NPO - A Suggestion

[Haflinger]

I'm not suggesting that they wouldn't notice a large number of nations coming out of peace mode merely that a few people may get a day or two of respit in war mode just like Kingzong suggested.

Well, I'm revising my opinion of Karma Milcom downward given some of the information that kingzog gave me. Perhaps it might work, at least partly.

[King Silas]

I'm in favour of NPO getting out of war in a realistic fashion.

^im in support to this too

[Stetson76]

Even if they were attacked immediately, they'd be out of peace mode, so they'd only have to take the hits until the terms were signed.

[King Silas]

Or they could sign the treaties (or whatever you call it) and still stay in PM, when NPO signed the whatever you call it THEN they could get out of PM

[Dr hairy Ballz]

I notice NPO's gag order is still in effect... This reminds me of the Soviet state, the Nazi state, China, and oh I could go on.

Remember when Saddam's Minister of Defense said "The infidels tanks are not outside Baghdad", I get a very prominent feeling of deja vu here. Maybe tis just me.

[kevin32891]

I notice NPO's gag order is still in effect... This reminds me of the Soviet state, the Nazi state, China, and oh I could go on.

Remember when Saddam's Minister of Defense said "The infidels tanks are not outside Baghdad", I get a very prominent feeling of deja vu here. Maybe tis just me.

Try again sir.

And thanks for the advice OP but I like nuking my enemies.

[Ogaden]

I notice NPO's gag order is still in effect... This reminds me of the Soviet state, the Nazi state, China, and oh I could go on.

Remember when Saddam's Minister of Defense said "The infidels tanks are not outside Baghdad", I get a very prominent feeling of deja vu here. Maybe tis just me.

Radio Silence has not been re-established, we just don't want to talk to you.

[Dr hairy Ballz]

Radio Silence has not been re-established, we just don't want to talk to you.

Awwwww, but communication is the key to understanding!

[Stetson76]

...

And thanks for the advice OP but I like nuking my enemies.

So, the whole "we can't comply thing" was what?

[George the Great]

Try again sir.

And thanks for the advice OP but I like nuking my enemies.

Radio Silence has not been re-established, we just don't want to talk to you.

Glad to see that isn't the case. Are you guys waiting for a member of government to come online and inform you as to how you should respond to the statements made in this thread? Seems like you guys totally avoided the actual discussion taking place in the thread.

[Systemfailure]

after reading the OP and the replies i have to say if NPO co-ordinated their nations coming out of peace mode and even got 90% of them out they could agree to the terms the next day and their would be a cease fire right after except for those who were still in PM...sounds good but what if Karma dosent re-offer the terms to NPO?

after all NPO refused the terms so really this plan wouldnt really work unless the asked for the original terms to be brought back to the table.

[Stetson76]

That's a good point System, but the montra in the 200 page thread was that the terms were there for NPO to accept or not whenever they decided to, so my belief is that they are still on the table.

[Zeta Defender]

The reps are harsh, but they're still perfectly payable and well deserved.

I see you need to do some reading: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1648232

Awwwww, but communication is the key to understanding!

What are you, Dr Phil now?

Also, if you wonder why people, not just the NPO don't like to visit these forums, see Chron take on the deterioration of the CN Forums: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...showtopic=61826

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1647772

Edited June 29, 2009 by Zeta Defender

[Zeta Defender]

Glad to see that isn't the case. Are you guys waiting for a member of government to come online and inform you as to how you should respond to the statements made in this thread? Seems like you guys totally avoided the actual discussion taking place in the thread.

What discussion? About a strategy that is posted on the CN Forum which is probability already been debated by both sides?

My kind regards to the OPer for his insight in order to bring peace back to Planet Bob. But even if we did that, we still have two weeks of war left per nation even with how George put it a month to comply, these terms are no better than pre terms, one think Karma failed to realize. If Karma wants to end it, they can, give us terms that once signs are attacks are stopped.

I'm not saying we will not have reps, I'm saying, if they wanted the war to end as badly as they try to spin it, we would get terms, not terms with a pre-term clause.

========================

I will take some personal extrapolation from this and say, they want an Eternal War, they just don't want the Bad PR from it being their faults. They are trying to establish that they gave us something and so long as we don't accept, its the NPO's fault, not Karma's for the continuation of this war.

Reminds me of this:

Edited June 29, 2009 by Zeta Defender

[Dr hairy Ballz]

I see you need to do some reading: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1648232

What are you, Dr Phil now?

Also, if you wonder why people, not just the NPO don't like to visit these forums, see Chron take on the deterioration of the CN Forums: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...showtopic=61826

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1647772

I always have been and always shall remain, Doctor Hairy Ballz.

[Stetson76]

---But even if we did that, we still have two weeks of war left per nation even with how George put it a month to comply, these terms are no better than pre terms, one think Karma failed to realize...

There would be no two weeks of war per nation if there were no nations in peace mode when the terms were signed. That's the whole point of this.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

I will take some personal extrapolation from this and say, they want an Eternal War, they just don't want the Bad PR from it being their faults. They are trying to establish that they gave us something and so long as we don't accept, its the NPO's fault, not Karma's for the continuation of this war.

If you believe this is true you must be positively livid with your own government for playing so completely into their hands, no?

