Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[muffasamini]

Okay, and? For the vaunted NPO masses, who are 100% active and make sure to check their inboxes constantly for love letters from their Emperor, this shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, right?

Nope, the masses arent 100% active, and it would take considerably more than 5 minutes. Try eternity. Part of the success of the NPO is that we allow members to play this game at any activity level they desire, whether they just want to log in once a week and have fun, or get fully involved in world politics. You cant honestly say we have every NPO member ready, active, and compliant to do Moo's whims in "5 minutes."

Your replying with nothing but speculation and hate. And that why yall continue to refuse perfectly rational and even deliciously vindictive ways to end this war.

[Sulmar]

Its not like the karma alliances chose to fight; its NPO that forced us to fight

Yeah, all the karma alliances wanted was peace! By God, what was NPO thinking, they would have been fine if they didn't start a war!

[Roadie]

Okay, and? For the vaunted NPO masses, who are 100% active and make sure to check their inboxes constantly for love letters from their Emperor, this shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, right?

Smartarsery aside, it really is the major sticking point. They're not just pretending it's a problem. It genuinely is.

[Carter]

Despite the giant amounts of spin in the OP the basic point is right. Those reps are very high and the counter offer was good. Not accepting it tells me you most likely did not want peace going in. If that was the case you should not have offered peace.

Ding ding ding, this sums up my thoughts completely.

Also this:

The whole lot of you are just plain pathetic, I do not support your actions, I do not condone them and I certainly will not celebrate this war any time soon. Kill the NPO, do whatever it is you set out to do, but do not ever pretend this is about the moral high ground, do not pretend this is great justice or anything other than great revenge for every slight on your alliance, every slight on your previous alliance or your previous nation. BTW, I have no issues with revenge, just be honest about it.

If you realize nothing at all from this conflict, realize that beating people's faces in only creates a resolve and that some people have a determination that exceeds your own. The NPO is certainly well established in this category, they didn't get to #1 by luck, they didn't get to #1 again by luck and they wont get there yet again by luck. Think about what you are trying to achieve and achieve it and stop pretending to be something you are not. And stop thinking you will break the will of the New Pacific Order with your nonsense.

Now, I usually like writing my own !@#$, but I couldn't of explained it any better than this.

[Krack]

After 34 pages, the lesson of this thread is that Pacifica and friends have not yet been sufficiently humbled and that the enmity and rancor displayed by their members (who have, for the most part, been gagged for the better part of the last two months) should be a warning that letting them off with lesser terms will be seen as foolishness, not kindness; and likely be answered with hostility and aggression as soon as they are capable of it.

[Shadow Khan]

Here you go, Moo:

Call somebody who cares.

Best post of the thread

The same GATO that is currently allied to the New Pacific Order, and the same GATO that'd probably enjoy it if you were to stop using their name as a rallying point.

I seem to recall NPO constantly using ONOS as a rallying point back in GWIII, so no I imagine that we won't stop bringing up the bs GATO war and yearlong viceroyship. Honestly, I'm getting sick of the mentality you guys have where if you use a tactic or diplomatic maneuver it's a great strategy but when it's done to you it's an atrocity.

[Daimos]

So in the past the NPO attacked an alliance that has shown mercy. It took all these years for the CN community to say “foul”? What kind of community that would let this happened?

Maybe it’s because most really did not mind of the alliance that was being curb stomp by the NPO. Maybe no one cared that much to oppose them. The CN community stood by and watched someone being mugged. You let it happen, you let it foster, you created a monster. You need to share the blame and not put it solely to the NPO.

[Alterego]

Either do something about it or shut up indeed.

No I think I'll keep talking. Best of luck shutting me up

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=178892

[LoveaLot]

Blah blah.... Who headed gov at that time?

Oh yeah, you're sleeping with him.

What?

[mhawk]

Reps not payable: Math done by others already in this thread, also NPO made its' own decision not get come out of hippy mode couple of weeks back, could have shortened the war and losses

Unending war carried out by NPO: FAN

Disbanded due to NPO: NAAC, LUE, GOONS, Genmay etc

I think the above covers just about every possible outcome of the war, whichever scenario plays out, Karma certainly got NPO real good.

Unending war carried out by NPO : its over

Disbanded due to NPO, : NPO never fought goons, or genmay

Reps math is faulty as there is an unknown variable given in the 90% clause.

[PrideAssassin]

You know, I've held back from answering you because you obviously have little idea of what's going or how things work and out of respect for your alliance. You're new so I decided not to try and pick on your ignorance. If you're really going to try this nonsense you're only going to make it so people view you as completely irrelevant more and more.

