Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Haflinger]

It's hilarious to see all of NPO's allies that fought in this war, former and current, in alliances that are currently under light terms or none at all, complaining about how Karma is just as bad as NPO.

Let's be clear: For some of us at least (like me), that's not what's going on.

My interest is in seeing an end to the war.

[Emperor Stranger]

If NPO is unhappy with the reps, they should focus their "displeasure" on those they are combating and attempt to convince them otherwise instead of using the spokesperson as the target.

I don't believe they are unhappy with the reps as much as the fashion they must pay the reps..

[Roadie]

There's a mechanism, though, for addressing the "<90% dilemma." And really, I would trust the Karma alliances not to be harsh on that at all. Regardless of who wins or loses on the ground, there's always the PR battle. You know, hearts and minds and all that.

btw....TPF know anything about my letter?

You're wrong. There isn't a mechanism for that. Karma very specifically stated they are not willing to chang the terms at this time.

[FireLordZuko]

Heh, you did read my post thoroughly didn't you? Learn to train your vision to see in the shadows and you might have a little bit better understanding as to how the NPO has worked in the past.

I already did

Mary shouldn't even be an IO or in the govt.

Dilber has no actual power in NPO. He is a former emperor. Your theories about him leading NPO behind the shadows are false. Moo and the rest of the IO's lead NPO not Dilber.

Mary is possibly the worst candidate to lead NPO. She has little to no political experience. Bakunin can do a much better job than her

[Charles the Great]

btw....TPF know anything about my letter?

I found one is this it? Q

[Galen Arsenius]

Let's be clear: For some of us at least (like me), that's not what's going on.

My interest is in seeing an end to the war.

That's because you've always been a very classy guy Haf.

And I too want to see an end to this war, but have extremely mixed feelings about Pacifica.

[Sequoia Throne]

I already did

Mary shouldn't even be an IO or in the govt.

Dilber has no actual power in NPO. He is a former emperor. Your theories about him leading NPO behind the shadows are false. Moo and the rest of the IO's lead NPO not Dilber.

Mary is possibly the worst candidate to lead NPO. She has little to no political experience. Bakunin can do a much better job than her

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Seriously.

[Galen Arsenius]

I already did

Mary shouldn't even be an IO or in the govt.

Dilber has no actual power in NPO. He is a former emperor. Your theories about him leading NPO behind the shadows are false. Moo and the rest of the IO's lead NPO not Dilber.

Mary is possibly the worst candidate to lead NPO. She has little to no political experience. Bakunin can do a much better job than her

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. From what I've seen, Mary and Dilber are two very talented people, who are more than qualified to lead the NPO; and that's coming from someone in Polaris.

[Minilla Island]

Some free advice from the smartest and most handsome man around these parts for NPO.

You know, I 've spoken my peace regarding my disagreement with the terms as offered but I must just make one point to the Pacificans who are posting here. All the things you're complaining about are things your own leadership have done to other people in the past. I know that two wrongs don't make a right, but holy crap if anyone's got it coming it's NPO. Your own Emperor made similar demands on nations in peace mode from another alliance once:

Want to know what alliance that was?

The New Polar Order. Yeah. It sucks when the shoe is on the other foot, doesn't it? I am against these gigantic reparations and the pre-terms and all of that, but holy crap if anyone has it coming NPO does. You sold out your own blood for fleeting friendships that turned on you within a year. Well, you sold us out before that too but like suckers we all kept hanging on out of hope that Moo and the other incompetents running NPO would someday come to their senses or do the right thing and hand power over to someone more capable. It never happened and now you are where you are for a reason. So, remembering Polaris and the crimes you've committed against the most righteous and true ally you ever had, let me just tell you to suck it up and do what you have to do to get yourselves peace. You'll be able to brag about it in a year anyway, when you've got your sanction back and the worst of the sellouts who turned their back on you are either a smoking ruin or a fading memory.

There was a time when NPO thought long term. You need to start doing so again, and quickly. Stop wriggling and take your medicine. Also, Moo, you need to fire your entire staff except Dilber and then step down. Beg Dilber to take over. He's about the only competent one left at the top level.

Sponge;

There are some times where I need to question someone's sanity. This is one of them. After all that Pacifica has done to you, after all they did to Polaris, how can you possibly feel that these reps are a bad thing? I agree with you that Moo needs to step down, if for nothing else, to show that Pacifica is willing to reform. These reps should not be difficult with 200+ bank nations. I just don't think that Moo and his IOs have any faith in their people that these reps can be paid. I mean, if there were only 10-20 banks, I could see their umbrage. But, with over 200? I just do not see where your logic is.

[wickedj]

and we're back at 'do something about it'.

Yeah because 120 pages of "NOU!" is really putting shame ot Karma and changing these reps. You shouldnt have raised the white flag so early if you want to help NPO.

Tis simple

[Teriethien]

(giving up trying to catch up...)

