place to go, besides diet NPO?

(hahahah I haven't said diet NPO in years)

But wasn't it common knowledge that the NpO was formed just to grief the NAAC?

[Heft]

I hardly see how the foundation of Polaris is relevant here.

[Matthew Conrad]

Poaching members should not be an act that is considered a horrible evil. Personally asking a few people to leaving their alliance and join yours is a sign of respect to those people. Mass messaging alliance members gets more dicey because it would be very annoying if it happened all the time, but an easily deleted recruitment message should never be the ground for outrage or threats of war. Just tell your members to delete the thing and move on.

Even if I agreed with you on these basic points, it doesn't take into account the wording of the message. Whether it was for fun or not, you have to admit it was still done in poor taste.

[Starfox101]

Well, this apology is better than the one you gave to us in Great War One. Barely.

You're a liar, Ivan, and this apology is terrible. We all know you aren't sincere and don't regret it. Unfortunately, your fanboys will still think you're literally a god, and hail everything you do while condemning anyone else who does stuff like this.

You're just as bad as you were back in the day. I'll always keep a watchful eye on you.

[Heft]

Even if I agreed with you on these basic points, it doesn't take into account the wording of the message. Whether it was for fun or not, you have to admit it was still done in poor taste.

Hence, the apology.

[Bob]

Ah...What exactly is your point here?

He is actually correct, and I personally was around back then. Sure folks rioted (GATO under Chris_Kaos and NAAC...Thats about it) but everyone pretty much went along with it since NAAC was being destroyed and it was viewed as important to have one dominant alliance per color sphere back then.

So yeah, Polaris was formed off poaching under far more harsh circumstances, but if you want to talk about the justification of that entire war, Ill be happy to knock you around with why PWII was entirely justified. If you want to talk about poaching, well, theres your answer right there about why theres some acceptability for poaching (I believe the line is drawn by Polaris in "Poaching from the alliance while a member" which I believe some folks who invoked Polaris' example were guilty of themselves *cough*Chimaera*cough*).

Well, aside from the stuff covered, I really cant see any other possible points of contention you bring up.

You seem to miss ODN, who was under your jackboot at the time (as you were NPO, not saying you still are ).

That whole situation was a crazy one, and I would be glad to debate PWII in a different thread with you, but obviously not here. I think I am personally lost now at OOC: 3:14AM and I don't even remember what my point was. I'll come back to it in the morning /OOC

[Matthew Conrad]

Hence, the apology.

I know, I'm referencing any given instance in which similar wording is used since the person I quoted was also generalizing.

[TehChron]

Well, this apology is better than the one you gave to us in Great War One. Barely.

You're a liar, Ivan, and this apology is terrible. We all know you aren't sincere and don't regret it. Unfortunately, your fanboys will still think you're literally a god, and hail everything you do while condemning anyone else who does stuff like this.

You're just as bad as you were back in the day. I'll always keep a watchful eye on you.

I'm sure it'll always make a difference, Starfox.

Listen, Ivan actually did not need to give this apology. Thats been said several times already. He did it because he wanted to. Thats a definition of sincerity right there. If you have a problem with it, thats funny, because I dont see what you have to do with the folks this apology is directed to.

Besides, Rebel Virginia already gave the NSO BTA's full political support. Are you suddenly contradicting him now? OMGBTADRAMAZ.

You seem to miss ODN, who was under your jackboot at the time (as you were NPO, not saying you still are tongue.gif).

You guys werent allowed to riot back then

[Fallen Fool]

And you were here to see it, right? Please don't argue what you didn't see. I may not have been on the political insides of the NPO, but I was on the outside looking in from the ODN. I know what we were thinking, and I know that what you are stating is incorrect from my memory of what happened.

I don't have to have been here then to know you're revising history my nubish friend.

After all, if you're revising the revisions then you're still a revisionist. Get it?

It is the reason why many of us were pissed off in ODN, because they were directly pulling from NAAC. The imperialism was because they recruited from NAAC was as well their formation on blue. Both showed the NPO imperialism, and we did not like either. You remember the formation of bLUE on the Blue sphere, so that NAAC members would have another place to go, besides diet NPO?

(hahahah I haven't said diet NPO in years)

So you're admitting that you approved of bLUE recruiting NAAC members but did not approve of Polar recruiting NAAC members? Why is that?

They don't use it, so they might as well not.

Oh Bob. "If you don't use it you lose it" is a fallacy.

As such, they do have the capability to wage war and they can defend themselves militarily though admittedly the competency of said defense is a whole other debate.

The intelligent should define morality then, I assume?

I base my morality on the Commandments handed down by almighty Admin.

Huh, so if NPO had thrown a "Sith" into their name and said "Viceroys" were a change to Planet Bob, Planet Bob thrives on change, and that change is entirely subjective. No one can be upset by it and should've heartily thanked NPO for shaking up the system?

Damn, they could've avoided the whole Karma war.

Why would the New Pacific Sith Order have resulted in a different end result then the New Pacific Order? Or are you talking about the New Sith Pacific Order? Or perhaps the Sith New Pacific Order? Or even the New Pacific Order Sith?

Edit: Removed certain tags for a certain someone

Edited July 4, 2009 by Fallen_Fool

[Bob]

You guys werent allowed to riot back then

Roll them now for it?

We didn't in public, but the reasoning for that is as you stated, we had limits on us by the Emperor.

[Starfox101]

I'm sure it'll always make a difference, Starfox.

