Essenia Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) No. The amount of irony in that response is awesome. Your wit is as sharp as ever, as is your (in)correctness. Edited July 12, 2009 by essenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I have edited in a brief explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groucho Marx Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 <snip> We've lost all we can, we cant really lose much more. That's not true. I'm not up in arms about NPO using Peace Mode as a tactic in a war or suggesting PM nations enter war mode, just pointing out that the NPO could lose a lot more provided those nations weren't in peace mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) Please dont show mercy. Dont even think of it, show negotiation skills, the humility to realize that you may need to tweak your terms, and the graciousness to actually listen to us instead of kicking peace down our throats and shooting us in the head after we sign it. You shouldnt be afraid, actually evaluate our position, were screwed. You will rebuild. Also, as a small point, (just struck my fancy) can I steal your sig? I dont know why personally you have it, but you can definitely guess why I would want it. Sure thing (but give me credit for it. ) Edited July 12, 2009 by Francesca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essenia Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 What that is discussing is the degree to which conflict can be removed from the internal workings of an alliance (see: The Meaning of Freedom), noting that autocratic democracy (the principle on which the Order functions, see: The Sage and the Student) has a very specific historical development. It has nothing to do with what you said. Ie, the only alliance that can be truly free of internal conflict and truly represent of all its members is the NPO. If such an alliance existed, it would be perfectly justifiable to do things others would consider 'underhanded', because in the end the people will benefit from the NPO in a way they can nowhere else. Unfortunately, you wrote this, not me. Also, on a somewhat related note, autocratic democracy is a complete joke. The idea that an alliance with one supreme authority is more democratic than an actual is a fun idea to throw around, but in reality it's nothing more than a shallow justification for the rule of the privileged few over the many (observe NPO where a small and largely unaccountable group makes decisions and then presents them to the rest of the alliance from above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 No.What that is discussing is the degree to which conflict can be removed from the internal workings of an alliance (see: The Meaning of Freedom), noting that autocratic democracy (the principle on which the Order functions, see: The Sage and the Student) has a very specific historical development. It has nothing to do with what you said. You dodge the thrust as if oblivious to it. It is what you say at one level. But the reference is to the exceptionalism. Not the details you are talking about, but rather this deeply held belief that the rules apply to everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essenia Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) It is what you say at one level. But the reference is to the exceptionalism. Not the details you are talking about, but rather this deeply held belief that the rules apply to everyone else. It's not the rules apply to everyone else. It's that only the New Pacific Order recognizes how bad the state of nature is and that the proper way to represent people fairly is to have a single sovereign who represents everyone. And that only in the New Pacific Order can nations achieve their true potential. Of course it's a crock of stuff either way, but that's a more accurate description of how Francoism relates to the actions of NPO. Edited July 12, 2009 by essenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Ie, the only alliance that can be truly free of internal conflict and truly represent of all its members is the NPO. If such an alliance existed, it would be perfectly justifiable to do things others would consider 'underhanded', because in the end the people will benefit from the NPO in a way they can nowhere else. Unfortunately, you wrote this, not me. I'm afraid you have mistaken your imagination for my writings. What I said is exactly what I explained I said; it does not mean any more than that. If you want to make claims about something it helps to actually discuss what it says rather than what you wish it said. It also helps, when discussing a widely written philosophy, to do more than read the wikipedia page carrying its name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essenia Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 I'm afraid you have mistaken your imagination for my writings. What I said is exactly what I explained I said; it does not mean any more than that. If you want to make claims about something it helps to actually discuss what it says rather than what you wish it said. It also helps, when discussing a widely written philosophy, to do more than read the wikipedia page carrying its name. The Wikipedia page? Perhaps you are referring to the numerous CN Wiki articles, written by none other than yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 It's not the rules apply to everyone else. It's that only the New Pacific Order recognizes how bad the state of nature is and that the proper way to represent people fairly is to have a single sovereign who represents everyone. And that only in the New Pacific Order can nations achieve their true potential. Which is why the rules apply to everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 (edited) The Wikipedia page? Perhaps you are referring to the numerous CN Wiki articles, written by none other than yourself. Yes, I was referring to the CN wiki page that you quoted from (that is, the single summary page titled 'Francoism'), which while a good start, hardly provides a comprehensive understanding of what is a very deep subject. Perhaps I am harsh in this judgement of you, but one tends to drift that way when having to deal every few days with a fresh critic who has suddenly discovered the eternal flaw in your logic based on a couple of floating sentences, hearsay and the limits of their imagination. Edited July 12, 2009 by Vladimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 The Wikipedia page? Perhaps you are referring to the numerous CN Wiki articles, written by none other than yourself. Both myself, and the Imperial Officer of Media Affairs Wiki Project team take great umbrage at your unjust and uncalled for granting of the credit for all our hard work to that lazy, slovenly, but dashingly handsome Imperial Counselor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordliam Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Those poor dogs of the Imperium only do what their emperors say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 You will rebuild. Yes we will, six months from now at best, I suspect later. But its longer than that really. It will be six months for us to clear our debt, and pay off our reps. But the rest of CN has been growing during that time, so then theres another four months of just catching up. Do you know how much this world changes in a year? Look back at where CN was only 8 months ago. Completely different world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffasamini Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) The idea that an alliance with one supreme authority is more democratic than an actual is a fun idea to throw around, but in reality it's nothing more than a shallow justification for the rule of the privileged few over the many (observe NPO where a small and largely unaccountable group makes decisions and then presents them to the rest of the alliance from above). Are you actually in the NPO? Yet you can come around saying how we function? We accept every level of player in this game, many only want to log in once a week/day collect taxes, pay bills, and log out. Some want to experience the community of the game, but not actually work to make the alliance run. Does it make sense for us to demand they vote on every decision of the alliance? Dont be silly. The fact that our leaders administrate policy is the same as most every alliance in this game, we just actually say what were doing. If people wish to change how the NPO works, its very easy. All they have to do is get a job, in our meritocracy you can climb very quickly into a prominent position, and commit change. Or, talk to an alliance leader, and have them change something. It happens all the time. Our leaders are VERY accountable for their actions. Just because every specific rule and process we have isnt written into some grotesque charter doesnt mean that an unaccountable group is stomping on my dreams and !@#$ting out commands. And you know that the NPO wouldnt have gotten as far as it had if it did. Do you really think 600-700 people would tolerate being in a junky alliance? I've been in many alliances, and actually, I have found the NPO the easiest to attain influence over policy decisions. I have found many of the alliances I have been in contain a hard knot of maybe 3 triumvirs and 6 or so cronies with alliance roles, and everyone else is just there to chitchat and do whatever the leader tells them to. If you dont like whats going on, you leave and go to an alliance that is closer to your sensibilities. Thats not how the NPO works. Edited July 13, 2009 by muffasamini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesca Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yes we will, six months from now at best, I suspect later. But its longer than that really. It will be six months for us to clear our debt, and pay off our reps. But the rest of CN has been growing during that time, so then theres another four months of just catching up. Do you know how much this world changes in a year? Look back at where CN was only 8 months ago. Completely different world. Pacifica has a reputation for planning in the long term. Or at least, they formerly had this reputation, then when they were #1 for so long and people proclaimed that they had "won the game" they cast aside that modus operandi as it was unnecessary. Now that they have fallen from their former position, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a return to the old ways. If that is the case, it doesn't matter how long it takes, they'll get you eventually. At least, this is what is widely believed by Karma alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Well, the OP now seems rather comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kommissar Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Gravedigging Gravedigging is not allowed anywhere on the forums. Gravedigging is "bumping" old topics which haven't been active for quite some time (four to seven days is standard depending on the nature of the thread and how many pages back it had been pushed before bump). Your warn level will be raised if you are caught doing this. The Suggestion Box forum is a partial exception to this rule. Suggestions/ideas in that forum may be posted in regardless of age PROVIDING that the reviving post contains constructive, on-topic input to the original topic or discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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