[Zeta Defender]

If you believe this is true you must be positively livid with your own government for playing so completely into their hands, no?

Not really as what is perceived is not always the actually in most cases. Comes down to the resolve of the two parties and which one is stronger and can hold out the longest.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Zeta Defender

[the rebel]

OP wall of text......

Interesting, have you been keeping tabs on NPO peace mode nations since April 20th, doesnt look like it because i can see a bunch of them listed who have been in one or more rounds of war so your spreadsheet has errors. But if your referring it to GATO peace mode nation terms, if i remember correctly most if not all of those GATO peace mode nations never saw one or two rounds of war during the whole conflict.

so why would any alliance even think of forcing their own membership to go back into war mode for 2 weeks when they have already been fighting and was lucky enough that when spent and due to poor planning was able to escape back into peace mode.

Edit: removed a un-needed link

Edited June 29, 2009 by the rebel

[steodonn]

And NPO didn't loose... yet. But lets take this situation and turn it around,

Actually they did Moo acknowledged it

[Drai]

well they couldn't even stagger lol so you never know

That's an easy accusation to make, but for the most part it wasn't true. The vast majority of Karma targets were staggered and I know this because I was involved in passing on assigned targets to my alliance and observed the assigning for multiple other alliances. I don't have numbers but I was impressed that a group of alliances that weren't even in a bloc together could pull of something like we did.

If you can truthfully say that in all of NPO's wars targets were almost perfectly staggered I'll change my perspective. However I know that's not true. Unless an alliance has an IRC activity rate of 50%+ I don't see near-perfect staggering as possible.

[Stetson76]

Interesting, have you been keeping tabs on NPO peace mode nations since April 20th, doesnt look like it because i can see a bunch of them listed who have been in one or more rounds of war so your spreadsheet has errors. But if your referring it to GATO peace mode nation terms, if i remember correctly most if not all of those GATO peace mode nations never saw one or two rounds of war during the whole conflict.

so why would any alliance even think of forcing their own membership to go back into war mode for 2 weeks when they have already been fighting and was lucky enough that when spent and due to poor planning was able to escape back into peace mode.

Edit: removed a un-needed link

I have not been keeping track since day 1. What I am saying is that the terms as presented say nations that ARE in peace mode, not were, not will be, but are will be forced to come out of peace mode and submit to two additional weeks of war. If they come out of peace mode before the terms are signed, then they only have to suffer war for as long as it takes for NPO to accept the terms. Then, according the revised terms that George posted earlier, anyone who's still in peace mode once the terms have been signed would have 30 days to come out and face those two additional weeks of war.

The fact is that the NPO could tell all of their peace mode nations to come out and then they can decide when they sign the terms so they can do it as soon as they get their banks out and they can avoid them taking two weeks worth of damage.

[blazedinacoffin]

The fact is that the NPO could tell all of their peace mode nations to come out and then they can decide when they sign the terms so they can do it as soon as they get their banks out and they can avoid them taking two weeks worth of damage.

assuming that karma isn't watching, ready to divebomb them the second they come out, of course. big assumption

[muffasamini]

They can make it an internal announcement and hope that the Karma forces don't notice them coming out for a few days.

lol, dont be nieve, they are watching very closely.

If they message all of their PM nations today and tell them that in 7 days time, everyone must be out peace mode one of two things is going to happen. Either everyone will come out, Happy Day, they can sign the terms immediately and beging paying back, or there will be straggelers that haven't complied in time. Those stragglers could have upwards of 2 weeks of additional time to come out without causing any further damage to the alliance than the terms have mandated already.

Umm, lets think about this for a second. The terms stated that we would be in 14 days of war after the terms are signed, and all nations in compliance. Lets just say for easy math, that our alliance (that section of it in duress of the terms) is one single nation.

The standard way of thinking:

x days after signing before we reach compliance + 14 war days = 14+x

Your way:

y (y =somewhere around 7) days of war after leaving peace before signing terms + x days after signing before complaince is reached + 14 war days = 14 +x + y (approx 21+x)

14 +y +x > 14+x. Why was this a good idea?

Perhaps you've misunderstood the terms, or I misunderstand your logic.

Edited June 29, 2009 by muffasamini

[Cortath]

We have been through this several times, with many fine people from the opposite end of the table, including the ever-hostile George the Great.

As we have said, time and time again, there were two main issues with the first set of terms. Firstly, was bringing the nations out of PM in the time allotted to achieve 90% compliance. The second was destroying those nations best able to pay reparations and simultaneously demand large reparations.

The proposal George the Great brings up attempts to eliminate the first issue. Let's pretend we all agree that it does. The second issue still remains and is unaddressed. You cannot both destroy the income generating nations of an alliance and then ask the alliance to pay very large reparations. You can do one. You can do the other. You cannot do both.

Now let's be realistic and and discuss some of the proposals of "remove your nations from PM and sign peace." We are not fools. If we removed our banks from peace mode and tried signing peace terms the same night, Karma would reject the peace. Karma wants war. They want war against our banks. These terms were specifically designed to achieve, from Karma's perspective, at worst, a lot of damage against our banks, and at best, an eternal war. If we did like some suggest, by removing nations from PM in preparation for an immediate signing of peace terms, the peace terms would be off the table as soon as could be.