First, in a previous post you said you've never heard of EZI. I'll give you one example right now. Johnathon Brookbank. If you find this insufficient I invite anyone from NPO to claim they've never used EZI.

Second, you are the same person who was hugging a dictionary trying to prove Karma was a bloc. Why didn't you provide a better source giving the origin of the word "bloc" and all related academic works analyzing that word/subject in that event or are you going to try and use a dictionary to prove you're not a hypocrite? If you can't believe the basic history of cybernations through an accepted source, then you honestly have no room to talk about anything.

Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if you actually knew what I was responding to when you quoted me.

Karma IS a bloc. It's bloc'ier than a lego person Tetris convention.

Johnathan Brookbank.... Okay... How is that EZI?

He rerolled under the same name?

(As far as I know)

Is it that difficult to find him?

Yo, use a different name. Simple.

Any other cases? Even ol' Johnny said Karma took things a step too far, and you ("Karma") publicly chastised him for it, and wished (publicly) that they'd not defended him. Wow.

I appreciate your efforts to help keep me educated, but you don't have to be a snob about it.

[Cataduanes]

So in the past the NPO attacked an alliance that has shown mercy. It took all these years for the CN community to say “foul”? What kind of community that would let this happened?

Maybe it’s because most really did not mind of the alliance that was being curb stomp by the NPO. Maybe no one cared that much to oppose them. The CN community stood by and watched someone being mugged. You let it happen, you let it foster, you created a monster. You need to share the blame and not put it solely to the NPO.

You talk as if everyone in Karma alliances was complicit in 'Pax Pacifica', more than a few of us have felt the jackboot on our heads more than once.

[Krack]

So in the past the NPO attacked an alliance that has shown mercy. It took all these years for the CN community to say “foul”? What kind of community that would let this happened?

Maybe it’s because most really did not mind of the alliance that was being curb stomp by the NPO. Maybe no one cared that much to oppose them. The CN community stood by and watched someone being mugged. You let it happen, you let it foster, you created a monster. You need to share the blame and not put it solely to the NPO.

"You let us be tyrants and bullies! It's really your fault!"

See my previous comment above.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Krack

[Denniswerf]

Yeah, all the karma alliances wanted was peace! By God, what was NPO thinking, they would have been fine if they didn't start a war!

This game is a politic simulator, although of course lots of people play it for the sake of warfare. In order to protect the weaker ones, action against the NPO had to be taken

No I think I'll keep talking. Best of luck shutting me up

Change your AA and I will be of your service

[PrideAssassin]

What?

Pssst Karma kiddies are sleeping with Mr. Moldavi.

You know director of this GW I you keep talking about?

LMAO @ "Karma"

Weak.

[Wa Mu]

So in the past the NPO attacked an alliance that has shown mercy. It took all these years for the CN community to say “foul”? What kind of community that would let this happened?

Maybe it’s because most really did not mind of the alliance that was being curb stomp by the NPO. Maybe no one cared that much to oppose them. The CN community stood by and watched someone being mugged. You let it happen, you let it foster, you created a monster. You need to share the blame and not put it solely to the NPO.

Aye, it is a shame isn't it? But now, the world must be shown so atrocities brought about by that kind of mentality never appear again. That way, actions like those of Pacifica never happen in the rest of our life time.

[enderland]

My, my my, what a thread. Naturally I have some thoughts to offer on the matter.

First is regarding -

During the conflict with the Global Alliance Treaty Organization, the New Pacific Order declared that those GATO nations in peace mode would be subjected to permanent ZI. Though this decree was never enforced, and no GATO nation was ever so subjected, we do wish to state that this decree was a mistake and it was wrong. We realize that nations probably rerolled because of this, and we apologize to them and to GATO in general for this action.

Of course you didn't, because they all left peace mode to be subjected to war and were therefore not subjected to perma ZI. Nice PR trick -

"We'll kill you if you don't let us destroy you!"

"Guess we'll be destroyed..."

"We're not so bad, we didn't kill anyone!"

Hey Moo, remember when you asked TDSM8 to pay more reps than we had? Remember when you changing the terms and holding us demilitarized for 6 months killed our alliance? Remember when you asked Athens for 6/7 of their tech? Remember when you held GATO in a viceroy for a year? Remember when you perma warred FAN? Remember all the people you forced out of this game? Remember all the homes you destroyed? Shut the $%&@ up. You are playing a pity boat when you deserve none. Im so sick of you guys trying to act like you deserve any better than this.

I think that this post is just as relevant as everyone else that has quoted it.

Your belief that two weeks of war will destroy your economic base when many of those nations have huge warchests and they will keep all their economic improvements and wonders shows your ignorance of economics. Most of those nations would be able to instantly rebuild back to 4-5K infra and be in a position to still bank. It would just knock them down from the upper to the mid ranks.

