An Open Letter to the NPO

[Ogaden]

1. The NPO ceases wars against the above alliances

2. They then start moving their PM nations into war mode.

3. Those nations then get attacked.

Is there something you don't understand about that?

I suppose that sounds perfectly fine to you.

What is "hostilities" then? Are they not allowed to counterattack? Does defending count as hostilities?

This is just one set of the terms.

Edited July 3, 2009 by James Dahl

[Midkn1ght]

But for Karma it is not about paying for the war, or their rebuilding, no, it is explicitly about 'preventing the NPO from ever being a threat again' -- that is to say, it is about preventing us from ever being able to rebuild (and let's face it, if they still see us as a threat as we stand at the moment, they're never going to be satisfied until every Pacifican is driven from the game).

For us it has absolutely nothing to do with pride, it is about what we, as an alliance (not just officials, but all of us) believe is best for our future. In our estimation agreeing to have every nation in our alliance completely decimated through 2 weeks of nuclear war, leaving us with no real ability to rebuild and no nation of any real strength (as someone who was over the highest possible warchest requirements in the Order, I can assure you that they don't survive 3 months of nuclear war in tact), followed by lengthy military, political and diplomatic restrictions, followed by unprecedented reparations that we could not afford, very potentially followed by more Karma aggression on the basis that we aren't following surrender terms, is not best for our future.

When Karma actually wants peace and offers feasible terms, rather than offering something insane followed by widespread agitation for perpetual war, we will be happy to see the war end.

Oh cry me a freaking river. You lot are so poor? You're sitting on over 35,654,000,000 (35.6 BILLION) in your top 60 peace mode nations alone for chests, 51 of the top 60 PM nations have the funds needed to instantly rebuild back to 4K-5K infra at least. Crying you're broke to folks who've gathered your intel isn't freaking working. You're not poor. Turtling for 2 weeks isn't going to make your nations unfixable. Not to even mention the WC some of the folks who are actually fighting are carrying around.

wholly unprecedented and unaffordable reparations

Funny, cause your buddies keep saying they can pay them easy, it's the 90% restriction that's impossible because of (pick one) A)ghosts, B)disobedience, or C)folks are on vacation. Funny how those disobedient broke ghosts on vacation can still buy expensive wonders each month, but they can't keep up with the game to fight though huh?

The terms as presented to NPO are so harsh that the minimum time for NPO to complete just paying the tech reps alone is anywhere from 7 months to almost 5 years.

Lol 5 years? That's almost as amusing as the guy in your other surrender thread claiming NPO won't come out because the PM nations don't want to get nuked 3 times a day =P

[Ogaden]

Oh cry me a freaking river. You lot are so poor? You're sitting on over 35,654,000,000 (35.6 BILLION) in your top 60 peace mode nations alone for chests, 51 of the top 60 PM nations have the funds needed to instantly rebuild back to 4K-5K infra at least. Crying you're broke to folks who've gathered your intel isn't freaking working. You're not poor. Turtling for 2 weeks isn't going to make your nations unfixable. Not to even mention the WC some of the folks who are actually fighting are carrying around.

Funny, cause your buddies keep saying they can pay them easy, it's the 90% restriction that's impossible because of (pick one) A)ghosts, B)disobedience, or C)folks are on vacation. Funny how those disobedient broke ghosts on vacation can still buy expensive wonders each month, but they can't keep up with the game to fight though huh?

Lol 5 years? That's almost as amusing as the guy in your other surrender thread claiming NPO won't come out because the PM nations don't want to get nuked 3 times a day =P

Stop whining.

Change your terms and you can get your tech farms for 6 months.

Or don't, see if I care.

Edited July 3, 2009 by James Dahl

[Matthew Conrad]

I suppose that sounds perfectly fine to you.

What is "hostilities" then? Are they not allowed to counterattack? Does defending count as hostilities?

This is just one set of the terms.

Hostilities are wars going on right when the terms begin.

