A New Age has Dawned

[Sande]

Nukes are not toys - that is a very irresponsible opinion. They are dangerous weapons, and they should be barred from existence and use.

I'd also appreciate it if you took back what you said about long-term trauma; numerous citizens of Hannah Montana 2 are currently being hospitalized for radiation poisoning brought on by the nuclear attacks against it just a few days ago. It's too early for you to be making such cruel and insensitive statements about what they've endured, and what they're enduring.

Again, WTF?!

I am talking about THE GAME here. Not RL. In this game, the nukes are so scary only because they are named "Nuclear weapons".

I am not taking that back.

You are still mixing RL with CN. This is not right.

Yes, nukes are bad in RL and I don't support anyone using them in RL and I know what radiation can do to your body in RL. Chernobyl has $%&@ed up a lot of people too. BUT this is a completely different topic. We are playing CN not RL here.

[Dr Jekyll]

This isn't just a game. It's an online political nation simulator.

[Heft]

Again, WTF?!

I am talking about THE GAME here. Not RL. In this game, the nukes are so scary only because they are named "Nuclear weapons".

I am not taking that back.

You are still mixing RL with CN. This is not right.

Yes, nukes are bad in RL and I don't support anyone using them in RL and I know what radiation can do to your body in RL. Chernobyl has $%&@ed up a lot of people too. BUT this is a completely different topic. We are playing CN not RL here.

There are still people behind the computers, and you don't know what kind of personal connections they may have to RL nukes. Maybe their grandfather was at Hiroshima? It is morally irresponsible to just assume that everyone has the same sensibilities as you do. Not everyone can launch a button and callously ignore the images or lingering traumas that that button represents, and to brush away their objections with cries of "It's just a game!" is the height of arrogance.

I suppose, though, that you wouldn't understand this, seeing as how you apparently lack any empathy for other human beings.

[Sande]

If you want to look it that way...

Morally, there should be no war in CN. It is all morally wrong. Also, I'm sure there are more people who have suffered from ground attacks rather than the 2 nukes launched 50 years ago. The admin has to remove the events that have something to do with starving people because most of africa is starving at the moment and anyone who feels sorry for them are being caused massive emotional pain if their pixels suffer from draught.

If you launch a ground attack in CN, you kill your grandfather who fought in WWII.

If you launch a CM or Aircraft attack in CN, you are doing what the israeli and pakistani soldiers are doing every month in RL.

If you launch a spy attack, you cause the other country to fall into economic depression, causing many people to lose their jobs, live in dumpsters and eventually jump off a cliff in RL.

If you launch a nuke in CN, you get nuked back in RL.

This is how stupid that sounds.

Also, if we'd name the nuke "The Death Star Attack", would everyone use it because no-one has any real-life trauma out of it? Or they wouldn't because Death star blew up an imaginary planet in a galaxy far far away, long time ago? And we have to feel sorry for the imaginary lands too?

This IS a game. People play it with nukes. If you don't like it, you have to deal with it. It's all pixels. You can name the pixels any way you want. If you want to look at in-game nukes like they are big scary things, you will just cause pain to yourself. If you just look at them like abstract infra-decreasers, you are playing the game.

[JCFalkenberg]

There are still people behind the computers, and you don't know what kind of personal connections they may have to RL nukes. Maybe their grandfather was at Hiroshima? It is morally irresponsible to just assume that everyone has the same sensibilities as you do. Not everyone can launch a button and callously ignore the images or lingering traumas that that button represents, and to brush away their objections with cries of "It's just a game!" is the height of arrogance.

I suppose, though, that you wouldn't understand this, seeing as how you apparently lack any empathy for other human beings.

honestly if it bothered this hypothetical person that much, why would they play? different games for different demographics - I ain't sayin this needs to be the hellmoo of browser nation sims, but I otoh lets not sugarcoat the war system any more than it already is, and if someone wants no war at all, well there is the other nation simulator that shall not be named...

[Kryievla]

The top 5% may not be 'entrenched', but a new player has very little chance of making it there, if at all. That is one of the coolest things about Manhattan Projects: they give *all* players a shot at getting nukes eventually, if they care to make the investment.

