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Will NPO's membership revolt?


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Will NPO's membership revolt?  

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You hit the nail on the head Bob.

While NPO has, on occasion, relied on deleting posts in order to maintain internal discipline, more often then not they rely things like internal propaganda, and the installation and preservation of a mob mentality directed by the alliances leadership, and by influential "trusted" members.

And before I'm called crazy, let me remind you of Dilber's little operation designed to discredit Polar within NPO. Who staffed that operation? Government members like UmbraeNoctem and Lord Strider, senior middle management like MariMassa and DarkMistress, and loud mouthed regular members like Doppelganger and Doitzel (who unfortunately for Dilber remained loyal to the idea of one combined Order).

Where did Bob blame the regular members of NPO for anything?

He was merely stating the fact that most NPO members are reliant on internal, and likely very bias, sources of information.

You realize of course that more NPOers read the Tattler than OWF.

They found reading enemy propaganda more pleasant than having to listen to you people.

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You realize of course that more NPOers read the Tattler than OWF.

They found reading enemy propaganda more pleasant than having to listen to you people.

True :):blush: We like reading this, because it's pretty well written and we all try and get in it. Heh. Being serious for a second, the "Tattler" is well written properganda that is good to read, it may be anti-NPO but thought is put into it and it's in-spirit of the game. Many NPO members however get constantly sniped or picked on in threads such as these simply for posting and I believe that is why we see less of them on here, (see bigger post above for further details on this).

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Well, it's a vicious circle, because the reason NPOers tend to be mocked is because they are out of touch and post ridiculous things – and in the past in an aggressive way, too, which hasn't quite worked its way out for some of you. It's like Legion around GW3, where they had an informal ban on OWF presence for the same (perceived) reason; while things ended particularly badly for them because of targeted propaganda posts from the Initiative, withdrawing from the public boards gives your members a huge disconnect and turns public opinion against you.

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I have been wondering, if the NPO government keeps the war up because they wont accept terms presented to them, will there be a point where the membership will revolt?

Voted 'no' because I think too many would like to see it happen. <OOC: the fact is, revolts and internal strife drive people from the game. </OOC. (sense of 'CN community' has been dead for a long time, and both 'sides' are partly at fault).

Edited by Lord Boris
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Hmmm, again there's not much of that. We have atmosphere and we have history, these aren't taught in some kind of harsh way. As with most alliances we focus on building new members up in terms of Infrastructure and the basics and we invite them to read and browse our library. Now realistically as I'm sure the case is in many alliances reading of long tracts of history or thoughts about our place on the planet is not always something a member wants to do.

What I am generally saying is, people are held to account for doing their job. Their job is not to tick boxes of some type of behaviour. We just ask they follow basic rules of politeness, courtesy, not tech raiding and those kind of things. In return they join a large alliance that used to be #1. It was an attractive proposition that allowed rulers who perhaps were quite busy and just wanted to fight a chance to get involved in an Alliance that was always fighting! :)

Those of us who post on (OOC: OWF) do so when we are allowed. But the number one complaint we get from our fellow members is that the reason they don't post even when radio silence is listed is that everyone else makes it so unfriendly for them to post anyway they don't bother. With 700 members on our own communication system (OOC: Forums) we can have intelligent chat and discussion and games and so on without being swamped by often quite frankly nasty posts and sniping.

Sure, some NPO members are arrogant and we do apologise on their behalf if they come here with the wrong attitude. But by far, you see a very small subset because they tend to get what they want from us without coming here, or are discouraged when they do by the villification and retreat back to be among friends.

That's how I see it anyway. I've only been here a year and I don't see too much point in (OOC: the OWF) at least until things settle down.

This is what I think part of the problem is. First, I have not really seen any above average quality in the posting of average NPO members when they do come on the board in comparison to regular members and even during my time in NPO I did not see a higher quality than on their boards.

Furthermore, the posting members do see will be with a strong pro NPO bias. And if this is where they get the majority of their information from, then they would end up with a very biased and misinformed viewpoint.

I have seen this happen allot in low level NPO members postings, they seem very misinformed/uninformed on events.

Edited by raincoat2
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No you will only accept terms that you can pay off easily and quickly. Then you can begin to plan your revenge on us.

Touche'

One of the best answers I have ever read on forum, glad to see that I aint the only one who thinks that.