If those PM nations come out and choose to counter attack, I don't see the problem. Of course, they would take more damage but that's up to them.

[Iceknave]

Lol 5 years? That's almost as amusing as the guy in your other surrender thread claiming NPO won't come out because the PM nations don't want to get nuked 3 times a day =P

I think I prefer talking to your other comrade, Big Z, rather than you. At least, Big Z was polite and respectful when talking to enemies.

5 years is the upper limit according to my calculations and assumes the following conditions are true: 3k tech damages, 50% efficiency. If either the tech damages or the efficiency changes, then the time at which the reps will be completed changes. You take the most extreme case and believe it to be the only case. The more moderate time scales are more likely to occur and even then, it is so harsh that a longer war is preferable to accepting the terms.

You are not reading the entire post and as such miss significant little nuances that have a great impact on the actual time of which the tech reps can be paid. Instead, you jump straight to the big shiny button that says reply and present an opinion that seems hilarious at first, but ultimately meaningless.

Please read my post more carefully and understand where the numbers are coming from before pushing the button and reply with a scathing reply that provides little for anybody to consider.

[Waterana]

This whole discussion is a waste of time, not to mention a rehash of the 50 threads already open on the subject. Karma offered terms designed to be rejected. You lot already knew we wouldn't give you our banks, as was made plain when we also said no thanks to that pre terms rubbish.

Personally, I don't listen to or believe any Karma leaders anymore. The members of the alliances against us are a lot more willing to call a spade a spade without worrying about PR or what their fellow Karma alliances will think of them, and aren't shy in saying exactly what is in store for us. The leaders want the same thing but are just being extra sneaky about it, hence these terms. Yes we can afford the reps, but not with dead banks and restrictions on who can pay them.

I do believe very strongly Karma want NPO disbanded and gone with as many of our members leaving the game as possible. Why? Simple, fear. Pure irrational, paranoid, idiotic, fear. Made this picture a few days ago, it illustrates Karma, and the 'can't let them survive, they'll rebuild and kill us' attitude, and why is so stupid, to a T.

[Midkn1ght]

Stop whining.

Change your terms and you can get your tech farms for 6 months.

Or don't, see if I care.

/facepalm James your posts make less and less sense every time you post man, but that's classic NPO. Be presented with the truth about how much just your PM nations are sitting are, proving YOUR crying over them being broke after war is bs propaganda, and you say I'm crying. Jesus christ do you folks live in opposite world or something? O.o Z they're all yours, trying to reason with this lot is totally.. well have fun.

Iceknave: no u. =) I'm not polite when it comes to dealing with liars. Your alliance is not crippled, the instant you lot get peace you can rebuild, and lets be honest, the reps aren't going to slow you down more then a few months, not years. It's stupid spin, and you all know it. It takes hardly any money to be able to rebuild a nation nowadays into banking range, and you damned sure have enough nations with over 150 million sitting in peace and war, that can sit there for an hour and type in 10 over and over at the infra screen and rebuild right back to 5K infra. But hey, god forbid you guys hear the truth, so good night.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Midkn1ght

[Iceknave]

Iceknave: no u. =) I'm not polite when it comes to dealing with liars. Your alliance is not crippled, the instant you lot get peace you can rebuild, and lets be honest, the reps aren't going to slow you down more then a few months, not years. It's stupid spin, and you all know it. It takes hardly any money to be able to rebuild a nation nowadays into banking range, and you damned sure have enough nations with over 150 million sitting in peace and war, that can sit there for an hour and type in 10 over and over at the infra screen and rebuild right back to 5K infra. But hey, god forbid you guys hear the truth, so good night.

Again, you commit the same mistake you've committed before despite what I've already said.

The main reason why the time duration is so long is because the terms are very specific on who can and can not pay tech reps. My analysis looks at just the tech reps of the equation subject to the specific constraints that were presented to the Body Republic of NPO, examining specific variables that would appear to have great influence over the time and as stated in the Imperial Decree.

