Il Terra Di Agea Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 (edited) You have no right than to discuss terms with your saviors. Yes, you fought, but if it weren't for the intervention of the Coalition, would you have survived? No.Now, have some common sense: Just because you believe yourselves to be so morally rightous does not mean the world at large is the same. Just as Slavorussia probably have nuclear weapons, so would Nordheim wish to ensure their safety. This is the rational behind the giving of codes to either Prussia or Hansa: To keep Nordheim on a leash while also ensuring they feel safe from this heartless world. And how long do you think it would take for them to take the safety features out of their own nukes, that they build, and launch them anyway? Almost none. They cannot be trusted under any circumstances. They have proven violent and impulsive, ready to use their devices at a moment's notice without regret. They are the only nation truly holding on to the ways of the nords, and until we take away their weapons, Nordland still exists, waiting to take Europe once again. If you were truely fighting Nordland, you would see this, but with every passing moment, it appears you are trying to help them fight back agaisnt the nations that lost life to destroy them. Edited June 22, 2009 by Il Terra Di Agea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted June 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Then what if a third party makes the warhead so make sure that Nordheim does not attempt to back out of the deal? We are fighting against the corruption of Nordland under Visari, for that bloodthirsty tyrant was the cause for all the madness in Europe. If TEC does not recognize this, and continues to attempt this cultural genocide, we would have to support the true upholders of peace. This goes for all sides: if any entity attempts to disrupt the peace of Europe, we shall fight against it, be it Nordland, TEC, or Hansa. This is the obligation we have as citizens of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 You have no right than to discuss terms with your saviors. Yes, you fought, but if it weren't for the intervention of the Coalition, would you have survived? No.Now, have some common sense: Just because you believe yourselves to be so morally rightous does not mean the world at large is the same. Just as Slavorussia probably have nuclear weapons, so would Nordheim wish to ensure their safety. This is the rational behind the giving of codes to either Prussia or Hansa: To keep Nordheim on a leash while also ensuring they feel safe from this heartless world. We don't have any nuclear weapons for Nordheim to fear for their safety, but if we did we don't have a history of threatening to use our nuclear, biological and chemical weapons on our neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeSchaine Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Then what if a third party makes the warhead so make sure that Nordheim does not attempt to back out of the deal?We are fighting against the corruption of Nordland under Visari, for that bloodthirsty tyrant was the cause for all the madness in Europe. If TEC does not recognize this, and continues to attempt this cultural genocide, we would have to support the true upholders of peace. This goes for all sides: if any entity attempts to disrupt the peace of Europe, we shall fight against it, be it Nordland, TEC, or Hansa. This is the obligation we have as citizens of Europe. Any nation capable of creating their own warheads is also capable of taking apart third party made ones and redoing them to their own specifications. No, a part of this agreement MUST be that there are NO nuclear capable ICBM's in Nordheim. Just where the hell do you get cultural genocide out of any of this? You talk about supporting upholders of peace then toss about unsubstantiated accusations like that? Not conducive to peace, from our way of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) ...Nordheim never did have a Navy. That's why our coasts have always had instead fortifications. Anyway... The reason why we're not going to go without nukes is...quite simple. Save for two exceptions, everybody else in the world - not just Europe - hates us. If we had no WMDs, we could be invaded easily. However if we continue to have WMDs, we have found ourselves a good way to make sure we stay truly independent, for obvious reasons. We most certainly do not trust at all to be given protection by any such former enemies...and it is curious to see that Überstein insists on disarming Nordheim, which has a record of 0 WMDs used, while he himself had nearly destroyed the world with his failed Doomsday Device. Doing away with the WMDs equals to being one hundred procent defenseless, and we will never, no matter what, get rid of them. So now you have yourselves a paradox. You can either let us be and remain in peace and war us, but the WMDs will only be used if we run out of means during a war. So ironically enough in order for you to stop WMDs from being used, you would cause them to be used. And as Mannelig's Trap describes, a nation that has WMDs when facing overwhelming powers will use them. This has also been seen in Mainland Europe. We have taken steps to avoid this, as we're accepting the rest of the conditions - even free democratic universal ellections if needed be. But if we get rid of our weapons, we're as good as dead. Magnhild, as I said, cannot be put onto trial, as she is not responsible. But the rest will definately go for some trial, even myself. However, said trial would need to be held at a nation which was truly neutral in the war, such as the land of the Dragons or Transvaal. We