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MHA: request for explanation


emily

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I think i have both sides of that down pretty well :) Afterall, I was a concerned party.
20:53 < tristram> scutterbug if its so sensitive why did you guys send me the logs for no reason tongue.gif

20:54 <@ScutterBug[MHA]> shame she made that hard on herself returning to spy on us

20:54 <@ScutterBug[MHA]> you were a concerned party

20:54 <@ScutterBug[MHA]> as she also claimed to have access to ur forums

20:54 <@ScutterBug[MHA]> we forwarded the required info to you guys

20:54 < tristram> i would have ignored me smile.gif

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Small question about the bolded part. Does that mean you'd have leaked it, or that there was the possibility that someone could leak it and cause trouble? Because if it's the first part while it might not be spying I can see why you'd be on the tail end of a beat down.

It was leaked BEFORE I accessed the forum to check it. Presumably by someone within MHA with the intent of causing hurt and distress.

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Small question about the bolded part. Does that mean you'd have leaked it, or that there was the possibility that someone could leak it and cause trouble? Because if it's the first part while it might not be spying I can see why you'd be on the tail end of a beat down.

The information they are talking about has never been leaked...

She brought the content that was going to be leaked by someone else to their attention from what i heard, in the logs from both sides.

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Shamshir, im pretty sure i have a great idea of the situation after being provided with logs from scutterbug, and myth. While also launching our own investigation and speaking with the accused.

Also, isnt Emily a current member of CoR? and shouldnt they have some kind of involvement in how the case proceeds given previous MHA precedents from what i have seen, when i was in govt.

Edited by tristram
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Look, our entire upper leadership is currently Australian/New Zealanders. So at this moment in time our triumvirate is asleep. So i would expect an full statement in this thread fully detailing why we are ZIing emily.

This is not an urgent issue that need to be resolved right now, i know the drama well has been a little dry but you'll have to wait for one of our triumvirs to come here in a little while to slake your thirst.

But it would be uncharacteristic of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to ZI a nation for no good reason. So what to do while we wait? Anyone for a game of trivia in #mha?

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Look, our entire upper leadership is currently Australian/New Zealanders. So at this moment in time our triumvirate is asleep. So i would expect an full statement in this thread fully detailing why we are ZIing emily.

This is not an urgent issue that need to be resolved right now, i know the drama well has been a little dry but you'll have to wait for one of our triumvirs to come here in a little while to slake your thirst.

But it would be uncharacteristic of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to ZI a nation for no good reason. So what to do while we wait? Anyone for a game of trivia in #mha?

I think its more a matter that MHA picks and chooses who to ZI for what reason. I mean you guys caught that Vox spy. He wasnt even ZId, and he posted government pictures. Also, Josshill wasnt ZI for his actions.

I honestly do not know any former MHA members that were ZId for something so miniscule, especially someone of Emily's stature.

She practically was the only one running the Towels department after Nolissar and I departed.

Sounds more like a trusted member stabbed in the back at the end of the day for a reason that is no where near as serious as what HAS happened.

EDIT: Like that UA incident :)

Edited by tristram
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After a rather long discussion with Scutterbug in #mha earlier, I have to admit I am completely not convinced of anything in this particular solution.

Considering that no one refuted this post here -

Saw a 4 page long OOC hate campaign by MHA gov against a gentle and lovely former member.

So privately advised MHA gov to take it down before it was leaked any further and caused more distress to the chap involved. But looking back, perhaps that was the exact intention of the thread in the first place.

No secrecy about what I'd seen, no hostile intent, no passing details to other people. Just pointing out that this is not how the MHA i know and loved used to behave, and trying to protect a dear friend.

If that's a crime then I'll take ZI for that! But I would still like a trial.

I find it pretty interesting. There appears to be blame to go around here.

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We can and have made mistakes, we are after all human. If we have we will admit to it. But currently there is no one online at this moment in time that can answer the OP. So again I will say wait for our official line :)

Well i think the point is also, why should there need to be a thread in the OWF for emily to receive a trial? Its a matter of harmlessness in the end of the day this just seems babyish to be so gungho about...

whatever happened to this game being for the fun of people. Doesnt seem like she was hurting your fun.

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Well i think the point is also, why should there need to be a thread in the OWF for emily to receive a trial? Its a matter of harmlessness in the end of the day this just seems babyish to be so gungho about...

whatever happened to this game being for the fun of people. Doesnt seem like she was hurting your fun.

Were the Mostly Harmless Alliance, if we have indeed made a mistake then yes this thread was needed. But chances are we have not. Actions tend to have consequences.

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Edited names & spellings:

Session Start: Wed Jun 24 19:10:49 2009

Session Ident: IYIyTh[MHA]

01[19:10] <emily> you there/

01[19:10] <emily> ?