Big Z and I disagree on these constraints. This is most likely due to a communication issue somewhere down the chain. Where exactly is unknown.

Without these constraints of who can and can not pay tech reps, it significantly alters the time needed to pay tech reps. Without the restraints, the estimates that suggest 6 months for paying off the reps and moving on to full scale rebuilding is significantly more likely.

Building a nation back into banking range is a different issue from paying tech reps. Although both use aid slots, tech reps requires a nation to either have the tech on hand (large nation with tech on hand), ability to buy tech (large nation with no tech on hand, but cash to buy tech), or ability to get someone else to pay for the tech (small nation without cash or tech, but can send tech out if someone provides them with the funds to acquire tech), while building a nation back into banking range requires cash.

The terms that NPO has received states that only nations above 1k tech AFTER 2 weeks of war can pay the tech reps, while the terms that Big Z claims to be the terms imposed by Karma states that anybody above 1k tech at the signing of terms can pay tech reps. These are two very different groups of nations.

I implore you to more carefully read my posts and think about what I'm saying before responding.

In addition, there is absolutely no reason to treat any individual from an alliance without respect and good will. Just because you believe that an alliance is supposedly full of one type of people does not mean that every member in that alliance fits the mold you have imposed due to your shortsightedness and unwillingness to accept differences in people.

Edit: Clarifications.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Iceknave

[Azaghul]

Again, you commit the same mistake you've committed before despite what I've already said.

The main reason why the time duration is so long is because the terms are very specific on who can and can not pay tech reps. My analysis looks at just the tech reps of the equation subject to the specific constraints that were presented to the Body Republic of NPO, examining specific variables that would appear to have great influence over the time and as stated in the Imperial Decree.

Big Z and I disagree on these constraints. This is most likely due to a communication issue somewhere down the chain. Where exactly is unknown.

Without these constraints of who can and can not pay tech reps, it significantly alters the time needed to pay tech reps. Without the restraints, the estimates that suggest 6 months for paying off the reps and moving on to full scale rebuilding is significantly more likely.

Building a nation back into banking range is a different issue from paying tech reps. Although both use aid slots, tech reps requires a nation to either have the tech on hand (large nation with tech on hand), ability to buy tech (large nation with no tech on hand, but cash to buy tech), or ability to get someone else to pay for the tech (small nation without cash or tech, but can send tech out if someone provides them with the funds to acquire tech), while building a nation back into banking range requires cash.

The terms that NPO has received states that only nations above 1k tech AFTER 2 weeks of war can pay the tech reps, while the terms that Big Z claims to be the terms imposed by Karma states that anybody above 1k tech at the signing of terms can pay tech reps. These are two very different groups of nations.

I implore you to more carefully read my posts and think about what I'm saying before responding.

In addition, there is absolutely no reason to treat any individual from an alliance without respect and good will. Just because you believe that an alliance is supposedly full of one type of people does not mean that every member in that alliance fits the mold you have imposed due to your shortsightedness and unwillingness to accept differences in people.

Edit: Clarifications.

It's been clearly stated that the terms offered to NPO put the 1000 tech requirement before the two weeks of war.

I'd be curios what your numbers are, these terms can be paid in 6 months even with generous allowances for inefficiency and failure of some to participate.

[Iceknave]

It's been clearly stated that the terms offered to NPO put the 1000 tech requirement before the two weeks of war.

I'd be curios what your numbers are, these terms can be paid in 6 months even with generous allowances for inefficiency and failure of some to participate.

Your view point is the same as Big Z's. As such, my numbers do not matter because your analysis assumes the constraints are not applicable and are not part of the terms. However, the terms that have been presented to NPO and to the NPO Body Republic has such constraints imposed.

The terms offered to NPO do NOT put the 1k tech requirement before the 2 weeks of war. The terms offered to NPO put the 1k tech requirement AFTER the 2 weeks of war. I've had this verified earlier today with an Imperial Officer of NPO. I do not know of anybody else in NPO with more legitimacy on NPO's side to speak as to what the terms are.