More MPs than SDIs eh? How funny

[enderland]

I am morbidly amused that one of the google ads for this thread is -

Middle East In Prophecy

What is the future of the Middle East & Israel?

Find out now free.

[Glen MoP]

There are still people behind the computers, and you don't know what kind of personal connections they may have to RL nukes. Maybe their grandfather was at Hiroshima? It is morally irresponsible to just assume that everyone has the same sensibilities as you do. Not everyone can launch a button and callously ignore the images or lingering traumas that that button represents, and to brush away their objections with cries of "It's just a game!" is the height of arrogance.

I suppose, though, that you wouldn't understand this, seeing as how you apparently lack any empathy for other human beings.

There are still people behind the computers, and you don't know what kind of personal connections they may have to RL soldiers. Maybe their grandfather was in a war? It is morally irresponsible to just assume that everyone has the same sensibilities as you do. Not everyone can click a button and callously ignore the images or lingering traumas that that button represents, and to brush away their objections with cries of "It's just a game!" is the height of arrogance.

I suppose, though, that you wouldn't understand this, seeing as how you apparently lack any empathy for other human beings.

Clearly, we must remove soldiers from the game.

[CptGodzilla]

Again, WTF?!

I am talking about THE GAME here. Not RL. In this game, the nukes are so scary only because they are named "Nuclear weapons".

I am not taking that back.

You are still mixing RL with CN. This is not right.

Yes, nukes are bad in RL and I don't support anyone using them in RL and I know what radiation can do to your body in RL. Chernobyl has $%&@ed up a lot of people too. BUT this is a completely different topic. We are playing CN not RL here.

dude.... you know that was talking about his nation, right?

[Dr. Dan]

I see two rough solutions to the warchest problem.

1) Remove the hard cap on money taken/destroyed in wars. Tie it to a percentage of total money on hand, and have that percentage increase as the total money on hand increases (i.e, 50% for anything over a billion, 5% for anything under a million).

2) Institute penalties for having stale cash (i.e, larger bills the larger your warchest).

More content sounds better to me.  Give me a wonder that lets me attack 25% of my NS value .

(But seriously, I am vehemently against these suggestions. We shouldn't be punished for just being "big". The only thing we have to look forward to now is a warchest, wtf else are we supposed to do if that's removed too? And stealing 500M (or ins omet cases, over 1 BILLION dollars in a hit is ridiculous. We still have nothing to buy. It's not fair to force us into making less money/day by having us purchase over 20k infra.)

Edited July 1, 2009 by Dr. Dan

[Blue Lightning]

If you want to look it that way...

Morally, there should be no war in CN. It is all morally wrong. Also, I'm sure there are more people who have suffered from ground attacks rather than the 2 nukes launched 50 years ago. The admin has to remove the events that have something to do with starving people because most of africa is starving at the moment and anyone who feels sorry for them are being caused massive emotional pain if their pixels suffer from draught.

If you launch a ground attack in CN, you kill your grandfather who fought in WWII.

If you launch a CM or Aircraft attack in CN, you are doing what the israeli and pakistani soldiers are doing every month in RL.

If you launch a spy attack, you cause the other country to fall into economic depression, causing many people to lose their jobs, live in dumpsters and eventually jump off a cliff in RL.

If you launch a nuke in CN, you get nuked back in RL.

I hadn't thought of it like that before, you are completely correct however. I thank you for your post as it clearly demonstrates the far reaching consequences of this "game".

There are still people behind the computers, and you don't know what kind of personal connections they may have to RL war. Maybe their grandfather was in a war? It is morally irresponsible to just assume that everyone has the same sensibilities as you do. Not everyone can declare a war and callously ignore the images or lingering traumas that that action represents, and to brush away their objections with cries of "It's just a game!" is the height of arrogance.

I suppose, though, that you wouldn't understand this, seeing as how you apparently lack any empathy for other human beings.

[Sande]

Empathy for other human beings...

