Announcement From Slavorussia

[Justinian the Mighty]

"You know.. we're already hosting one peace conference. Might as well host two. Do you two wish us to act as third party arbiter on this project? Both of you have been friends and allies in the past, we wouldn't want to see either of you done wrong. If you look at is a project.. something that can cooperatively be done.. and not simply a matter of who has what land.. you'll be a lot more productive."

"If I were in your shoes I'd be looking into who would have the greatest cost efficiencies governing each of the miles of land and do some local opinion polls to see what the people want and then come out with a kind of an average between the two of how the land is actually divided."

- Anthony Davis

We wouldn't object to you hosting a peace conference, but there is one issue we are not going to budge on, that is the return of Slavorussian territories to us. We didn't have any trouble governing the region before the CSSR invaded us, and short of our bruised economy that's already recovering, we won't have a problem now.

The nationality of the vast majority of people living on the land are Slavorussian and we have no reason to believe they are any happier with the CSSR's than they were with the USSR.

[Voodoo Nova]

"You know.. we're already hosting one peace conference. Might as well host two. Do you two wish us to act as third party arbiter on this project? Both of you have been friends and allies in the past, we wouldn't want to see either of you done wrong. If you look at is a project.. something that can cooperatively be done.. and not simply a matter of who has what land.. you'll be a lot more productive."

"If I were in your shoes I'd be looking into who would have the greatest cost efficiencies governing each of the miles of land and do some local opinion polls to see what the people want and then come out with a kind of an average between the two of how the land is actually divided."

- Anthony Davis

"Stay out of Europe, we have many nations and calm minds here on our continent so your help is not needed.

Now, The Kingdom of Poland would not mind mediating these discussions if both parties see it fit for us to do so."

[Justinian the Mighty]

We'll let the CSSR choose where they feel comfortable having a meeting.

[Uberstein]

The Republic of Mariehamm supports Slavorussia.

"The CSSR is the last state of the GNR remaining that still owns lands that do not belong to them. The return of all Slavorussian lands is in the best interest of Europe." -Baron Uberstein.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"Stay out of Europe, we have many nations and calm minds here on our continent so your help is not needed.

Now, The Kingdom of Poland would not mind mediating these discussions if both parties see it fit for us to do so."

"No need to get testy, we're only offering our support in conflict resolution. If a European setting does as well, we have no qualms about it being handled there so long as it is handled with as little force as possible. We have been friendly with both of these states in the past, there's no reason we shouldn't try to be now. But you're more than welcome to host this if you want to foot the bill and handle the arbitration. There has been no implication that Europe can't handle its own problems now. For the record we are somewhat inclined to agree with Uberstein that the historical land record does need fixed to some extent." - Anthony Davis

Edited July 4, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Triyun]

Private Message to the DE and Slavorussian Empire: I believe a digital conference under secure lines with the DE allowed to monitor the closed feeds would work best To make a blanket statement that all people in that area are happier under the Slavo-russians is a ridiculous statement. The larger economy of the CSSR and our investments in the region as well as the transferrence of populations with some moving east and some moving west during the CSSR administration of the area simply makes this assertion a unscientific at best, conciously dishonest at worst. Propose a division of the territories in the East currently held, in which a 6 month window be given where populations can move back and forth. We would like to remind people that the Russo-Crimean Soviet Socialist Republic is not a foreign state, and is a nationalist movement of the same ethnic groups which make up the Slavorussian Empire. The difference is we represent an leftist political ideology rather than a rightist one. Let the people decide which they prefer rather than making absolutist claims.

[Justinian the Mighty]

So you’ve made more investments in the last few months than the Slavorussian Empire has made in the past 500 years? I find that extremely unlikely. While the region may be of great political importance to you, symbolizing your victory over the “Capitalist and imperialist pigs” it is a much greater cultural importance to us. It’s was a very important trading region and the heart of much of Slavorussia’s folk traditions.

I would like to remind you that we are not a country with rightwing policies. The governing body of Slavorussia is a center left, democratic version of your own, with a deep tradition and faith in the monarchy and Christian values. Our economy was a fair rival to your own. Although we do realize our economy is not what it was before the war, it is very resilient. Today it’s weak, but with each passing day it gets stronger and stronger. The people have a wide range of social and economic mobility, our unemployment rate is relatively low, our economic policies are directed toward the poor and downtrodden to provide them homes, clothes, food and the other basic human needs.

