Griff Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Actually read the apology. You know he'll see only what he wants to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayhawkColin Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Not just ignores international norms, but makes them better. I wouldn't mind returning to some of the earlier norms before Shark week and other things that happened under the NPO's rule. Things were a better place when you could speak your mind freely without getting gunned down for them. Interesting, I remember Ivan being the emperor of the NPO when they decided that ODN and NAAC (edited from NPO, typo) shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind freely. Also, there is a huge difference between speaking your mind and poaching other alliances members. Poaching has been considered an awful act for a long time, even that time when you could speak your mind "freely". Edited July 4, 2009 by JayhawkColin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Interesting, I remember Ivan being the emperor of the NPO when they decided that ODN and NAAC (edited from NPO, typo) shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind freely. Also, there is a huge difference between speaking your mind and poaching other alliances members. Poaching has been considered an awful act for a long time, even that time when you could speak your mind "freely". Only in the fantasy world of marshmellows and dasies that this imaginary international court has claimed rule over. Edited July 4, 2009 by SpoiL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Interesting, I remember Ivan being the emperor of the NPO when they decided that ODN and NAAC (edited from NPO, typo) shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind freely. Also, there is a huge difference between speaking your mind and poaching other alliances members. Poaching has been considered an awful act for a long time, even that time when you could speak your mind "freely".. Oh, I get it, your still bitter about the Great War era. That was over two years ago, get over it. Edited July 4, 2009 by youwish959 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Interesting, I remember Ivan being the emperor of the NPO when they decided that ODN and NAAC (edited from NPO, typo) shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind freely. Also, there is a huge difference between speaking your mind and poaching other alliances members. Poaching has been considered an awful act for a long time, even that time when you could speak your mind "freely". Grudges. They get you places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayhawkColin Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Oh, I get it, your still bitter about the Great War era. That was over two years ago, get over it. I wasn't really that involved in GW I, I am over. I just think that Ivan is showing that he hasn't changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 It has been said many times tonight that you are free to do exactly that. Any alliance that does send us messages can expect to receive messages back, but you are free to do as you choose. Lovely. I didn't say that NSO was being hypocritical, only that you were exploiting alliances who could not protect themselves. I'd love to see you guys try something like this on Sparta, or RoK, or Gremlins, see how that goes for you. The game thrives on change, the Karma war could be seen as an example of that. The [OOC]game[/OOC] thrives on positive change. This is not an example of that. Interesting, I remember Ivan being the emperor of the NPO when they decided that ODN and NAAC (edited from NPO, typo) shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind freely. Also, there is a huge difference between speaking your mind and poaching other alliances members. Poaching has been considered an awful act for a long time, even that time when you could speak your mind "freely". Jayhawk, it only matters that they are right and we are wrong. Do try to keep up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Interesting, I remember Ivan being the emperor of the NPO when they decided that ODN and NAAC (edited from NPO, typo) shouldn't be allowed to speak their mind freely. Also, there is a huge difference between speaking your mind and poaching other alliances members. Poaching has been considered an awful act for a long time, even that time when you could speak your mind "freely". According to two former Emperors, Polaris was built up from poaching (find the quotes in the massive thread). Back in the day, and before the NPO's hegemony, it was ok; that is what Ivan is trying to revert to, moving away from norms set by the NPO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Lovely. I didn't say that NSO was being hypocritical, only that you were exploiting alliances who could not protect themselves. I'd love to see you guys try something like this on Sparta, or RoK, or Gremlins, see how that goes for you.The [OOC]game[/OOC] thrives on positive change. This is not an example of that. Jayhawk, it only matters that they are right and we are wrong. Do try to keep up here. Oh boo hoo cry me a river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) According to two former Emperors, Polaris was built up from poaching (find the quotes in the massive thread). Back in the day, and before the NPO's hegemony, it was ok; that is what Ivan is trying to revert to, moving away from norms set by the NPO. No, it wasn't. People RIOTED over Polaris's foundation. The current Emperor of the NPO signed petition against Polaris receiving a mask even, and many of us were in arms against them. Don't claim a standard where none existed. If you weren't around back then, please don't try to talk to about it. Oh boo hoo cry me a river. BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Good enough? Seriously, tired line. Edited July 4, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireandthepassion Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 No, it wasn't. People RIOTED over Polaris's foundation.The current Emperor of the NPO signed petition against Polaris receiving a mask even, and many of us were in arms against them. Don't claim a standard where none existed. If you weren't around back then, please don't try to talk to about it. According to Sponge via his own recounts said that Polaris freely recruited from NAAC when first formed, and Sponge went on to say that it was a norm that alliances back in the day up until GWIII that alliances would openly recruit from other alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Lovely. I didn't say that NSO was being hypocritical, only that you were exploiting alliances who could not protect themselves. I'd love to see you guys try something like this on Sparta, or RoK, or Gremlins, see how that goes for you.If this incident has proved anything it's that neutral alliances are perfectly capable of defending themselves Bob.The [OOC]game[/OOC] thrives on positive change. This is not an example of that.Change is change. Any "moral" slant on it is entirely subjective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) According to Sponge via his own recounts said that Polaris freely recruited from NAAC when first formed, and Sponge went on to say that it was a norm that alliances back in the day up until GWIII that alliances would openly recruit from other alliances. I just said that that was the case regarding Polaris, and that many people were extremely angry about it. I don't ever recall it being a norm to recruit from alliances, as you would think that my members would have received PM's and asked us about them, unless it was only some alliances and not ODN. I seem to recall being a recruiter and taking care to not recruit from allied nations, unless somehow history has changed (I was a Senator of ODN during GW1, and a member during the Citrus War +++) If this incident has proved anything it's that neutral alliances are perfectly capable of defending themselves Bob. Politically? Yes. Militarially? No. Change is change. Any "moral" slant on it is entirely subjective. I cannot argue with that. However, as this incident has shown, this is not a positive change, as viewed by the large majority of CN, but rather a bad one. Edited July 4, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAura Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 If this incident has proved anything it's that neutral alliances are perfectly capable of defending themselves Bob.Change is change. Any "moral" slant on it is entirely subjective. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I seem to recall being a recruiter and taking care to not recruit from allied nations, unless somehow history has changed Note how you don't deny recruiting from non-allied nations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayhawkColin Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 According to two former Emperors, Polaris was built up from poaching (find the quotes in the massive thread). Back in the day, and before the NPO's hegemony, it was ok; that is what Ivan is trying to revert to, moving away from norms set by the NPO. The fact that it was built by poaching does not mean that it was an internationally accepted norm. The NPO created Polaris during PWII, Modalvi put one of his cronies from the NPO on the throne and told members of the NAAC that if they joined the NpO wars against them would stop. Thus many members of the NAAC joined the NpO. It was poaching, but not in the same way as this was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrator Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Lovely. I didn't say that NSO was being hypocritical, only that you were exploiting alliances who could not protect themselves. I'd love to see you guys try something like this on Sparta, or RoK, or Gremlins, see how that goes for you. Yeah. We are really bullying around someone when they are many times our size. I think the neutral alliances would find your comments quite offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) somehow history has changed Well apparently you're "pulling a Vladimir" and revising history.Let's face it Bob. The reason people were pissed off when Polar was founded was not because most of the members came from NAAC. No, instead it was because the foundation of Polar was viewed as a prime example of NPO Imperialism. As such, instead of being comparable to this incident, it's actually more akin to the foundation of the Agora Accords. Edited July 4, 2009 by Fallen_Fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venom4Viper Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Good to see this issue fixed! This is a diplomacy WIN and once again o/ NSO!! Well done to all the parties envolved B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireandthepassion Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) I just said that that was the case regarding Polaris, and that many people were extremely angry about it.I don't ever recall it being a norm to recruit from alliances, as you would think that my members would have received PM's and asked us about them, unless it was only some alliances and not ODN. I seem to recall being a recruiter and taking care to not recruit from allied nations, unless somehow history has changed No offense Bob, but I don't think a lot of people were rioting because of the open recruitment. I think they were more upset over NPO putting a colony* on the blue sphere. However, I am sure there were some double standards going on. [OOC] I made my first nation a week before GWIII so I can't entirely comment on the political atmosphere of GWI/II[/OOC]. *Out of respect for Polaris, as I am member, connecting the current New Polar Order with the old isn't something anyone should do. Time goes on alliances evolve. Edit: BLAST THAT FALLEN FAIL HAS TWARTED WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY! Edited July 4, 2009 by Fireandthepassion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Politically? Yes. Militarially? No.Neutral nations don't have the [OOC]war features of the game installed?[/OOC] I cannot argue with that. However, as this incident has shown, this is not a positive change, as viewed by the large majority of CN, but rather a bad one.Which would be a totally compelling argument if I believed in morality based on group consensus. Edited July 4, 2009 by Fallen_Fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Member "poaching" has never been something that people immediately go to war over. It has not necessarily been an every-day common thing, but it has only been a CB when a CB was necessary or desired. The norm of CN is that such things do not end in war. That norm has only been shifted in the last year or so by the hegemonic powers if leverage over someone were needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Note how you don't deny recruiting from non-allied nations! *GASP* My secret found out. Yeah. We are really bullying around someone when they are many times our size. I think the neutral alliances would find your comments quite offensive. Err.. I doubt it. I'm not saying that they are weak, but that they are neutral. They don't involve themselves in conflicts, and would be loath to go to war from what has been seen from them. I think its an admirable thing, not for me, but it is what they want to do. To go to war with you would get them involved in a conflict. And let's be honest here. If they go to war, Frostbite is a MDoAP. It activates, and now how big are you? Well apparently you're "pulling a Vladimir" and revising history. And you were here to see it, right? Please don't argue what you didn't see. I may not have been on the political insides of the NPO, but I was on the outside looking in from the ODN. I know what we were thinking, and I know that what you are stating is incorrect from my memory of what happened. Let's face it Bob. The reason people were pissed off when Polar was founded was not because most of the members came from NAAC. No, instead it was because the foundation of Polar was viewed as a prime example of NPO Imperialism. As such, instead of being comparable to this incident, it's actually more akin to the foundation of the Agora Accords. It is the reason why many of us were pissed off in ODN, because they were directly pulling from NAAC. The imperialism was because they recruited from NAAC was as well their formation on blue. Both showed the NPO imperialism, and we did not like either. You remember the formation of bLUE on the Blue sphere, so that NAAC members would have another place to go, besides diet NPO? (hahahah I haven't said diet NPO in years) Edited July 4, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 *GASP*My secret found out. I knew there was something evil about you. (okay I'm outta here >_>) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Neutral nations don't have the [OOC]war features of the game installed?[/OOC] They don't use it, so they might as well not. Which would be a totally compelling argument if I believed in morality based on group consensus. The intelligent should define morality then, I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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