May I again remind you that this is a game and nukes/soldiers/CMs are a part of the game.

If I want to win the game (or not lose to the other player) why shouldn't I use all the weapons I have? Or I should let the other person win just because I feel honourable letting him win? This would end in both players trying to do as less as possible so they would lose. And the loser (winner in losing) is the one who deals less damage to the other.

There are still people behind the computers, and you don't know what kind of personal connections they may have to losing a game in RL. Maybe they have always lost the game? It is morally irresponsible to just assume that everyone has the same sensibilities as you fo. Not everyone can play the game to win and callously ignore the images of pwnage at the end of the war/game, and brush away their objections with cries of "It's just a game! You got owned!" is the height of arrogance.

I suppose, though, that you wouldn't understand this, seeing as how you apparently lack any empathy for other losing players.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Sande

[Feanor Noldorin]

More content sounds better to me.  Give me a wonder that lets me attack 25% of my NS value .

(But seriously, I am vehemently against these suggestions. We shouldn't be punished for just being "big". The only thing we have to look forward to now is a warchest, wtf else are we supposed to do if that's removed too? And stealing 500M (or ins omet cases, over 1 BILLION dollars in a hit is ridiculous. We still have nothing to buy. It's not fair to force us into making less money/day by having us purchase over 20k infra.)

This.

Large nations should not be punished just so everyone else can "catch up."

[Sande]

I agree with Feanor on the last one.

A good nation builder can get into the top 5% fairly easily. You just need to be active in tech deals, buy or get some donations on your nation, have good trades etc.

I have reached the top 5% twice before. It isn't very hard to outgrow someone else if you do it right.

So, there is no need for the admin to make the large nations weaker or easier to kill.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Sande

[Diogenes]

Again, WTF?!

I am talking about THE GAME here. Not RL. In this game, the nukes are so scary only because they are named "Nuclear weapons".

I am not taking that back.

You are still mixing RL with CN. This is not right.

Yes, nukes are bad in RL and I don't support anyone using them in RL and I know what radiation can do to your body in RL. Chernobyl has $%&@ed up a lot of people too. BUT this is a completely different topic. We are playing CN not RL here.

By playing this game, real life and Cyber Nations intertwine. Nukes and radioactivity are scary because of the connotations they carry - death, ruination and destruction; they [nuclear weapons and radiation] have killed thousands of people, and yet you don't even seem to care. I suppose you're entitled to be as insensitive as you please, but I for one will hold onto compassion, the most critical fiber of humanity.

[Ricardo]

Lol, I can't believe this turned into a moral discussion, you kids need to let it go.

[cookavich]

By playing this game, real life and Cyber Nations intertwine. Nukes and radioactivity are scary because of the connotations they carry - death, ruination and destruction; they [nuclear weapons and radiation] have killed thousands of people, and yet you don't even seem to care. I suppose you're entitled to be as insensitive as you please, but I for one will hold onto compassion, the most critical fiber of humanity.

Here, here.

o/ Quiz for standing up for the poor citizens of our nations. They're the ones that are really affected by nuclear holocaust. That's right, holocaust. Do you really want to be known for something that has holocaust as it's last name? I don't think so.

[WalkerNinja]

This.

Large nations should not be punished just so everyone else can "catch up."

Personally, I'd enjoy a system-wide re-boot. Let's separate the nation building men from the nation building boys...

[kulomascovia]

I see two rough solutions to the warchest problem.

1) Remove the hard cap on money taken/destroyed in wars. Tie it to a percentage of total money on hand, and have that percentage increase as the total money on hand increases (i.e, 50% for anything over a billion, 5% for anything under a million).

2) Institute penalties for having stale cash (i.e, larger bills the larger your warchest).

Yeah, this is actually a pretty good idea.

[Joe Kremlin]

Why should people with warchests be punished just because they built their nations more efficiently or longer than others? I'm sure the people with billion+ wc's would love some new wonders or something but at the moment a lot of people have no better option than tech deals and saving the rest.

[Heft]

More content sounds better to me.  Give me a wonder that lets me attack 25% of my NS value .