Having said that, if I may draw on historical fact for a moment here you invaded us under a false pretext. In the end the reason for war was blatant imperialism, made worse by a veil of deceit and lies. It is only proper and just that you return the pillages of your unjust war, and make amends for your past. Failure to do so will result in a breach of your surrender terms, at which time the Slavorussian government and the Coalition has a number of options to pursue.

We are prepared, if our request is honored by the CSSR, to engage in a variety of economic deals between our two countries and throughout Europe and the world. However If our request is not honored, who knows what the future might hold.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"I would like to see proposed maps of pre and post alteration claims from each state as to how they feel the borders would be most effectively drawn. I would also, if possible, like to see a historic map of the Slavorussian border prior to the GNR war. This would give me a better understanding of the historic record of the claim. We will be cross referencing these maps with other global databases so please ensure the maps are valid and that your claims on the suggested maps are as accurate as possible." Davis would request.

[Justinian the Mighty]

"I would like to see proposed maps of pre and post alteration claims from each state as to how they feel the borders would be most effectively drawn. I would also, if possible, like to see a historic map of the Slavorussian border prior to the GNR war. This would give me a better understanding of the historic record of the claim. We will be cross referencing these maps with other global databases so please ensure the maps are valid and that your claims on the suggested maps are as accurate as possible." Davis would request.

The... richer blue is what the CSSR annexed from us. All we're asking is for them to return our territory.

This is a very old map of Slavorussia, but our borders did not change between the publishing of this map and the invasion.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"Well done. Can I get a current map now and a map of what you feel would be a fair division of the lands from your delegation? Oh wait, that's the first map you've shown us correct?"

Edited July 5, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Justinian the Mighty]

"Well done. Can I get a current map now and a map of what you feel would be a fair division of the lands from your delegation? Oh wait, that's the first map you've shown us correct?"

Yes, the first map shows the current border.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"After reviewing the world map.. I must say, that is a very large territorial dispute. Let me review the arguments made thus far."

"Slavorussia's claim to the land is based on years of cultural and historic development and being the original sovereign of the land. They have put many years worth of work into its development."

"CSSR's claim to the land is based on recent investment of infrastructure, which given modern technology can be done more rapidly, cost less per implementation, and can be done more rapidly.. modernization takes less time when the technology is known. CSSR also claims Salvorussian heritage and to be an offshoot of the Slavorussian line with a different political approach."

"I have a kind of novel proposal here that may tie you both together. Joint control. A committee is appointed over the domain with equal representation from your governments. They will collectively determine the laws and taxes to be paid by the region and the returns will be shared. In order to determine who receives the most power over the administrative zone, elections will be held for an additional 5 seats that will determine which of you have the most influence over the joint occupancy region. You share costs of administration, defense, and resources. I realize you both hold to different economic models, so the internal workings of this region would be a hybrid state. Free market is permissible but government services also would be provided."

"This would advert the need for a conflict, bring your two nations closer together culturally as your citizens should be, and allow for an even division of the resources based on your claims which both have merit. What are your thoughts on this idea. Do you think the two of you could make such work?"

Edited July 5, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Justinian the Mighty]

Nothing short of completely returning our territory will suffice. This is not so much a negotiation of how to divide the land, but what should be done with the CSSR’s assets on the land once it’s returned. They've already surrendered and must abide by the surrender terms.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"Would you allow them to continue to operate CSSR assets within your territory? If so then that reduces some of the damage to their investments, perhaps you can even give them a compensation package based on their budget allotments for the region during their reign?"

[Justinian the Mighty]

"Would you allow them to continue to operate CSSR assets within your territory? If so then that reduces some of the damage to their investments, perhaps you can even give them a compensation package based on their budget allotments for the region during their reign?"

We're willing to take steps in that direction in the interest of mutual co-operation between our countries.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"Well that's good at least. Now we just need to know what CSSR thinks of all this."

[Triyun]

We will not accept outright threats. We recognize that the actions undertaken by former Reichkanzler was excessive, however, we view this as simple opportunism. We like the proposal by the Dragon Empire and are willing to explore that further.

[Uberstein]

We will not accept outright threats. We recognize that the actions undertaken by former Reichkanzler was excessive, however, we view this as simple opportunism. We like the proposal by the Dragon Empire and are willing to explore that further.