This is the source of contention between me and Big Z. Without the constraints, 6 months is significantly more likely. With the constraints, 6 months is impossible let alone paying the minimum amount needed per month.

Edit: Addition to last "paragraph".

Edited July 3, 2009 by Iceknave

[Midkn1ght]

The terms that NPO has received states that only nations above 1k tech AFTER 2 weeks of war can pay the tech reps, while the terms that Big Z claims to be the terms imposed by Karma states that anybody above 1k tech at the signing of terms can pay tech reps. These are two very different groups of nations.

As Z said the initial terms presented were worded poorly, clarified for your leaders, and presented was

II. Reparations of 300,000 tech and $7,000,000,000 will be assessed upon the New Pacific Order. All reparations of the 300,000 technology must be paid by nations with greater than or equal to 1000.00 technology upon the signing of these terms. The $7,000,000,000 is freely convertible to technology at a rate of 100 technology per 3 million. In addition, technology that is converted from money may be sent by any nation.

If you're being told the terms are anything else, you're being lied to. Wouldn't be the first time. You're being fed propaganda by your own people man, plain and simple. The terms Z quoted are the same every single alliance fighting you guys signed off on to be presented as the final binding draft. You're being told the truth, and you're dismissing it as a difference of opinion instead of fact. We're not out to destroy your alliance, no matter how hard your leaders are trying to sell that to you.

In addition, there is absolutely no reason to treat any individual from an alliance without respect and good will.

Funny, NPO didn't feel this way with any alliance they've ever dealt with in wartime.

Edit: but hell don't take our word for it, go ASK the various leaders of the alliance on your buddies.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Midkn1ght

[Llednar Twem]

Funny, NPO didn't feel this way with any alliance they've ever dealt with in wartime.

You must be assuming that all of us share that view.

I am not going to say that there are no people in the Order that may disrespect people from other alliances sometimes; there are. All alliances will have people who do that from time to time; it is a part of being human.

However, I will gladly talk to, listen to, and show respect to anyone, regardless of alliance affiliation. There are also other people in the NPO who will do this as well.

With that said, people may react with disrespect to anyone that they feel is not showing them the respect that everyone deserves. This is a two-way street, and both sides have to commit to it.

[ColchestersKing]

OK,

In all honesty im feeling the point of my OP and initial discussions with Vladimir have been lost.......

This is NOT about whether NPO can pay reps as we all know they CAN what this is about is do we force them to pay them in a fashion that leaves them at complete and utter risk of distruction.....i think that is the sticking point,

so please instead of bashing lets have a resonable discussion about ideas that would make this WORK

i.e a staggared reps timetable

my initial proposal is as follows

the NPO has Forty days from signing of the treaty to STORE rebuilding aid with a neutral alliance such as the New Polar Order who while not allied with NPO did not take Offensive action against them

at this point the NPO nations in peace mode would come out and send as much aid as there slots will allow in forty days NO KARMA NATION WILL ATTACK AND KARMA WILL PROTECT DURING THIS PERIOD

after forty days The peace mode nations as sighted by the initial treaty will enter 14 days of war following this period Another Forty days will commence in which the NPO may get the aid back and use it ONLY on economic improvments and rebuilding BANKING NATIONS ONLY WHICH ARE TO BE IDENTIFIED IN THE TREATY

then forty days of rep paying begins following this cycle the NPO may have 30 days rebuild time to a maximum as specified by both sides and then 40 days reps paying.......this cycle will repeat untill reps are payed

any imput would be welcome but keep it clean gentlemen.........magnamimus in victory as they say

[von Metternich]

However, if you are saying that Karma is ready to reopen negotiations and reconsider its 'no compromise' hard-line position, I will inform the Emperor immediately so that we may begin.

Why doesn't NPO go to Karma and open the negotiations themselves? Why wait for Karma to do something which they do not want to do?