[19:11] <IYIyTh[MHA]> yeahi

01[19:11] <emily> erm

01[19:12] <emily> erm

01[19:12] <emily> I appreciate the whole myth/emily trust thing is a bit deficient atm

01[19:12] <emily> but I'd like to ask a big favour

01[19:13] <emily> I really think the whole I hate ****** thread needs to be moved/deleted

01[19:14] <emily> if it's not too late already

01[19:16] <emily> ?

01[19:18] <emily> well ok it's not really a favour

01[19:18] <emily> but if I'm getting screenshots

01[19:19] <emily> so are they.... unless that was the whole point

[19:20] <IYIyTh[MHA]> screenshots?

01[19:20] <emily> yes

01[19:20] <emily> look

01[19:21] <emily> i don't know what to say

01[19:21] <emily> ****** an immature *****

01[19:21] <emily> we know that

01[19:21] <emily> you're annoying...we know that too

01[19:21] <emily> but 4 pages of bile does not look good

01[19:22] <emily> I spoke to ***** yesterday btw

[19:22] <IYIyTh[MHA]> link?

01[19:22] <emily> to what?

[19:23] <IYIyTh[MHA]> to that thread?

01[19:23] <emily> behold ******** biggest loser in the world

01[19:24] <emily> but ANYONE could get you the link with minimum effort

01[19:24] <emily> you know that....

[19:24] <IYIyTh[MHA]> no. not really.

[19:24] <IYIyTh[MHA]> unless someone was spying.

01[19:24] <emily> well

01[19:24] <emily> I did get sent the shots

01[19:25] <emily> if they get wind of this

01[19:25] <emily> they'll be in looking

01[19:25] <emily> myth

01[19:25] <emily> is that what you really want?

[19:25] <IYIyTh[MHA]> yes.

01[19:25] <emily> ah

01[19:25] <emily> well

[19:25] <IYIyTh[MHA]> i want them to show me proof they're spying on us

[19:25] <IYIyTh[MHA]> that would be just dandy

01[19:25] <emily> lol

01[19:26] <emily> well

01[19:26] <emily> I fear that

01[19:26] <emily>******* would just end up being used as a pawn in that game again....

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Since the proverbial dirty laundry has now been placed in the open (though without a rebuttle in place from the Mostly Harmless Alliance to the specifics) I do have to ask about the circumstances of this person's ZI sentence since this is how the progression appears to me:

1. Emily receives screenshots of a thread which appears to contain personal attacks on another national ruler

2. Emily logs onto the forums to confirm the existence of said thread to ensure she is not being given incorrect information.

3. Emily goes to speak with a member of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to suggest that the thread be moved and/or dealt with out of concern for the political consequences.

4. Emily is accused of spying and is ZIed.

Is this progression correct?

Edit: Corrected due to overlooking a key detail in the account.

Edited by Tokugawa Mitsukuni
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Since the proverbial dirty laundry has now been placed in the open (though without a rebuttle in place from the Mostly Harmless Alliance to the specifics) I do have to ask about the circumstances of this person's ZI sentence since this is how the progression appears to me:

1. Emily receives screenshots of a thread which appears to contain personal attacks on another national ruler

2. Emily goes to speak with a member of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to suggest that the thread be moved and/or dealt with out of concern for the political consequences.

3. Emily is accused of spying and is ZIed.

Is this progression correct?

1. Emily receives screenshots of a thread which appears to contain personal attacks on another national ruler

1.5 Emily views original thread to ensure she is not being fed false info.

2. Emily goes to speak with a member of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to suggest that the thread be moved and/or dealt with out of concern for the political consequences.

3. Emily is accused of spying and is ZIed.

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1. Emily receives screenshots of a thread which appears to contain personal attacks on another national ruler

1.5 Emily views original thread to ensure she is not being fed false info.

2. Emily goes to speak with a member of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to suggest that the thread be moved and/or dealt with out of concern for the political consequences.

3. Emily is accused of spying and is ZIed.

Excellent - thank you for your correction.

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1. Emily receives screenshots of a thread which appears to contain personal attacks on another national ruler

1.5 Emily views original thread to ensure she is not being fed false info.

2. Emily goes to speak with a member of the Mostly Harmless Alliance to suggest that the thread be moved and/or dealt with out of concern for the political consequences.

3. Emily is accused of spying and is ZIed.

So again emily admits to spying on us. 1.5 involves accessing parts of our forum which only a member can see. As previously stated we also have the confession of emily admitting to accessing said account without permission and using said account to gain access to our forums. Until a higher authority allows it. The confession in question can not be posted.

All i can say as a member of MHA government is wait for our announcement when one of our trivs wakes up to clarify our position fully. Until then your only hearing one side of the story and bare in mind your hearing it fromy emily herself so of course shes gonna put her personal spin on it.

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Fixed for you.

I'm aware that the current account is biased, hence my noting the lack of a rebuttle being present. Building a summation of the current issue point-by-point is important for future understanding of the thread as a whole. Since Emily has brought the issue it is important to have a complete understanding of her view of how things have occured.