You're wrong. There isn't a mechanism for that. Karma very specifically stated they are not willing to chang the terms at this time.

If so then Karma is being very inflexible. Although I think someone posted earlier to say that ther reply was no for now because most

representatives were not online? Eitherway, while I wouldn't expect Karma to change its stipulation regarding peace mode nations exiting, has NPO tried to talk about some practicalities about getting 90% into war mode? Such as clarifying the conditions under which the 2 week count down would start so that other Pacificans getting into war mode won't get beaten up for weeks for nothing, which is what mhawk seemed to be worried about.

Seems to me that all they did was make an counter offer to scrap the entire clause.

[Galen Arsenius]

Sponge;

There are some times where I need to question someone's sanity. This is one of them. After all that Pacifica has done to you, after all they did to Polaris, how can you possibly feel that these reps are a bad thing? I agree with you that Moo needs to step down, if for nothing else, to show that Pacifica is willing to reform. These reps should not be difficult with 200+ bank nations. I just don't think that Moo and his IOs have any faith in their people that these reps can be paid. I mean, if there were only 10-20 banks, I could see their umbrage. But, with over 200? I just do not see where your logic is.

There's being right, and then there's being the little five year old b who complains about everything that *Key word* HAPPENED, and only looks back. Sponge is a very Smart and Handsome man, discrediting him is something I for one won't ever do.

[HeinousOne]

I already did

Mary shouldn't even be an IO or in the govt.

Dilber has no actual power in NPO. He is a former emperor. Your theories about him leading NPO behind the shadows are false. Moo and the rest of the IO's lead NPO not Dilber.

Mary is possibly the worst candidate to lead NPO. She has little to no political experience. Bakunin can do a much better job than her

Mary led an alliance known for its neutrality. What role do you think NPO is going to have to embrace in the future for an indeterminable amount of time? Mary is probably the Only current IO that has any experience at such, the fact that she is in line to be the next emperor just solidifies it. Top that with how quickly NPO is coming to her defense while you slander her and its obvious she could have the will of the people.

As far as Dilber, if you really think that no one listens when Dilber suggests something then I dont know what to tell you. The power of suggestion is immense when those suggested to are likely to listen and follow the suggestion.

Not to mention that the real power in NPO became NPO diplo and while Triyun is the IO of Diplo, Dilber was the overseer of such.

Edited June 14, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Lord of Destruction]

I already did

Mary shouldn't even be an IO or in the govt.

Dilber has no actual power in NPO. He is a former emperor. Your theories about him leading NPO behind the shadows are false. Moo and the rest of the IO's lead NPO not Dilber.

Mary is possibly the worst candidate to lead NPO. She has little to no political experience. Bakunin can do a much better job than her

I could have sworn I said that you shouldn't talk about NPO Leadership when you don't even know the people.

[Lord of Destruction]

Sponge;

There are some times where I need to question someone's sanity. This is one of them. After all that Pacifica has done to you, after all they did to Polaris, how can you possibly feel that these reps are a bad thing? I agree with you that Moo needs to step down, if for nothing else, to show that Pacifica is willing to reform. These reps should not be difficult with 200+ bank nations. I just don't think that Moo and his IOs have any faith in their people that these reps can be paid. I mean, if there were only 10-20 banks, I could see their umbrage. But, with over 200? I just do not see where your logic is.

And who exactly told you that we have over 200 banks? I can tell you right now that is not the truth.

[Aeternos Astramora]

The numbers are harsh and might be too much for a crushed alliance, but what I dislike are the rules that demand hippies come out (especially such a high percentage) and who must pay the reparations.

[Jackalope Despot]

Jackalope Empire has never, nor will we ever, support war-mode provisions in peace negotiations.

Nor do we support flippin' humongous rep amounts.

Don't get me wrong, we have no problem with watching NPO get creamed. But seriously people...

[Nintenderek]

I already did

Mary shouldn't even be an IO or in the govt.

Dilber has no actual power in NPO. He is a former emperor. Your theories about him leading NPO behind the shadows are false. Moo and the rest of the IO's lead NPO not Dilber.

Mary is possibly the worst candidate to lead NPO. She has little to no political experience. Bakunin can do a much better job than her

Mary, former president of the GPA, has no political experience? I mean, I don't think she should be emperor, but saying she has no experience is absurd.

Also, did Kingzog ever get his damn letter?

I had to go do the RL thing for a bit and don't feel like reading the last 30 pages to find out.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Nintenderek

[Gerald Meanĕ]

And thus has it been made so that the cycle of the cyberverse shall continue again.

[Roadie]

(giving up trying to catch up...)