[Waterana]

The alliances fighting us don't want us to rebuild, they want us disbanded and dead because they're petrified we're going to wave some magic wand and make our isolated politically bankrupt alliance capable of wiping them all out on our own at some point in the future. As I said in my last post, their only motivation is fear.

Why do you think they want to kill our bank nations so badly? Easy, to remove our remaining strength and make it impossible for us to pay the reps in the allowed time and under the tight restrictions, let alone rebuild. The terms were meant to be rejected so the war can continue. I very much doubt Karma will ever even consider any plan that lets us live in peace. It just won't happen.

I appreciate you're trying to find a solution, but hammering yourself on the Karma brick wall won't change their minds on this.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Waterana

[von Metternich]

Why do you think they want to kill our bank nations so badly? Easy, to remove our remaining strength and make it impossible for us to pay the reps in the allowed time and under the tight restrictions, let alone rebuild.

But didn't NPO tell their peace mode nations to come out of peace mode? If so, then Karma isn't necessarily trying to hammer your banks. This implies they're here for the war and those peace nations are disobeying orders.

[Waterana]

The banks have not been ordered out of peace mode. A small number of nations that should be fighting, but aren't, have been ordered out. Bilrow broke down the numbers in another thread, but I couldn't be bothered looking for it. Doubt you'd believe me anyway.

[von Metternich]

At the moment, I don't believe any sides of the story. I just war because those are my orders

[ColchestersKing]

The alliances fighting us don't want us to rebuild, they want us disbanded and dead because they're petrified we're going to wave some magic wand and make our isolated politically bankrupt alliance capable of wiping them all out on our own at some point in the future. As I said in my last post, their only motivation is fear.

Why do you think they want to kill our bank nations so badly? Easy, to remove our remaining strength and make it impossible for us to pay the reps in the allowed time and under the tight restrictions, let alone rebuild. The terms were meant to be rejected so the war can continue. I very much doubt Karma will ever even consider any plan that lets us live in peace. It just won't happen.

I appreciate you're trying to find a solution, but hammering yourself on the Karma brick wall won't change their minds on this.

Im not trying to change any minds waterana.........i mearly offer different solutions and if someone takes one up then brilliant......but i dont expect the solution to be found in this post mearly a discusion that puts us on the right road......i have no lost love for Pacifica but at the same time i dont want to see an alliance destroyed because men and women could not converse and discuss and come to a plan.........if those at the head of the table cannot agree then perhaps it is for us enlightened folk to solve bobs problems

[Waterana]

Well, I wish you the best of luck on that, but don't like your chances .

[CyberMaster]

NPO should admit defeat and accept the terms.......

kthxbai

[Azhrarn]

OK,

In all honesty im feeling the point of my OP and initial discussions with Vladimir have been lost.......

This is NOT about whether NPO can pay reps as we all know they CAN what this is about is do we force them to pay them in a fashion that leaves them at complete and utter risk of distruction.....i think that is the sticking point,

so please instead of bashing lets have a resonable discussion about ideas that would make this WORK

i.e a staggared reps timetable

To put this as politely as I can, Hell and No.

It's called “losing a war,” that is the sticking point. The underlying problem with these so-called negotiations is that the NPO still hasn’t admitted defeat. The majority of their high-strength nations have remained in peace mode for a majority of the war - engaged in siege warfare. Now supposedly the NPO has admitted defeat militarily, but let me ask you this: When you look at the propaganda effort that it’s carrying out, does the NPO seem like an alliance that has admitted defeat? No, of course not. They may not be fighting militarily (except at very low strength levels), but they are fighting politically. So all this talk about admitting defeat, like pretty much everything else they say, is pure BS.

So let’s stop trying to woo them to the negotiating table when they obviously still want to fight. When the NPO is finally serious about admitting defeat and pursuing peace, we’ll know it because they’ll have stopped trying to dictate surrender terms to the victors. Until then they can either continue to be ground down or remain in peace mode until Planet Bob explodes.

