Electron Sponge Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Right. By your logic a man shouldn't get angry if another man hits on his girlfriend. A very poor analogy. A better one would be offering someone a job who works for a different company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigbigadorlou Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I wonder if there's any proof that this whole poach thing works. I mean, did anyone actually leave TDO? Of course it doesn't work. That is the entire point. The idea of "poaching" is a manufactured offense. If a nation has joined your alliance then they have done so for a reason. If they are going to leave they would do so, with or without an invitation from elsewhere.The idea that it is somehow more glorified to send countless spam messages to new nations who haven't got a clue instead of messages to established nations that know what is going on and can make reasonable choices for themselves is ridiculous. Anyone that claims some moral superiority or self righteous honor because they disagree with the concept that open alliance recruitment is an acceptable practice only fools themselves. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=295921 ^I hope this guy isn't a troll, cause if he is, he went into a dangerous situation just to troll me it works, but not well. the thing is, do you really want to get bombarded with recruitment messages from all ends of the Bob? I certainly don't. Lets give up the right to poach lest we have our inboxes filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRCatD Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) A very poor analogy. A better one would be offering someone a job who works for a different company. That is no better, since one can work for multiple companies at the same time, but a nation cannot be in multiple alliances at the same time. I think the man getting angry on another man that hits on girlfriend analogy is very accurate. It's not because the alliance is concerned that its members aren't loyal, but that the alliance is offended if other alliances send recruitment messages to its members. Poaching shows you don't respect the other alliance's sovereignty. Edited July 4, 2009 by XRCatD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I have just today received a message from a prestigious Communist alliance.Unfortunately, it would only take me an official adoption of Sileathonomics by the Alliance for me to accept this invitation. Otherwise, who wouldn't love and be lured by such a convincing recruitment message? What alliance is this that is close to adopting Sileathonomics? Why have I not received a recruitment message from this alliance? --For the duration of Poach Week, I will not report to MHA any poaching attempts on myself-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 That is no better, since one can work for multiple companies at the same time, but a nation cannot be in multiple alliances at the same time. I think the man getting angry on another man that hits on girlfriend analogy is very accurate. It's not because the alliance is concerned that its members aren't loyal, but that the alliance is offended if other alliances send recruitment messages to its members. Poaching shows you don't respect the other alliance's sovereignty. A woman can have multiple boyfriends at the same time too if we're going to go down this road Lord what a terrible analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 A very poor analogy. A better one would be offering someone a job who works for a different company. People have been fired under such circumstances--in the NFL it is considered tampering and can cost a team draft picks. I also know of RL companies that have stopped doing business with others because they poached employees. Poaching in the business world in general is absolutely frowned upon. It is the reason that there are 'no compete' clauses in contracts. No, the "it's no big deal" defense doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 That is no better, since one can work for multiple companies at the same time, but a nation cannot be in multiple alliances at the same time. I think the man getting angry on another man that hits on girlfriend analogy is very accurate. It's not because the alliance is concerned that its members aren't loyal, but that the alliance is offended if other alliances send recruitment messages to its members. Poaching shows you don't respect the other alliance's sovereignty. But evidently one can have multiple girlfriends? Have you ever had a girlfriend? I can tell you from personal experience that that stuff doesn't fly. You're taking your life into your hands. lol Also, speaking as someone who is in multiple alliances at one time, I'd say your first point isn't necessarily true. Sure most alliances don't allow it as an unwritten rule, some as a written rule, but for the most part it's just another one of those arbitrary cultural mores imposed upon us because someone sometime said "hey you can't do that" so we don't. That one actually does make sense due to the potential conflicts of interest that would arise. Only the greatest and strongest are able to do it ably (Ivan, Tyga, and myself ). Recruiting aligned nations is an affront to an alliance's sovereignty? How exactly is it that sending someone a message is causing that alliance not to be able to govern? More to the point, do you think that the nation is the possession of the alliance, or of the ruler of the nation? I believe that the analogy of a company hiring someone is much more applicable because it is an organization with multiple members, some sort of hiring/admissions process, and a number of people working ostensibly toward the same goal. Comparing this to "stealing" someone's girlfriend (as if she were property and able to be stolen, but I digress) is over-emotionalizing the issue. I'd also note that I have a recruiting message in my signature. Am I "poaching"? You're all seeing it. Poaching is a ridiculous term, by the way. Also Sileath I don't think you have to worry about anyone wanting you in their alliance badly enough to send you a message asking you to join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Hm, this is not the best idea. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 What alliance is this that is close to adopting Sileathonomics? Why have I not received a recruitment message from this alliance?