kingzog Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) I don't like Nordreich to be honest.... Generally speaking, I'm strongly anti-Nordreich. OK, I'll bite. Since I've heard this a few times from various quarters, I suppose it's time I asked.... Is this some leftover anger from more than two years ago? If so, I suggest you let go of it before you give yourself an ulcer. And what can we do to change that opinion of us? This is a serious question, by the way. Re-write our Charter? We'll have a shiny new one for you to look at in a few days. Please let me know what you think. Not repeat old patterns with respect to the CyberLeft? Done. I have made it quite clear, both publicly and privately, that Nordreich has no aggressive intentions with regard to anyone. We are prepared to work with any alliance to promote our mutual security. One doesn't need a piece of paper to do that. However, for those who believe paper is more important than one's word.... Sign a NAP with our former adversaries on the Left? I offered that before Nordreich re-formed, and was given a very curt "No" in response. I have offered it since, and have received the same reply. Make no mistake. I'm not out to court public opinion on behalf of Nordreich. At the end of the day I don't really care if people dislike the alliance I lead. But if you're going to hold a point of view, try to have a reason backing it up. Now....you see this kid here? He has a reason to hate Nordreich.* But I'm sure he'll get over it eventually. You should, too. * Disclaimer: No parents were actually harmed in the creation of this image. Except for this little boy's father. He was harmed. Edited June 18, 2009 by kingzog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototyoeRuler Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Kingzog, its not necessarily the numerous curb stomping, insulting and constant bullying from NoR/NoV in the past of my previous homes. It's the general attitude that most of Nordreich holds still towards the left. Forgive me for not trusting an alliance that told us numerous times they wish for a peaceful co-existence and turned there back on there word. I believe you were a member during those times Golden Sabers rolled some of my best friends in this game. Call me cautious, defensive, or over reacting but I am glad The International, LSF and others [leftist] have chosen to not even spark up relations with your alliance. The appropriate response should be "Too Little, Too Late". Tension may not be were they use to be relations are far from where they should be. Kingzog you mean well but the stigmas your alliance holds will prevent it from ever having treaty level relations with any of the left. Keep doing what your doing, and I wish you success you know I like you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Kingzog, its not necessarily the numerous curb stomping, insulting and constant bullying from NoR/NoV in the past of my previous homes. Which we have apologized for and have vowed never to repeat. (Although I don't know where your previous homes were. Perhaps some of them had it coming? I won't belabor the point, though.) It's the general attitude that most of Nordreich holds still towards the left. Quite frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. That's your paranoia talking, not our aggression. The reality is that most of Nordreich simply doesn't care enough about the CyberLeft to hold an opinion. Most of the remainder wish you well. Yes, there is a tiny minority who wish you the absolute worst. But even this last group doesn't push for some kind of 'military solution' to our differences. Times have changed. We recognize that. Others would do well to do the same. Forgive me for not trusting an alliance that told us numerous times they wish for a peaceful co-existence and turned there back on there word. I believe you were a member during those times Golden Sabers rolled some of my best friends in this game. As were many who are currently in Nordreich. However, Nordreich is not Norden Verein, and that long-ago decision was made by one individual, who is not in Nordreich's government. Call me cautious, defensive, or over reacting Done, done and done. Although I see nothing wrong with being cautious, frankly. but I am glad The International, LSF and others [leftist] have chosen to not even spark up relations with your alliance. Well, here's the thing....that's not true at all. Our relations are surprisingly good. As noted in my earlier post, we worked together on a security matter that concerned all of us. I visit the International's forum daily as Nordreich's Ambassador. We also have an Ambassador over at the LSF. One of them (can't remember if it was INT or LSF) complained that our forum didn't have a general section where foreign visitors could chat with each other and with Nordreich, so we set one up at their suggestion. So we do have formal relations and they really are quite cordial. I don't know where you're getting your information from or if you're simply making assumptions, but either way you're way off the mark. Now, to be honest, I don't really care about the paper. They won't sign an agreement with us? OK, fine. Couldn't care less. But in the future, when problems pop up -- and no doubt they will -- we will once again work with them to resolve matters without resorting to silly name-calling, threats and so on. The appropriate response should be "Too Little, Too Late". That hasn't been the response at all, actually. My understanding is that the majority would like to put the past behind us, while a very vocal minority simply can't let it go. It could be that I'm being lied to, but what possible reason would there be for