I have yet to see the NPO make one single valid argument against accepting peace terms. Not one. There's nothing special about the NPO, other than the unbelievable amount of whining of which they've proven capable. The sheer volume of hypocritical propaganda that they’ve spewed forth has been so overwhelming it could choke a whale.

Until now, the constant mantra we’ve heard from the NPO is that they’re superior in all things, in leadership, in government and organization, in diplomacy, war and economics, superior in all of these areas. But now, in response to the peace terms that Karma has offered, this same alliance is now arguing it’s overwhelming ineptness and utter incompetence, stating over and over again that it couldn’t possibly comply with the merciful and lenient terms which it’s been offered, when numerous other alliances have been able to comply with unbelievably unjust and harsher terms which the NPO has imposed upon them.

It’s members have lost all morale; they won’t leave peace mode and fight – even under orders; their members don’t have warchests; their members couldn’t possibly organize themselves sufficiently to pay tech reparations on schedule, and on, and on, and on.

It’s all quite tiresome, and completely unbelievable. The only thing more tiresome have been the illogical and unjustified allegations of hypocrisy against the various Karma alliances. Prior to this conflict, Karma as an organization simply did not exist. It’s a loose coalition of numerous alliances, and a multitude of nation rulers, all having different histories, beliefs and agendas - but united in the single belief that the NPO had simply gone too far and had to be stopped for the sake of all other alliances on Planet Bob. And having never existed before, and therefore never having taken concerted action before, Karma cannot therefore be accused of hypocrisy on the basis of the past words or actions of any one single Karma alliance or leader. To attempt to do so is both illogical and absurd. It is propaganda, and nothing more.

How many times has the NPO held the fate of demilitarized alliances in its hands, only to abuse that trust? There is no “peace term” harsher than forced disbandment, which is the fate that the NPO has brought to, how many, 9 different alliances in Planet Bob’s history? How many nation rulers has the NPO forced from Planet Bob? How many nation rulers has it sentenced to EZI or PZI?

The terms that have been offered to the NPO are merciful, and far, far better than they deserve. These merciful terms have been characterized by Vladimir as "ludicrous and impossible" when in fact they are actually less severe than the terms that the NPO itself has imposed upon many other alliances. To give just one example, the most glaring example that leaps to my eyes, the NPO is not being asked to decommission all military wonders and improvements. In my opinion this is a huge mistake, and I would wish that every nation ruler in every Karma alliance would petition their leaders to correct this if and when final terms are ever given to the NPO. To do otherwise is an insult to every alliance that has ever been destroyed by the NPO, and an insult to every nation ruler that has ever been driven from Planet Bob altogether.

The reparations that have been requested in terms of cash and tech are reasonable given the size of the NPO, especially when viewed as percentages of alliance strength and not simply as total values. These terms clearly are not meant to destroy the NPO, merely weaken it, and prevent it from immediately becoming another threat to world peace.

Over and over again we have been told how special the NPO is, how wonderful their community is. Be glad then, that you are being offered the opportunity to focus upon your community, free from the burden to rule over all of Planet Bob, free from the need to constantly plot the destruction of, and wage war against, other alliances and other communities.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Azhrarn

[von Metternich]

Too long. did not read. got a summary?

[Cataduanes]

To put this as politely as I can, Hell and No.

It's called “losing a war,” that is the sticking point. The underlying problem with these so-called negotiations is that the NPO still hasn’t admitted defeat. The majority of their high-strength nations have remained in peace mode for a majority of the war - engaged in siege warfare. Now supposedly the NPO has admitted defeat, but let me ask you this: When you look at the propaganda effort that it’s carrying out, does the NPO seem like an alliance that has admitted defeat? No, of course not. They may not be fighting militarily (except at very low strength levels), but they are fighting politically. So all this talk about admitting defeat, like pretty much everything else they say, is pure BS.

So let’s stop trying to woo them to the negotiating table when they obviously still want to fight. When the NPO is finally serious about admitting defeat and pursuing peace, we’ll know it because they’ll have stopped trying to dictate surrender terms to the victors. Until then they can either continue to be ground down or remain in peace mode until Planet Bob explodes.

