Jump to content

Questions about reparation...now with 71% less NPO


Otherworld

Recommended Posts

Since when did 1,000 technology become a bar for who can pay reps? I make $3,000,000 a day, with labor camps in a cycle, and I only have two hundred or so one hundred twenty technology.

It's designed to punished the top tier (and typically older/more experienced fighters) by taking their technology away from them thereby weakening the alliance as a whole for some time and limiting their capacity to come back and fight in another war

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

It's designed to punished the top tier (and typically older/more experienced fighters) by taking their technology away from them thereby weakening the alliance as a whole for some time and limiting their capacity to come back and fight in another war

In the logs they said it was meant to make sure "the people in charge of this mess, the gov't and the older members pay the reps and not the mindless drone who just followed orders.", which hilariously it completely fails to accomplish :D. To me, it's a "cripple Echelon's military ability" term. Nothing more or less, but despicable enough to not accept the terms because of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the logs they said it was meant to make sure "the people in charge of this mess, the gov't and the older members pay the reps and not the mindless drone who just followed orders.", which hilariously it completely fails to accomplish :D. To me, it's a "cripple Echelon's military ability" term. Nothing more or less, but despicable enough to not accept the terms because of it.

I can see how it could accomplish that - it can actually accomplish both at the same time. It's typical for alliances to force government members to pay some of the reps since it's their decisions that put their alliance in the position it is in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think many people in Karma are trying to be fair. This is about evening the score, resetting the table, getting back to equilibrium, righting wrongs, even with more wrongs if necessary. If NPO holds a grudge against those delivering reps to them (or if Echelon does as well) they need to look at their actions in the past and decide if they still think it was worth it.

The idea of Karma is very eye for an eye. Reaping what you sow. And so on.

My point is, you can point the finger anywhere you want but if there is someone who deserves to be pointed at, it is NPO and their hegemonic allies.

I've never said I have an issue with eye for an eye justice. The main issue I have is with the good guy persona Karma is attempting to convey. Eye for an eye is not "good guy" and it does not "right wrongs," it merely serves revenge. I have no problems with that philosophy, but lets call a spade a spade.

Eye for an eye justice never has a long term positive effect (see human history). Eventually the pendulum swings the other way and Karma will be on the receiving side of, what will then be, insane rep demands (whether its at the hands of NPO or someone else is completely irrelevant). At that point in time Karma will have just as little right to complain as NPO has to complain now, specifically they will have none.

Yes you heard me right, NPO (the alliance I am in) has no right to complain about the reps asked of her and would be hypocritical if it did not comply with the payments. Our leadership has stated as much and we have agreed to pay the reps, including 1 billion more than initially asked. The thing that we are not complying with is the demands that limit who may pay reps and require those who pay reps to be beaten to a pulp before beginning. These clauses are designed to bring the NPO as close to the breaking point as is possible and, in our estimation, actually take us over that point. Not from the fact that 8 billion or 300k tech is impossible given an appropriate set of conditions but from the fact that if, during our repayment, conditions change and we cannot meet the minimum monthly demands we are left to rely on the good will of a group who harbors tremendous ill will towards us and contains many members that admittedly want to see us no longer exist.

Now you are absolutely right that we (I say we even though I wasn't NPO at the time any of this happened) deserve the finger pointed at us for starting the car and steering it down this path. However, you must also admit that now Karma is in the drivers seat and if you fail to change the direction of the car, or at the very least slow it down, you cannot expect sympathy when you are again inevitably being run over by it.

Note: None of this should be read as implying that I have the attitude of "NPO will rise again and crush you all, just wait" but rather that I've played this game for a long long time and if there's one thing I've learned it's that the pendulum always swings. Sometimes you'll be able to hold it up on one side for a good long time as NPO has seemed to do for the better part of CN history, but eventually it *will* come swinging back. If there's nothing else both sides can agree on, I believe we can find common ground on that point.

Edited by hamlin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see how it could accomplish that - it can actually accomplish both at the same time. It's typical for alliances to force government members to pay some of the reps since it's their decisions that put their alliance in the position it is in.