that? To spare my feelings? Tension may not be were they use to be relations are far from where they should be. Kingzog you mean well but the stigmas your alliance holds will prevent it from ever having treaty level relations with any of the left. See above. Keep doing what your doing, and I wish you success you know I like you I shall, and thank you. ********** If you or anyone else would like to point to an incident that has occurred since the beginning of May 2009 when Nordreich was re-formed, I would be more than happy to discuss it. But I'm done apologizing for or attempting to explain events that I had no part in organizing, in many cases took no part in at all and which, regardless, occurred (for the most part) two or more years ago. Edited June 18, 2009 by kingzog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 If you're going to resurrect an alliance with the same name, with many of the same people, you can't expect the history of the alliance you resurrect to be forgotten. Considering your past incarnation rolled the reformed ICP to 'put down zombies' or something like that, I am sure you are aware of that. Plenty of people had an extremely well justified dislike of Nordreich (and NoV, which was basically the same thing), and while apologising for those past actions is a start, you can't expect those people to simply wash away history and treat you like an anonymous start-up alliance. The true test will be if you gain power, and how you choose to use it then. It is very easy to be contrite and peace-loving when you have no power to go after anyone. The aggressive history of Nordreich as a part of the Initiative, or of Norden Verein under the protection of the NPO, is not so easily forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) /me puts Bob on "the list" We'll be in touch....later. <--- Hey, the rutabaga thinks it's funny. Seriously, though....stay tuned. Perhaps we'll convince you yet. In this limited world of typing and occasionally-blasted pixels, all any of us has to work with is our word. I take mine rather seriously. (btw....should Grämlins, as a former Continuum member, be held accountable for all the actions of the NPO or TPF that they turned a [public] blind eye toward? You can probably see where I'm going with this. Me? I happen to think that everyone deserves a 'clean slate' until they prove otherwise.) Edited June 18, 2009 by kingzog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEraser Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 ficksed.Hizzy sucks. i agree with this fine gentleman. dear Hizzy, please stop sucking. love, elborrador also congrats on the upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I've been buying tech from NoR and I have to say I'm impressed with their engineering and sense of design. I know Kingzog and he's not one to up and invade another country for the heck of it. If NoR goes to war, there will be a good CB to go with it - of that I am certain. Keep in mind that Kingzog is also a former Vidian. He knows our ways and they have influenced him. Many would say that is a good thing, and I am one of those who say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 mmmmmadd a large poutine on the side and you're my hero. First of all, I am already your hero, as everyone knows, but I will gladly send you a poutine, with a Pepsi and a Jos. Louis thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonewall14 Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Excellent news and o/ NV o/ NoR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azhrei Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Awesome news. Good luck for the future, guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Craig Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 It is unfortunate that some people want to turn this NoR/NV treaty thread into some kind of referendum on the never-ending struggle between the so-called "left" and "right" of Planet Bob. I have little authority within my own alliance to silence these comments, and even less when it comes to the comments of those outside my alliance. This drama began before my nation existed, and in all probability will continue long after the Free Left Coast is relegated to the dustbin of history. Nonetheless, it should be known that the opinions expressed represent those of the individuals who voiced them, not of the alliances mentioned. It is true that the International wishes to have no formal diplomatic relations with Nordreich. This should come as a surprise to no one. Old wounds take time to heal, and it is our right as a sovereign power to determine our own diplomatic course. Anyone who would attempt to portray the absence of a formal treaty as intent for hostilities is a fool. I extend my personal congratulations to Nordreich and Nueva Vida for the solidification of their relationship. My personal conversations with Kingzog and Hizzy have shown them to be honorable leaders of exceptional character. I have every expectation that they will continue to be honorable in their interaction with the "left." -Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Seriously, though....stay tuned. Perhaps we'll convince you yet.In this limited world of typing and occasionally-blasted pixels, all any of us has to work with is our word. I take mine rather seriously. I am a nice guy I am watching you guys with a little suspicion, but I hold no ill will towards you, and I wish you every success in growing your alliance and proving my cynical side wrong. (btw....should Grämlins, as a former Continuum member, be held accountable for all the actions of the NPO or TPF that they turned a [public] blind eye toward? You can probably see where