I have yet to see the NPO make one single valid argument against accepting peace terms. Not one. There's nothing special about the NPO, other than the unbelievable amount of whining of which they've proven capable. The sheer volume of hypocritical propaganda that they’ve spewed forth has been so overwhelming it could choke a whale.

Until now, the constant mantra we’ve heard from the NPO is that they’re superior in all things, in leadership, in government and organization, in diplomacy, war and economics, superior in all of these areas. But now, in response to the peace terms that Karma has offered, this same alliance is now arguing it’s overwhelming ineptness and utter incompetence, stating over and over again that it couldn’t possibly comply with the merciful and lenient terms which it’s been offered, when numerous other alliances have been able to comply with unbelievably unjust and harsher terms which the NPO has imposed upon them.

It’s members have lost all morale; they won’t leave peace mode and fight – even under orders; their members don’t have warchests; their members couldn’t possible organize themselves sufficiently to pay tech reparations on schedule, and on, and on, and on.

It’s all quite tiresome, and completely unbelievable. The only thing more tiresome have been the illogical and unjustified allegations of hypocrisy against the various Karma alliances. Prior to this conflict, Karma as an organization simply did not exist. It’s a loose coalition of numerous alliances, and a multitude of nation rulers, all having different histories, beliefs and agendas, but united in the single belief that the NPO had simply gone too far and had to be stopped for the sake of all other alliances on Planet Bob. And having never existed before, and therefore never having taken concerted action before, Karma cannot therefore be accused of hypocrisy on the basis of the past words or actions of any one single Karma alliance or leader. To attempt to do so is both illogical and absurd. It is propaganda, and nothing more.

How many times has the NPO held the fate of demilitarized alliances in its hands, only to abuse that trust? There is no “peace term” harsher than forced disbandment, which is the fate that the NPO has brought to, how many, 9 different alliances in Planet Bob’s history? How many nation rulers has the NPO forced from Planet Bob? How many nation rulers has it sentenced to EZI or PZI?

The terms that have been offered to the NPO are merciful, and far, far better than they deserve. These merciful terms have been characterized by Vladimir as "ludicrous and impossible" when in fact they are actually less severe than the terms that the NPO itself has imposed upon many other alliances. To give just one example, the most glaring example that leaps to my eyes, the NPO is not being asked to decommission all military wonders and improvements. In my opinion this is a huge mistake, and I would wish that every nation ruler in every Karma alliance would petition their leaders to correct this if and when final terms are ever given to the NPO. To do otherwise is an insult to every alliance that has ever been destroyed by the NPO, and an insult to every alliance ruler that has ever been driven from Planet Bob altogether.

The reparations that have been requested in terms of cash and tech are reasonable given the size of the NPO alliance, especially when viewed as percentages of alliance strength and not simply as total values. These terms clearly are not meant to destroy the NPO, merely weaken it, and prevent it from immediately becoming another threat to world peace.

Over and over again we have been told how special the NPO is, how wonderful their community is. Be glad then, that you are being offered the opportunity to focus upon your community, free from the burden to rule over all of Planet Bob, free from the need to constantly plot the destruction of, and wage war against, other alliances and other communities.

Azhrarn's post sums up my take on this subject very well B), perhaps when the Order tires of trying to wriggle out of the conflict on its own terms then maybe its loyal members will see peace. Well done Azhrarn on hitting many nails on the head (in my eyes anyhow).

Too long. did not read. got a summary?

lol, i don't think you could get a summary...try reading anyhow as it is really a good post

Edited July 3, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Azhrarn]

Too long. did not read. got a summary?

Thanks for reminding me.

tl;dr

Dear NPO,

You have the right to STFU!

You have the right to accept whatever terms are offered to you.

You may have the right to live - if you don't annoy us too much. We'll have to get back to you on that one.

kthxbai

Edited July 3, 2009 by Azhrarn