You own land that does not belong to you. You claim to be against Imperialism, yet own land that was never yours and does not belong to you. You claim that a few months of infrastructure is worth MORE than hundreds of years of history. You forget that you have surrendered unconditionally, you have no say.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"It appears Slavorussia wishes to have the land for themselves, but to allow CSSR to retain its assets invested there. However, CSSR is interested in sharing sovereignty over the domain. These items are not capable of working together simultaneously. So lets go to the next plan. Division. An alternative idea is looking at the value of invested assets and looking at the land markets in the area and giving CSSR a portion of the territory based on the amount of assets the surrender under Slavorussian reclamation. So, for example, if that were valued at 1 million dollars in value, then CSSR would retain 1 million dollars in market value in land. These market values would be based on real estate estimates from 3 unrelated nations and not national estimates, but commercial estimates. I know the value invested by CSSR into the region is likely far greater, but this is an example. What do the two parties think of this possible solution? It would allow for a final draw of boundaries while respecting the investment of both parties into the region and give clear, blue sky, sovereignty to both owners."

[Justinian the Mighty]

We will not accept outright threats. We recognize that the actions undertaken by former Reichkanzler was excessive, however, we view this as simple opportunism. We like the proposal by the Dragon Empire and are willing to explore that further.

If you're refering to the second proposal then I believe we're both in agreement. We won't comment on your remarks about us being opportunistic, when your own actions speak for themselvs. However, don't blame the Reichkanzler for what you did before the creation of the Second Nordland Reich. Your actions are your own.

[Uberstein]

"It appears Slavorussia wishes to have the land for themselves, but to allow CSSR to retain its assets invested there. However, CSSR is interested in sharing sovereignty over the domain. These items are not capable of working together simultaneously. So lets go to the next plan. Division. An alternative idea is looking at the value of invested assets and looking at the land markets in the area and giving CSSR a portion of the territory based on the amount of assets the surrender under Slavorussian reclamation. So, for example, if that were valued at 1 million dollars in value, then CSSR would retain 1 million dollars in market value in land. These market values would be based on real estate estimates from 3 unrelated nations and not national estimates, but commercial estimates. I know the value invested by CSSR into the region is likely far greater, but this is an example. What do the two parties think of this possible solution? It would allow for a final draw of boundaries while respecting the investment of both parties into the region and give clear, blue sky, sovereignty to both owners."

"You are enabling imperalist actions by the Nords. There is NO evidence that the CSSR has invested more in that area than Slavorussia, which has owned it for much longer."

OOC: Where is Triyun's RP of building there?

[Justinian the Mighty]

"It appears Slavorussia wishes to have the land for themselves, but to allow CSSR to retain its assets invested there. However, CSSR is interested in sharing sovereignty over the domain. These items are not capable of working together simultaneously. So lets go to the next plan. Division. An alternative idea is looking at the value of invested assets and looking at the land markets in the area and giving CSSR a portion of the territory based on the amount of assets the surrender under Slavorussian reclamation. So, for example, if that were valued at 1 million dollars in value, then CSSR would retain 1 million dollars in market value in land. These market values would be based on real estate estimates from 3 unrelated nations and not national estimates, but commercial estimates. I know the value invested by CSSR into the region is likely far greater, but this is an example. What do the two parties think of this possible solution? It would allow for a final draw of boundaries while respecting the investment of both parties into the region and give clear, blue sky, sovereignty to both owners."

If you've suggested, again, dividing the land or in anyway allowing the CSSR to continue to occupy Slavorussia we have to decline.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"We have asked the CSSR to site evidence of its investments there. We can't honestly believe they've owned the land and not worked it any. I understand Mariehamms interest and we also didn't like the participation of the CSSR in the GNR conflict, but we're attempting to be as fair as possible to make this a lasting and reasonable peace."

[Maelstrom Vortex]

If you've suggested, again, dividing the land or in anyway allowing the CSSR to continue to occupy Slavorussia we have to decline.

"Then that would lead us to option C. Slavorussia would compensate CSSR for the full price of any investment and Slavorussia would obtain the land in entirety based on historic pre-gnr war boundaries."

Edited July 6, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Uberstein]

"We have asked the CSSR to site evidence of its investments there. We can't honestly believe they've owned the land and not worked it any. I understand Mariehamms interest and we also didn't like the participation of the CSSR in the GNR conflict, but we're attempting to be as fair as possible to make this a lasting and reasonable peace."

"Fair? Fair would be returning the land to it's rightful owner, not the invader. You're attempting to create a compromise, which is not what this situation needs."