I'm going with this. Me? I happen to think that everyone deserves a 'clean slate' until they prove otherwise.) That's not really the same argument as holding an alliance responsible for the things that that alliance did in the past. But yes, it is fair to hold us accountable for things that we condoned or assisted in; in fact one of the reasons for leaving Continuum was that we felt we were becoming accountable for things we wanted no part in through our connections, even though we didn't participate in the 'worst' of those. So yes, you should be given a 'clean slate', but nor should your past be forgotten. And yes, what the hell is that rutubaga anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyHorse Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Congrats to NOR/NV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Flinders Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Kingzog you mean well but the stigmas your alliance holds will prevent it from ever having treaty level relations with any of the left. Amen to that. We like these Aztec weirdos better anyway. /me buys Hizzy a beer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drai Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 A solid match, NoR is lucky to be in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototyoeRuler Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 It is true that the International wishes to have no formal diplomatic relations with Nordreich. This should come as a surprise to no one. Old wounds take time to heal, and it is our right as a sovereign power to determine our own diplomatic course. Anyone who would attempt to portray the absence of a formal treaty as intent for hostilities is a fool. My dear friend/mentor/!@#$%^& ComradeCraig summarized and portrayed the point I was trying to make nicely. But, I would hate to see NoR take that as an insult. Both alliances aren't naive to there past, nor the many mistakes on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 Congrats on the upgrade my friends. o7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 First of all, I am already your hero, as everyone knows, but I will gladly send you a poutine, with a Pepsi and a Jos. Louis thrown in. Make that two of each, followed up by some ketchup-flavored chips, and this could be the beginning of a be-yoo-tiful friendship. And Craig....it's all a matter of semantics. If my daily presence on your forum does not constitute the establishment of relations between our alliances, I'm really not sure what does. You can say you don't love me, but I know you do! /me commences drunk-dialing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Make that two of each, followed up by some ketchup-flavored chips, and this could be the beginning of a be-yoo-tiful friendship.And Craig....it's all a matter of semantics. If my daily presence on your forum does not constitute the establishment of relations between our alliances, I'm really not sure what does. You can say you don't love me, but I know you do! /me commences drunk-dialing I dunno, I,m gonna have to go with craig on this one. Having a diplomat isnt necessarily a "formal" relatiosnhop but he was probably talking bout a treaty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd73bassman Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Good to see, NV are a solid bunch minus that Hizzy guy No seriously NV are great allies and we are glad to have them as close friends o/NV o/ Hizzy..is that better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemhauser Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Even all this talk of "I hate Nordreich" and "Nordreich is so aggressive" gives the alliance credit, imo. The name 'Nordreich' evokes love, proudness, dislike, hatred and fear. There are numerous alliances out there who will never achieve the emotional evocation that Nordreich does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted June 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Good to see, NV are a solid bunch minus that Hizzy guy No seriously NV are great allies and we are glad to have them as close friends o/NV o/ Hizzy..is that better no. too many spaces between sentences. tighter posts are better. not unlike women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pd73bassman Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 no.too many spaces between sentences. tighter posts are better. not unlike women. lol, I did that on purpose, I knew you would say something. You are getting predictable in your old age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrototyoeRuler Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Even all this talk of "I hate Nordreich" and "Nordreich is so aggressive" gives the alliance credit, imo. The name 'Nordreich' evokes love, proudness, dislike, hatred and fear. There are numerous alliances out there who will never achieve the emotional evocation that Nordreich does. I guess if the whole evoking emotions from players is what your going for - you're doing an excellent job. But usually when alliance provoke to many emotions they get stomped. Much like the whole reformation of the ICP and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemhauser Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I guess if the whole evoking emotions from players is what your going for - you're doing an excellent job. But usually when alliance provoke to many emotions they get stomped. Much like the whole reformation of the ICP and all that jazz. ICP 2.0's destruction, no matter how wrong it was, had more to do with 'lulz' than with emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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