do not ask for anything other than to be left alone. We do not wish for war to continue. But we're not gonna dig ourselves into a Versailles only to have popular rage ellect a true madman. The decision is in your hands. If we wanted nuclear war, we'd simply nuke this very room wiping all of you out, instead of sitting and discussing things peacefully. For a nation which is supposed to be keen on launching nukes, we ARE indeed going quite out of our way to ensure that we do not ever have to use them. Of course, you'll likely claim for us to be threatening. I do think that some of you may simply intend on eliminating our people and culture as a whole. Some of you would love for us to shoot our weapons simply to justify our total annihilation...and I feel that that's the reason why you won't accept...a holocaust in the making...sad. And that's all I have to say about that. Edited June 23, 2009 by Kaiser Martens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) Nordheim’s nuclear weapons have been an issue of concern since the end of the war. There was a proposal that the codes for these weapons be given to Prussia. If there was a small committee, or seasoned, rational military leaders with control over Nordheim’s destructive weapons we may accept. As for the trials, they will be held in Europe in a place of the prosecution’s choosing. I personally favor Berlin for the location. It seems fitting, a city near the heart of Nordland. Magnhild is a leader, just like Albert Trazband. If she was not responsible the jury will find her not guilty and she'll be released. Either way her testimony should be useful during the trials. We would appreciate it if Nordheim’s authorities would detain all the leaders who will be put on trial we would greatly appreciate it. EDIT: There is one more thing I’d like to address, the issue of the Baltic States. Slavorussia and Nordland have both occupied the area for centuries, and the issue has been huge topic of debate and the cause of rivalry between our nations for some time. I think now this would be a good chance for the region to have self rule. Edited June 23, 2009 by Justinian the Mighty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) It is thankful that Slavorussia is still the coolest head of TEC. Would the other TEC members agree with Slavorussia on the nuclear weapons issue? However we have to oppse the self-rule proposal. The Baltic is Nordic. Edited June 23, 2009 by Sumeragi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Confederation Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 "I propose an alternative..." The Prussian diplomat rose from the table near the back of the room. "Prussia supports neither a Nordic or a Russian Baltic. The domain of the Baltic should not belong to foreign powers whose cultures originate thousands of miles away...no...the Baltic belongs to the people who live there. They may embrace their Nordic history and their Slavorussian history in their own culture...a Baltic culture. The Prussian representative hereby motions to create an independent Baltic state administrated by Baltic people, for Baltic people. The nations of Nordheim and Slavorussia can stand hand in hand to support a fundamental Baltic state by working together in choosing a successor state for the area. Cooperation is the first step toward peace." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 "We're not detained because there's no replacements for the time being until these negotiations are over. Either way the two Nordheimers were Tyr and myself Zisa, and we're staying and facing trial if needed be, but for now it's our responsability to make sure that these negotiations end...if possible, well." "We'd be in favor of allowing the Prussians to have control over our WMDs, for we trust them enough." "As for the Baltic, both countries have good claims for it. Right now, the Baltic does not want for self-rule in any way in fact accordingly to data, and wishes to remain a part of Nordheim. However there were those who were displaced, Baltic Slavorussians, who would actually favor being a part of Slavorussia. But our data shows that only a tiny minority would like to be free by itself. The best would be to partition the zone we think...because if we do so, I think that it will never be fought-over again as long as both countries exist." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Monika lets out a sigh of relief. "Finally we're getting somewhere." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 "I do not see how asking for the removal of nuclear weapons is asking for the destuction of Nordheim. We simply wish to remove their nuclear capability, establish a DMZ on their side of the boarder, and then get back to getting Europe repaired." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 "I propose an alternative..."The Prussian diplomat rose from the table near the back of the room. "Prussia supports neither a Nordic or a Russian Baltic. The domain of the Baltic should not belong to foreign powers whose cultures originate thousands of miles away...no...the Baltic belongs to the people who live there. They may embrace their Nordic history and their Slavorussian history in their own culture...a Baltic culture. The Prussian representative hereby motions to create an independent Baltic state administrated by Baltic people, for Baltic people. The nations of Nordheim and Slavorussia can stand hand in hand to support a fundamental Baltic state by working together in choosing a successor state for the area. Cooperation is the first step toward peace." ic/ooc: That's what I meant when I said self rule. Independant, and not an autonomous part of Nordhiem or Slavorussia "We're not