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Well, it's a vicious circle, because the reason NPOers tend to be mocked is because they are out of touch and post ridiculous things – and in the past in an aggressive way, too, which hasn't quite worked its way out for some of you. It's like Legion around GW3, where they had an informal ban on OWF presence for the same (perceived) reason; while things ended particularly badly for them because of targeted propaganda posts from the Initiative, withdrawing from the public boards gives your members a huge disconnect and turns public opinion against you.

What is it about their opinions that makes it out of touch and ridiculous, Bob?

Is it that they are contrary to your opinions?

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They should, but they won't. The NPO's vice grip on their membership is, well, admirable really. I've never seen so many be directed so directly and surely. Now this means the membership is likely as daft as the leadership, but the point still stands that even if the leadership fouls up terribly the membership will still just look up at them and say, "What now sir?".

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What is it about their opinions that makes it out of touch and ridiculous, Bob?

Is it that they are contrary to your opinions?

No, it's that they are contrary to the established opinion of everyone else on the planet, and half the time they don't even realise. (Posters like Vladimir do, they are trying to change the 'truth' to what they say, but most are not playing that game.)

For example, that Oppe guy who is in the other thread claiming that he 'didn't get the memo' that you guys have lost this war. Literally everybody outside NPO accepts that you have lost.

Edit: ah yes, and another recording of the victim card for you ;)

Edited by Bob Janova
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Well, come back to find Bob has pretty much made my entire argument for me.

Sneaky little jabs to try get across indirectly that I don't know what I am talking about Vlad but surely you would have no idea as you hardly spent any time down with the plebs to have seen what I saw or experienced what I experienced. You were too busy up in the elite crowd in the elite rooms. In fact I would say that many of those at the very top of NPO are actually not that in touch with the Body.

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No, it's that they are contrary to the established opinion of everyone else on the planet, and half the time they don't even realise. (Posters like Vladimir do, they are trying to change the 'truth' to what they say, but most are not playing that game.)

For example, that Oppe guy who is in the other thread claiming that he 'didn't get the memo' that you guys have lost this war. Literally everybody outside NPO accepts that you have lost.

Edit: ah yes, and another recording of the victim card for you ;)

You're not honestly going to take one person's mistake and claim that there's a deliberate portrayal of the war as "not lost", in the face of announcements by leadership that it is? Seriously?

And no, our opinion is not contrary of everyone else on the planet, and frankly, you going around and assuming everybody agrees with you is the height of arrogance and blind hubris. Do you have some kind of memory problem? The boards always display a "mob" mentality against the guys being curb-stomped; it's part of the reason why it is called a curbstomping. It is always when cooler heads and interests prevail that things get a second look.

How many people are going to go against both political expediency and peer pressure and support us now? Only a small number. Yet even the "evil NPO everyone hates" managed to end up with 100m NS of those alleged "haters" to fight on their side. I'm not going to claim all of them did it out of a love for NPO, but to claim that they disagree with everything we've done is rather inaccurate. Especially seeing as the majority of "everyone else on the planet" was part of what "we've done". You saw the same exact thing happen in previous wars, and you've even pointed it out as an example of "NPO oppression"; what's changed your tune so much since then? You wanting to portray the Pacific as a different class of people?

Because that is what your posts have been doing so far. You've separated us from he "normal" planet bob by claiming that we are either ignorant masses, deliberatelly (or unconsciously) targeted by misinformation; or that anyone who is informed is being deceitful for political gain (though how much political gain can come from staying at an isolated and crippled alliance, I do not know). You've pretty much managed to set up an argument like "prove god doesn't exist" to support you're stance of "they're so different from us!": whenever someone posts contradictions to your assumptions, you handwave them away with the excuse of deliberate misinformation; and without having to offer any proof at all, you've managed to come to the conclusion that *we* would have to prove to *you* that we're not lying about what is going on in our own heads - which is impossible.

But of course, persecution always comes with a mentality of abnormality being built up. I'm going to be really amused when a new political reality - one that no longer profits from having the NPO vilified - emerges in several months, and your tune changes. Don't think I won't bring up how you've basically accused me and every other Pacifican who reads these boards of twisting information to suit our "political goals", when you will be trying to cast yourself as a little angel compared to whoever is the "baddie" then.