(But seriously, I am vehemently against these suggestions. We shouldn't be punished for just being "big". The only thing we have to look forward to now is a warchest, wtf else are we supposed to do if that's removed too? And stealing 500M (or ins omet cases, over 1 BILLION dollars in a hit is ridiculous. We still have nothing to buy. It's not fair to force us into making less money/day by having us purchase over 20k infra.)

This.

Large nations should not be punished just so everyone else can "catch up."

It has nothing to do with being a large nation or letting other nations catch up or anything else like that. It had to do with curbing the utterly ridiculous and game-breaking "warchests" and inflation in general.

If a line in your bills was added that added on some percentage of your current cash holdings to your bills, and that percentage increased the larger your cash holdings (NOT the larger your nation) then it would not punish you in anyway. You would still be able to find a value that allows you to do whatever you want to do with your cash (Send out aid, buy every wonder and eventually !@#$ tons of land because why not?). The only thing it would prevent is having tons and tons of money lying around making it impossible for nations to be damaged in any meaningful way.

[Sande]

By playing this game, real life and Cyber Nations intertwine. Nukes and radioactivity are scary because of the connotations they carry - death, ruination and destruction; they [nuclear weapons and radiation] have killed thousands of people, and yet you don't even seem to care. I suppose you're entitled to be as insensitive as you please, but I for one will hold onto compassion, the most critical fiber of humanity.

As I already said, these things do NOT interwine.

If they did, any war will be just as immoral as any nuclear weapon. May I add that there have been more people killed by ground attacks in RL than the 2 nukes. The ground attacks are worse on a moral point of view. (In CN, then)

Also, in this game, nukes do not kill citizens. They kill soldiers, land and infra. Citizens just "leave" the country. Soldiers are meant to fight the war and die for your country Y/N?

Death, ruination, destruction - is that or is that not the point of war? In CN!

Yes, I don't care for pixels. In CN!

CN is not the same as RL. Please learn it. I like humanity in RL. CN is a different thing. CN is a nation building and war simulation.

Global radiation... It is not realistic in this game. 30 days and it is all gone. The real radiation takes centuries to fade.

This means that the radiation in this game makes it reasonable to use the nukes. After 30 days, it is all back to normal. In CN!

This is the big difference between CN and RL nukes. And this is the main reason why people hate nukes in RL. But you don't have to hate nukes in CN because they don't have quite the same effect. It is just the damn name you are afraid of.

[cookavich]

Sande, your bloodlust truly knows no bounds. Have a little compassion. Put yourself in your citizen's shoes, and then see how much you like nukes.

[Commisar Gaunt]

As I already said, these things do NOT interwine.

If they did, any war will be just as immoral as any nuclear weapon. May I add that there have been more people killed by ground attacks in RL than the 2 nukes. The ground attacks are worse on a moral point of view. (In CN, then)

Also, in this game, nukes do not kill citizens. They kill soldiers, land and infra. Citizens just "leave" the country. Soldiers are meant to fight the war and die for your country Y/N?

Death, ruination, destruction - is that or is that not the point of war? In CN!

Yes, I don't care for pixels. In CN!

CN is not the same as RL. Please learn it. I like humanity in RL. CN is a different thing. CN is a nation building and war simulation.

Global radiation... It is not realistic in this game. 30 days and it is all gone. The real radiation takes centuries to fade.

This means that the radiation in this game makes it reasonable to use the nukes. After 30 days, it is all back to normal. In CN!

This is the big difference between CN and RL nukes. And this is the main reason why people hate nukes in RL. But you don't have to hate nukes in CN because they don't have quite the same effect. It is just the damn name you are afraid of.

Oh no, nukes kill citizens. This is yet another sick part of how nukes work in CN--the citizens are the nameless victims.

[lebubu]

I must say I'm pretty disappointed and quite frankly disgusted by how easily (some) people dismiss the horrors of nuclear war.

edit: some of us have seen and felt the effects of radiation IRL and you talk about nukes like they're some sort of over-sized cruise missiles.

Edited July 1, 2009 by lebubu