We have one tier1 leader, two former ministers (finance and FA) and twi current (sorta-ish, transition) ministers (defence and FA) among those with 1k tech and more. 24 "innocents" and none of those who get elected into leadership among them. So instead of the stupid 1k rule, I personally would have liked a "we want the leaders to pay" approach, where they provide the names of leadership they deem most in the wrong (names are all over the place, wiki, OWF announcements etc.). But like I said, that is not their real intention in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a note, so did half of the alliances now attacking NPO.

It really boils down to this. When NPO was on top NPO dictated the terms. When Karma is on top Karma is dictating the terms. Same car, same direction, different driver.

As time goes on the only thing that changes is the speed of the car (size of the reps). Eventually (we appear to be at, or at the very least on the brink of, this point) there comes a point when the car is going too fast to control. The result is a crash in which everyone gets hurt.

Many many nations/alliances admit that high reps are a reason they hate NPO but then are shocked to think that NPO might actually grow to hate them due to the reps they are attempting to impose.

NPO imposing high reps might make it easier to justify overly high reps being imposed on us, however it doesn't make it any more right.

People did not hate NPO for "high reps", they hated the NPO for the draconian overly harsh reps imposed on alliances who had not done anything wrong or had commited a very minor offense(see eternal war on FAN for a VERY minor peace term violation).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, echelon, I'd imagine some alliances are still pissed about you ditching BLEU for 1V and then participating in BLEU's destruction, no?

Yes, sure...be pissed at that. But when were harsh reps introduced for leaving a bloc?

You are missing the point here...karma alliances say "OMG NPO ALLY MUST PAY HIGH REPS FOR THE WRONG THEY HAVE DONE"

But really, what reparation demands have Echelon done that are so over the top? Compare it to other defeated alliances in this war.. Echelon have asked for less in the past, and been demanded to pay more. That is what I don't get.

Sure Echelon is not perfect...but BEFORE you even factor in the 1k term...thse reps are overly harsh, when adding the 1k term as well they are stupidly high...as people in this thread clearly agree with.

It shows karmas aim is to carry the war on until the opposition is destroyed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh dear God...within a week we'll have "TPF Reps?", "64Digits Reps", and "Avalon Reps" threads. Get over it! Stop whining! You're not going to change the terms by throwing yourself on the ground and screaming "Echelon and NPO have harsh terms! I wanna give em different terms!" What's done is done. The reps that the governments of each alliance accepts are the reps that the defeated will pay!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's done is done. The reps that the governments of each alliance accepts are the reps that the defeated will pay!

They haven't been accepted. please don't post unless you know what you are talking about.

And for the record, I'm not a member of Echelon. It is just a simple fact that this is going to both bite the karma alliances in the $@! and result in every alliance bailing at the start of wars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This isn't a war on NPO, it's a war on the Hegemony.

What you really ought to be questioning is, why did so many alliances get out so easily?

correct me if I am wrong..but aren't Hegemony alliances fighting on the other side this war? doesn't quite work out. And to say that karma isn't to bring down NPO mainly is a bit of a bold statement to make.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They haven't been accepted. please don't post unless you know what you are talking about.

And for the record, I'm not a member of Echelon. It is just a simple fact that this is going to both bite the karma alliances in the $@! and result in every alliance bailing at the start of wars.

Did I say they'd been accepted? No. I said that you have no say in what the terms are. If they accept the terms given, those are the terms they will pay. Have they been accepted? No.

Now how about you learn to read before you accuse people of not knowing what they're talking about, hm?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did I say they'd been accepted? No. I said that you have no say in what the terms are. If they accept the terms given, those are the terms they will pay. Have they been accepted? No.

Now how about you learn to read before you accuse people of not knowing what they're talking about, hm?

Well when you say

What's done is done.
in regards to the reps...makes it seem like they are the final reps decided.
Never in history has the losing side !@#$%*ed so much about reps. And now that the side that imposed such reps has lost, it's !@#$%*ing about the reps! Hypocrisy...

Please tell me where Echelon have asked for extortionate amount of reps to this level?