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It's not just contrary to what everyone else thinks - I would be the first to say that if you agree with everyone else you are probably wrong.

The trouble is you guys seem to believe totally crazy things, demonstrably, objectively untrue. Like I have seen MANY NPO members who obviously believe they are in a defensive war. This is demonstrably, objectively wrong. It isnt a matter of opinion.

Similarly, many seem to think that OV was proven to be spying. In fact no evidence was ever presented that OV was spying. There was clear evidence that Blackwater was spying. Blackwater apparently handed that evidence to the NPO as a love token right before they disbanded and the spies walked away with a nod and a wink from the NPO.

It is obvious that the NPO leadership is busy stuffing the members with lies. It's not surprise if the members tend to believe the leaders, and then parrot those lies, in fact I would be surprised if it were otherwise. However the sad fact is that the more effective they are at this, the worse the situation becomes for the membership.

Fighting an "eternal war" against unjust attack, when one has no other option, is one thing. That would be noble, and draw admiration and praise. Fighting an "eternal war" by *choice*, when your side launched the unjust attack to begin with, when merciful terms have been offered and rejected, entirely because your leaders refuse to admit to the facts of the matter, is not. It's stupid, tragic even.

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It's not just contrary to what everyone else thinks - I would be the first to say that if you agree with everyone else you are probably wrong.

The trouble is you guys seem to believe totally crazy things, demonstrably, objectively untrue. Like I have seen MANY NPO members who obviously believe they are in a defensive war. This is demonstrably, objectively wrong. It isnt a matter of opinion.

Similarly, many seem to think that OV was proven to be spying. In fact no evidence was ever presented that OV was spying. There was clear evidence that Blackwater was spying. Blackwater apparently handed that evidence to the NPO as a love token right before they disbanded and the spies walked away with a nod and a wink from the NPO.

It is obvious that the NPO leadership is busy stuffing the members with lies. It's not surprise if the members tend to believe the leaders, and then parrot those lies, in fact I would be surprised if it were otherwise. However the sad fact is that the more effective they are at this, the worse the situation becomes for the membership.

Fighting an "eternal war" against unjust attack, when one has no other option, is one thing. That would be noble, and draw admiration and praise. Fighting an "eternal war" by *choice*, when your side launched the unjust attack to begin with, when merciful terms have been offered and rejected, entirely because your leaders refuse to admit to the facts of the matter, is not. It's stupid, tragic even.

17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> I got that screenie for you

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> Cheesy

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> about NPO increasing warchest

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> BUT

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> here's the deal

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> ?

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> NPO has an anti-spy feature

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> it's embedded in the image

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> we don't know where

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> so if that screen shot leaks, we lose a spy

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> ok

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> okay

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> just so you know

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> It will remain in OV

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/A...archestleak.jpg

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww301/A...rchest2leak.jpg

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> guard that with your life

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I will

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> promise

[17:28] <sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> <Demeanor[blackstone]> bbl

When a person knowingly and willfully understands the information they are getting and taking, even to the point of being warned of security features in it, and they say, "I will" to guarding it with their life is more than just a casual screenshot link that is dropped in someone's query without them requesting it or having a clue as to what it is.

Edited by Bilrow
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When a person knowingly and willfully understands the information they are getting and taking, even to the point of being warned of security features in it, and they say, "I will" to guarding it with their life is more than just a casual screenshot link that is dropped in someone's query without them requesting it or having a clue as to what it is.

So, tell me, how exactly did you get those logs?

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When a person knowingly and willfully understands the information they are getting and taking, even to the point of being warned of security features in it, and they say, "I will" to guarding it with their life is more than just a casual screenshot link that is dropped in someone's query without them requesting it or having a clue as to what it is.

Expected from someone who has been in NPO longer than their nation says they have...

They didn't do the spying, they are innocent, think twice before you pick on small alliances for your own pleasure.

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So, tell me, how exactly did you get those logs?

From the Declaration of War and also the wiki on Karma War.

Expected from someone who has been in NPO longer than their nation says they have...

They didn't do the spying, they are innocent, think twice before you pick on small alliances for your own pleasure.

March 23, 2008 is when I joined the New Pacific Order, I'm betting my Alliance Seniority is probably less than due to system testings I had to do. Not sure your point though, but thanks for inquiring on how long I've been in the New Pacific Order.

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