--For the duration of Poach Week, I will not report to MHA any poaching attempts on myself-- Sileathonomics cannot be applied to cybernations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 More to the point, do you think that the nation is the possession of the alliance, or of the ruler of the nation? A lot of people seem to think the nation is the possession of the alliance. Speaking for myself, I blame the GGA and their blood oath. Also Sileath I don't think you have to worry about anyone wanting you in their alliance badly enough to send you a message asking you to join. Well, zig might, and it was zig whose alliance he was asking about, although he doesn't realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electron Sponge Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 People have been fired under such circumstances--in the NFL it is considered tampering and can cost a team draft picks. I also know of RL companies that have stopped doing business with others because they poached employees. Poaching in the business world in general is absolutely frowned upon. It is the reason that there are 'no compete' clauses in contracts.No, the "it's no big deal" defense doesn't work. Among [ooc]the big multinational corporations and other monopolistic entities like the NFL[ooc], yeah maybe it is frowned upon. Actually that's a great example of what I'm talking about when I've referred to this as a subtle tyranny. They want to horde their talent to themselves, preventing its spread to someone else and thereby inhibiting the growth of others, and at the same time inhibiting both competition and quite possibly their own growth. Concurrently they are not compelled to better the working conditions of those workers, whether those conditions be environmental, financial, or ancillary benefits. It is a system which benefits those who do not want any competition. In many fields of work however, people change jobs more often than they change cars. You don't see those businesses at each others' throats. It's no big deal, in other words. This all boils down to your outlook on the world - are you someone who believes that the ultimate power over a nation belongs to the alliance it is currently a member of, or does it rest with the ruler of that nation? This is the question that needs to be asked repeatedly and answered honestly. The arguments against aligned recruiting have been recursive, overly emotive, and illogical. No one has been able to provide a good explanation yet as to why this practice is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayOvfEnnay Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) Please, Poach me. I'm a warmongering member of tLC with a thirst for blood. I like long walks on the corpse ridden beaches hidden from everyday society. OOC: For the record, America isn't attacking Australia because Australia has commercials on American television. In fact, they're pretty much letting them air it. /OOC Edited July 4, 2009 by JayOvfEnnay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigbigadorlou Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Also Sileath I don't think you have to worry about anyone wanting you in their alliance badly enough to send you a message asking you to join. I WANT YOU SOOO BAAAADDLY Well, zig might, and it was zig whose alliance he was asking about, although he doesn't realize it. don't worry. i've sent messages to most everyone that comments on this etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 That is no better, since one can work for multiple companies at the same time, but a nation cannot be in multiple alliances at the same time. Yes they can. Whether or not alliance's allow that is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ying Yang Mafia Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 When I think of alliances that I would recruit members from NSO is not one that comes to mind. Keep in mind I have never acted on such thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deth2munkies Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 BRB, converting NSO members to the light side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Blake Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 don't worry. i've sent messages to most everyone that comments on thisetc. OMG, stopping poaching me!!! Sovereignty or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Have some poached eggs on poach week. They will give you the power you need to poach from other alliances without getting that 11am slump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In Tyler We Trust Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Those needed to stay in the pan a little longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 ATTN zigbigadorlou: Your blatant recruitment attempts have not gone un-noticed in MFO. We hereby demand an apology, or you will face the conseqeunces of us B'awwing for 50 pages about how awful this is and how you're a very very very bad man. You have 24 hours to comply. Choose wisely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Archer Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) ATTN zigbigadorlou:Your blatant recruitment attempts have not gone un-noticed in MFO. We hereby demand an apology, or you will face the conseqeunces of us B'awwing for 50 pages about how awful this is and how you're a very very very bad man. You have 24 hours to comply. Choose wisely. This seems very serious, I'd do it if I were you. Anyway, NSO's stunt was an obvious PR stunt and attempt at changing what's considered out of bounds, otherwise they wouldn't have targeted the neutrals. Edited July 5, 2009 by Jonathan Archer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) Open season on NSO? Damn, I'm tempted myself. Just don't cry here when we send some back What alliance is this that is close to adopting Sileathonomics? Why have I not received a recruitment message from this alliance?--For the duration of Poach Week, I will not report to MHA any poaching attempts on myself-- Why would anyone recruit you? Edited July 5, 2009 by Griff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Why would anyone recruit you? Griff... IT'S ZIG. YOU KNOW WHO HE IS. I know perfectly well you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 OOC: For the record, America isn't attacking Australia because Australia has commercials on American television. In fact, they're pretty much letting them air it. /OOC ooc response: this is a terrible example since no one would have complained if NSO had mass PMed these alliances asking them to sell them tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pericles8th Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 I have just today received a message from a prestigious Communist alliance.Unfortunately, it would only take me an official adoption of Sileathonomics by the Alliance for me to accept this invitation. Otherwise, who wouldn't love and be lured by such a convincing recruitment message? Got same message.... Had me at "no forums" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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