If so then Karma is being very inflexible. Although I think someone posted earlier to say that ther reply was no for now because most

representatives were not online? Eitherway, while I wouldn't expect Karma to change its stipulation regarding peace mode nations exiting, has NPO tried to talk about some practicalities about getting 90% into war mode? Such as clarifying the conditions under which the 2 week count down would start so that other Pacificans getting into war mode won't get beaten up for weeks for nothing, which is what mhawk seemed to be worried about.

Seems to me that all they did was make an counter offer to scrap the entire clause.

NPO has covered the difficulties in getting to 90%.

I can't speak to why Karma stated they were not willing to move on those terms.

[Teriethien]

Mary, former president of the GPA, has no political experience? I mean, I don't think she should be emperor, but saying she has no experience is absurd.

Also, did Kingzog ever get his damn letter?

I had to go do the RL thing for a bit and don't feel like reading the last 30 pages to find out.

Does this count?

Dear Zog,

You're not on a ZI/PZI/EZI/LMNOPZI list.

Signed,

LoD, Special Envoy

but I liked the drawing on the one unofficial one better

[Smooth]

It's hilarious to see all of NPO's allies that fought in this war, former and current, in alliances that are currently under light terms or none at all, complaining about how Karma is just as bad as NPO.

Your intelligence. It overwhelms me. Honestly, people, every other alliance we have given peace has been given quite reasonable and light terms. Do you know why? They weren't the ones holding the strings. They weren't the ones dishing out death sentences to alliances and nations alike. That is NPO. And frankly, they have the money to pay for it.

The calculations Cortath gave to us last night:

1) Assumed that all of our attacks on them will be 100% effective. I disagree.

2) Assumed that Pacificans will just be flocking for the door at the conclusion of the war. From reading this thread, I find that unlikely.

3) Assumed that the entirety of Pacifica's armies are in some sort of economic distress. We have spied on their nations. They have cash and warchests.

4) Assumed that somehow the massive monetary holdings of their banks will just disappear in these two weeks. I doubt that. Plenty of my comrades still have money to fight this war and give out aid even this, what, six weeks into it?

5) Assumed that we would not follow the terms, which, explicitly state all reparations amounts can be lowered at the end of the two weeks of war, if the victorious parties deem that Pacifica will not be able to pay them. (That's a paraphrase. I'm not looking at them right at this exact moment.)

6) Assumed that their banks and nations with good cash reserves will not be able to get nations close to 1,000 technology above it after the war in order to help pay the reparations

7) Assumed that all of their collective remaining slots will not be able to help out their fallen comrades.

Pacifica, we are not out to destroy you. We have said this countless times in public and at the negotiating table. Take the damn terms. If after the two weeks you can't pay we'll honestly look into it. If we see that you are struggling to pay it, we'll look into it. However, at this point in time, frankly, we are the ones with the track-record that is able to be trusted. You have pulled the wool over too many people's eyes for us to take the bait. Just take the terms and the war will be over.

Seriously.

And all of you, come on, it has been 120 some pages already. Shut up. We all know who believes what, and we all know we will not be changing anybodies minds. Let's knock it off already.

-Smooth

Edited June 14, 2009 by Smooth

[Minilla Island]

There's being right, and then there's being the little five year old b who complains about everything that *Key word* HAPPENED, and only looks back. Sponge is a very Smart and Handsome man, discrediting him is something I for one won't ever do.

Who's discrediting him? Sponge got a: driven from his Alliance, b: Hunted down like an animal, and c: forced to re-roll, and d: locked into Vox Populi, and e: forced to having to form his own Alliance instead of going back to Polaris, where he probably would have received a welcome the equivalent of Christ's Second Coming (Yes, I know he is still a member as Imperator, but did he have to form The Liquor Cabinet?).

The truth of the matter is that the terms are fitting for the past injustices. Period, end. And, I don't care if the poster is the reigning Mr. Universe or the King of MENSA. If I feel that you are wrong, I will point it out.

[FireLordZuko]

Mary led an alliance known for its neutrality. What role do you think NPO is going to have to embrace in the future for an indeterminable amount of time? Mary is probably the Only current IO that has any experience at such, the fact that she is in line to be the next emperor just solidifies it. Top that with how quickly NPO is coming to her defense while you slander her and its obvious she could have the will of the people.

As far as Dilber, if you really think that no one listens when Dilber suggests something then I dont know what to tell you. The power of suggestion is immense when those suggested to are likely to listen and follow the suggestion.

Not to mention that the real power in NPO became NPO diplo and while Triyun is the IO of Diplo, Dilber was the overseer of such.

Key word is Neutral

You just ruined your argument there

What makes you think a president of a former neutral alliance is going to lead the most renown alliance in Cybernations

Dilber does have power but he can merely suggest and not enforce. If Dilber had any real power then this war wouldn't have happened in the first place

Dilber and Bakunin are much more capable of leading this because they have been in NPO longer and they have the experience

[NationReaper]

Bad terms are bad.

I honestly hope NPO denies all terms and just pulls a FAN and becomes a thorn in your side