Listen, Ivan actually did not need to give this apology. Thats been said several times already. He did it because he wanted to. Thats a definition of sincerity right there. If you have a problem with it, thats funny, because I dont see what you have to do with the folks this apology is directed to.

Besides, Rebel Virginia already gave the NSO BTA's full political support. Are you suddenly contradicting him now? OMGBTADRAMAZ.

First off, I don't care if I'm not involved. When has that ever stopped me? Just because I'm not a member of an involved party does not mean I can't shed my two cents when you plaster this on a global stage. I thought when we got rid of the NPO we wouldn't have to hear that line anymore, but hey, you guys are doing a good impersonation.

Secondly, nobody ever has to do anything. I fail to see how that's relevant at all. Are you saying he's a nice guy for saying sorry? Should I praise him for his kindness? We all know he's not sorry. He only did this for PR. There is simply no other reason why Ivan would apologize.

Finally, I don't care what my alliance does. Never have. I am my own person. I am Starfox101. You know me well, and you should know I march to my own beat and don't take orders from anyone.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Starfox101

[Ragashingo]

Even if I agreed with you on these basic points, it doesn't take into account the wording of the message. Whether it was for fun or not, you have to admit it was still done in poor taste.

No I don't.

The messages were done in the style that the NSO uses. There was nothing really offensive about the contents at all. Instead of wasting time being offended or outraged I suggest you guys work up some counter messages. Here's some fun points you might use:

1. We respect and uphold traditional and widely recognized CN standards

2. We stay out of wars and use our military might expressly to further the growth your nation

3. We are above the petty squabbles of typical CN alliances and only only declare wars in extreme and dire circumstances

Stuff like that. Stuff that certainly appeals to what I figure is a smaller yet still significant percentage of CN players.

Because really guys, we're all here to conflict our views with the views of others. We do it with war and with debates in this venue. Why does that suddenly end when it comes to offering members of an alliance a better option, as we see it?

(I do fear what might happen to my nation's mailroom if recruitment messages start flying from every direction though... but that's a different issue.)

[edit]By the way I also think this apology is silly, if only because I don't really see any wrong that was committed in the first place...[/edit]

Edited July 4, 2009 by Ragashingo

[shaiker]

Great apology now i think if you could forward oh say 500 million in cash and 5000 tech i think we would begin to believe it. Not sure how yah could bump heads with an alliance that barely even does anything.....

[Wa Mu]

The issue is over and done with. All those involved and all those offended have received a satisfactory conclusion. If you insist on continuing to provoke an argument with my alliance then I suspect you will receive an argument because we're not exactly known for shirking arguments, but it's entirely unnecessary and you really have no place in this issue.

For someone who wishes to change the bad norms of present-day Planet Bob, the bold-faced part of your statement strikes me as abnormal. I people would now want open debate for anything and everything.

[Marty McFly]

No, it wasn't. People RIOTED over Polaris's foundation.

The current Emperor of the NPO signed petition against Polaris receiving a mask even, and many of us were in arms against them.

Don't claim a standard where none existed. If you weren't around back then, please don't try to talk to about it.

I'm late and Chron effectively answered this post, but this man claims to be an expert on the topic of the New Polar Order

Actually we rolled CIN because they were recruiting from our forum WHILE MEMBERS OF POLAR.

I'm sure none of you remember this but before around Great War III it was quite common to recruit from other alliances. Once NPO started running out of cb's things like "poaching" all the sudden became verboten. I've read this entire discussion and I've yet to see a good explanation as to why recruiting someone from an alliance is wrong. To be quite frank that's how we built Polaris back in the day. I sent a recruiting message to everyone in the game. Nobody rolled us then, and that was before the Initiative or even the Axis of Awesome. I used to send out recruiting messages to NAAC members about once or twice a month. NAAC never went to war with us over it, and they would have gone to war with us over wearing the wrong color socks if they could have gotten away with it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is just another one of those stupid, arbitrary things that everyone thinks is a hard and fast rule of conduct but in fact it's something that no one can explain without going recursive. Stop living in the box NPO put you all in.

Ivan claimed the very same in regards to building the NpO, but it is found in our private discussion rooms and I therefore can not link that to you.

[Heft]

For someone who wishes to change the bad norms of present-day Planet Bob, the bold-faced part of your statement strikes me as abnormal. I people would now want open debate for anything and everything.

Hmm? They are free to debate whatever they want, it's just unnecessary. I'm not really sure your point is sharp as you thought.

[Wa Mu]

Hmm? They are free to debate whatever they want, it's just unnecessary. I'm not really sure your point is sharp as you thought.

But you are trying to discourage debate by saying it is "unnecessary" and that they "really have no place in this issue." Don't you find it weird that you wish to change norms while trying to keep this one?

[pericles8th]

Good to see the apology,

I hope that Ivan has learned something here. Just cause his name is Moldavi doesn't mean that he owns this whole cyberworld and can do as he pleases including spitting in the face of neutral alliances. Part of me hoped that they would retaliate and wipe that smirk off his face along with the rest of his cronies. Oh well maybe some other time.....maybe.

[TehChron]

But you are trying to discourage debate by saying it is "unnecessary" and that they "really have no place in this issue." Don't you find it weird that you wish to change norms while trying to keep this one?

Perhaps it was just Heft expressing his hope that a simple apology wouldnt transform into another [ooc]56 page thread[/ooc] abomination. And therefore uninvolved parties would just leave it be.