All i can say as a member of MHA government is wait for our announcement when one of our trivs wakes up to clarify our position fully. Until then your only hearing one side of the story and bare in mind your hearing it fromy emily herself so of course shes gonna put her personal spin on it.

I continue to keep an open mind on the subject - I just like to make sure I understand what is being said clearly.

Edited by Tokugawa Mitsukuni
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So again emily admits to spying on us. 1.5 involves accessing parts of our forum which only a member can see. As previously stated we also have the confession of emily admitting to accessing said account without permission and using said account to gain access to our forums. Until a higher authority allows it. The confession in question can not be posted.

All i can say as a member of MHA government is wait for our announcement when one of our trivs wakes up to clarify our position fully. Until then your only hearing one side of the story and bare in mind your hearing it fromy emily herself so of course shes gonna put her personal spin on it.

No - I would not actually go so far as to say 1.5 is an admission of spying.

1.5 Has NEVER been denied by me. In-fact, it the logs clearly show this information was VOLUNTEERED to MHA (the log I have posted predates the supposed later confession). But it does not show any hostile intent, nor was it done furtively, so cannot constitute spying.

I have yet to receive a decent argument as to how this constitutes betrayal of MHA or warrants ZI. Particularly given previous presidents of MHA spies.

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All i have to say is...

if she is going to be ZId for spying on a thread, might as well post it for the world to see :)

This is the VERB definition that you are all discussing. The act of spying.

spy

  /spaɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spahy] Show IPA ,noun, plural spies, verb, spied, spy⋅ing.

–verb (used without object)

5. to observe secretively or furtively with hostile intent (often fol. by on or upon).

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All i have to say is...

if she is going to be ZId for spying on a thread, might as well post it for the world to see :)

I would agree that the temptation is present, though doing so tends to have consequences which follow rulers who make this choice for a long while. I would advise caution since this matter has not been officially addressed by the Mostly Harmless Alliance at this time.

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Well if it's true that certain spies like Vox have been let off free then so should a former member. I mean the Vox spy was obviously there for malicious intent. If Emily was there for malicious intent it also shouldn't matter.

If you set a precedent then follow it. You can't just choose by paper scissors rock.

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As previously stated we also have the confession of emily admitting to accessing said account without permission and using said account to gain access to our forums. Until a higher authority allows it. The confession in question can not be posted.

This one? [edited names & spelling]

EDIT: LOGS DELETED TO AVOID EMBARRASSMENT TO OTHER PARTY

EDIT2: put back in....

Session Start: Wed Jun 24 20:32:32 2009

Session Ident: scutterbug[MHA]

01[20:32] <emily> what?

01[20:34] <emily> talk to me.....

01[20:35] <emily> you know....

01[20:36] <emily> I havent told anyone what I was shown....

[20:37] <ScutterBug[MHA]> We have your current ip address logged on ******* account

[20:37] <ScutterBug[MHA]> and that is all i shall say right now

01[20:37] <emily> SCUTTER HELP ME SORT THIS!!!!!!

01[20:37] <emily> OF COURSE YOU DO!

01[20:37] <emily> I'm not going to ask about *****like that without checking

01[20:40] <emily> I looked this morning

01[20:40] <emily> and

01[20:40] <emily> cross checked this afternoon

01[20:40] <emily> and

01[20:40] <emily> MHA gov were told about it....

[20:42] <ScutterBug[MHA]> im talking forum account here

01[20:42] <emily> ScutterBug[MHA] TALK TO ME!

[20:42] <ScutterBug[MHA]> where ur ip has made 1 post on ******* forum account

[20:42] <ScutterBug[MHA]> which was earlier today

01[20:42] <emily> YES

01[20:42] <emily> so?

[20:42] <ScutterBug[MHA]> so, you were still accessing potentially secure information you were no longer supposed to see

[20:43] <ScutterBug[MHA]> without our knowledge

01[20:43] <emily> ah

01[20:43] <emily> well

01[20:43] <emily> I had already seen it

01[20:43] <emily> but

01[20:44] <emily> well

01[20:44] <emily> sometimes I get the feeling I'm being played

01[20:44] <emily> so i checked

01[20:45] <emily> I am not an enemy of MHA

01[20:45] <emily> and we both know

01[20:45] <emily> anyone of us

01[20:45] <emily> can access those forums

01[20:45] <emily> with very little effort

01[20:46] <emily> so

01[20:46] <emily> sensitive stuff

01[20:46] <emily> needs to be hidden

01[20:46] <emily> you know that

01[20:46] <emily> that stuff should never have sat there that long

01[20:46] <emily> unless it was as bait

01[20:47] <emily> in which case

[20:47] <ScutterBug[MHA]> this does not justify your actions

01[20:47] <emily> it has not caught it's intended target

[20:47] <ScutterBug[MHA]> and now im done dealing with you

Where is the without permission bit? Given that I was given access to it in the first place and various MHA gov were aware I had access to another members account. In fact, if you, yourself were not aware of it, how did you know where to look?

Guess they have both sides now?

Edited by emily
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