detained because there's no replacements for the time being until these negotiations are over. Either way the two Nordheimers were Tyr and myself Zisa, and we're staying and facing trial if needed be, but for now it's our responsability to make sure that these negotiations end...if possible, well.""We'd be in favor of allowing the Prussians to have control over our WMDs, for we trust them enough." "As for the Baltic, both countries have good claims for it. Right now, the Baltic does not want for self-rule in any way in fact accordingly to data, and wishes to remain a part of Nordheim. However there were those who were displaced, Baltic Slavorussians, who would actually favor being a part of Slavorussia. But our data shows that only a tiny minority would like to be free by itself. The best would be to partition the zone we think...because if we do so, I think that it will never be fought-over again as long as both countries exist." Any high ranking military officials would be appreciated as well, and if you can provide us with the whereabouts of the infamous Kaiser Martens, we believe he should stand trial with his compatriots. Despite what some may believe that the Baltic is purely Nordlandic, or purely Slavorussia the region is first and foremost Baltic. There were Baltic tribes and Baltic nations there before Slavorussia or Nordland interfered. Partitioning it wasn’t really what we hoped for the people, but we’re open to the idea. I have to point out I can only speak for the Slavorussian government. Premier Medvedev and the Dowager are very weary of these talks, the wars the bickering and they just want it to be over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 "The closest we are willing to go to letting Nordheim keep their nucleate weapons is if the radioactive components are removed, and put in one nation, the firing codes are put in another nation, and the non-functional devices may stay in Nordheim for the duration of surrender agreements. Short of that, only destruction will do. As for the Baltic states, we agree fully that they should be made into an independent nation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: This is getting silly. Srsly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 "...But the people in the baltic states don't want to be a free nation. It is practically impossible to find anyone who will consider themselves Baltic, or even finding someone who speaks the language is impossible. Everyone either considers themselves Slavorussian or Nordlandic. The Baltic tribes are really no more, all have willingly mixed into our nations and ceased to exist over centuries of occupation. Their own language is considered to be dead. And if anyone from Nordland referred to them as "Balts" it'd actually be considered discriminating, in the sense that it says "You're different from me" while they do not consider themselves to be different...even the old phenotypes are hardly found." "What good would be having dissassembled nuclear weapons? That's like not having them at all. If enemies know that it'd take endless bureaucracy and then an actual long time to assemble and fire them, then they can just speculate and rush us before we're able to do anything...that is silly." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: This is getting silly. Srsly Ooc: Thank you for your entirely unwanted and unnecessary commentary. It's called negotiating, not everything is just automatically agreed on. Kthxbai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: No, silly would be me going like "lol nuke" **boom** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: did you click on the link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: This is getting silly. Srsly OOC: ...but he hasn't signed. How is that accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: lol movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Magnhild, as I said, cannot be put onto trial, as she is not responsible. But the rest will definately go for some trial, even myself. However, said trial would need to be held at a nation which was truly neutral in the war, such as the land of the Dragons or Transvaal. Transvaal would be willing to host and participate in a trial if need be - everyone knows we are about as neutral as can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberstein Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: Botha, you aren't here. IC: Why are you so defencive of Magnhild? If she is innocent, she will be let free. Pregnancy is a common thing, not some kind of crippling disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 OOC: Botha, you aren't here True - but it isn't hard to make our offers known through third-party means. We do also have a reputation for hosting political exiles, so offering Martens asylum should come as no surprise to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted June 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Monika had received the message from Transvaal and opened it to the rest of the delegates. "That's what Transvall has to say about itself. Now, since this nuclear weapon business is holding up everything, I propose this: We, the European Kyokujitsujins, take custody of the weapons, and station them in an independent base which will be guarded by both forces from Nordheim and TEC. Or we can just give them to Prussia, which is an honorable nation as even TEC recognizes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacharth Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 (edited) OOC: Nvm, forgot I wasn't here Edited June 23, 2009 by VinceSixx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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