And the high reps IS NOT what this is about. I am asking why Echelon have high reps IN COMPARISON to other alliances that surrendered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And the high reps IS NOT what this is about. I am asking why Echelon have high reps IN COMPARISON to other alliances that surrendered.

I believe this has been answered a few times already. Each front appears to be deciding upon reparation payments on their own. As there is no single entity deciding who has to pay what, different fronts are reaching disproportionate conclusions as to the appropriate amount of reps. To an outsider, although these terms are not unmanageable, it appears that Echelon got the short straw compared to some of their allies. The only advice I have is to take the deal, pay off the reps, and earn back some lost respect in the process. Maybe a few of your old allies who got away with lighter terms will be willing to help you recover some of the extra tech you lost after this is over.

Edited by Penguin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a note, so did half of the alliances now attacking NPO.

It really boils down to this. When NPO was on top NPO dictated the terms. When Karma is on top Karma is dictating the terms. Same car, same direction, different driver.

As time goes on the only thing that changes is the speed of the car (size of the reps). Eventually (we appear to be at, or at the very least on the brink of, this point) there comes a point when the car is going too fast to control. The result is a crash in which everyone gets hurt.

Many many nations/alliances admit that high reps are a reason they hate NPO but then are shocked to think that NPO might actually grow to hate them due to the reps they are attempting to impose.

NPO imposing high reps might make it easier to justify overly high reps being imposed on us, however it doesn't make it any more right.

We impose reps with responsibility, whereas you wielded it like it was the only thing you had. We gave out 80-90% white peace so far when we had the power, how much white peace have you given out?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe this has been answered a few times already. Each front appears to be deciding upon reparation payments on their own. As there is no single entity deciding who has to pay what, different fronts are reaching disproportionate conclusions as to the appropriate amount of reps. To an outsider, although these terms are not unmanageable, it appears that Echelon got the short straw compared to some of their allies. The only advice I have is to take the deal, pay off the reps, and earn back some lost respect in the process. Maybe a few of your old allies who got away with lighter terms will be willing to help you recover some of the extra tech you lost after this is over.

yes, but you see, if we acknowledge the right answer here we might show some semblance of sanity on the OWF and lord knows we can't have that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We impose reps with responsibility, whereas you wielded it like it was the only thing you had. We gave out 80-90% white peace so far when we had the power, how much white peace have you given out?

For the last time..I am not in Echelon o.o

And once again...you just completely missed the point of this topic...and even highlighted it. You have given white peace to alliances that have asked for extortionate amount of reps...while giving Echelon huge amounts of reps without them personally doing much wrong.

As far as the different "fronts" go with Karma having no collective responsibility...how come it has been said that individual peace will not be negotiated for Echelon and collective peace has to be? And considering Echelon is at war with most of the alliances other alliances have been...which have had little to no reps..why do Echelon get the huge rep amounts?

Edited by Otherworld
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the last time..I am not in Echelon o.o

And once again...you just completely missed the point of this topic...and even highlighted it. You have given white peace to alliances that have asked for extortionate amount of reps...while giving Echelon huge amounts of reps without them personally doing much wrong.

As far as the different "fronts" go with Karma having no collective responsibility...how come it has been said that individual peace will not be negotiated for Echelon and collective peace has to be? And considering Echelon is at war with most of the alliances other alliances have been...which have had little to no reps..why do Echelon get the huge rep amounts?

Individual peace will not be negotiated with ALLIANCES, individual peace WILL be negotiated with fronts though. Karma is not a legal entity in any manner, its just a collection of alliances fighting the NPO side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because you have been in the war so long and done lots of damage

Ahahaha. Wow. Guess the people they fought should have thought that whole "damage" thing through before they went to war. "WTF, we wanted an easy tech raid, we didn't sign on to take DAMAGE!!!" Do you really think reps are about damage? MK damaged the hell out of NPO last war... Would you say the reps they got were justified because of the damage?

This was about the petty desire for revenge of a few people. Echelon was at war for so long because of people being incredibly petty, and they got these crap terms because people were being incredibly petty.

"But they accepted them, they have no right to complain!" MK and GR accepted their terms... Were those terms okay because of that?

-Bama

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...