Also the reps are comparable to the terms you gave C&G alliances in a war where we were only were defending allies. 82,000 tech scaled up to your membership count is about 400,000 tech. Athens had to pay 7/8ths of the tech it had on hand. You'd also get to keep all your wonders, a luxury you didn't afford us, again, for only defending our allies against a bogus attack.

Azaghul, stop using logic These terms would be easily payable. Perhaps the NPO simply has no idea what it actually is like to massively rebuild from a war, or to use proper nation building techniques, so I'll let you in on a hint - if a nation has even 50M left after a war they can easily go to 3999 infra. Most of your nations have huge amounts of wonders and such. Rebuilding to the point where you can pay reps would be trivial, unless your alliance simply has such inadequate internal programs to rebuild. Then again, looking at GATO's rebuilding for over a year, I guess I can see why NPO would be worried....

FAN as an alliance never came out and warred (for the particular conflict you appear to be referring to) with NPO, so to say they had 2 years of war with NPO is not accurate.

Lmao. Irony right here. Just plain irony. Why the hell would they have come out and warred you considering that you guys @#%#ing stabbed them in the back after the first time. By this same token NPO has not even come out and warred.

You mean the GATO that paid no reps, and had to be given free money by the order immediately after the war to get them out of bill-lock?

Or the GATO that got mutually profitable tech-deals that are both easy to pull off and good for the nations involved?

Or the GATO that got even more than that in retirement bonuses?

You mean the same GATO that had every one of its nations beaten into a pulp?

You mean the same GATO that NPO forced into tech deals for somewhere in the neighborhood of a year?

You mean the same GATO that was forced under a viceroy against their wishes?

Would any on the 'Karma' side be willing to discuss why the Order's counteroffer (of more cash but less restrictions on who sends it, and less bombing prior to paying) was rejected?

Why should a bunch of n00b nations be responsible for paying for the NPO's mistakes.

That term makes perfect sense to me: the nations in NPO that are more established (ie the larger ones) are the ones that have supported NPO in the past and are the ones that should attone for the mistakes and atrocities that the alliance has committed.

then there is this gem:

After doing some background checks, we found that 22 of those nations were in fact ghosts flying the AA without actual membership, with membership being determined by a matching nation link in our forum's member nation roster.

Additionally, a sizable chunk of 36-56 of those nations were banks. (exact number omitted for security reasons)

You have such a crappy ghost busting program that you had 22 nations that were ghosting your AA and didn't even know!?

The fact that you still cling to the antiquated notion of "banks" as a military tactic is a one example (of many) for why the NPO was militarily impotent in this war.

Welcome to 2009.

because NPO has to lose their sanction in order for Karma to be happy.

NPO has to lose for Karma to be happy. Given their general arrogance and pride I doubt even paying this amount of reps would cause them to feel like they lost to be honest.

-------------------------------------

To NPO in general - I had sympathy for you guys in this, I can understand that it would be frustrating to try to negotiate with many alliances who were not coordinating or whatnot. I had talked with quite a few of you amicably on IRC and was beginning to think "hey maybe you aren't so bad."

Then I strolled over to your forums. The absolute arrogance and blatant threatening and disrespect towards members viewable in the public areas of your forum only lead me to wonder what lies you are feeding them in the private areas. No wonder "morale is high" - anyone who appears to express any dissident opinions gets ganged up against by IOs and gov. I can't imagine what it'd be like to try to bring up something that is inherently against the prevailing opinion in NPO. Simply wondering how surrendering works gets a handful of IOs questioning your loyalty.

Then there are the comments in embassies. Wow, just wow. Such blatant disrespect and trolling towards people in the comfort of your own home - again, what is visible in the public area. I can't imagine how you guys treat diplomacy, oh wait I can, you have a "this is what is going to happen deal with it" attitude. Seeing the logs for surrender discussions in the past would be quite interesting.

The double standards are blatant for respect. You guys preach "we're nice, don't hurt us!" on one hand then are absolute @#%#s on the other. Fortunately I made the trip to your forums to see this and as a result have no sympathy for the path you have chosen.

I no longer care what happens to your alliance. It makes me smile you have chosen the way of FAN as somehow, I think it's fitting. It's just as fitting as the more power you try to hold over what happens to you the less you will have. Your alliance has, and apparently never will, been able to admit that you are wrong or that someone else has control over the situation. It got you to where you are now and will likely keep you there. This war won't be won until NPO admits defeat - something that reading the OP clearly indicates has not happened.

ooc: you remind me of the eye of sauron as it falls from the tower, frantically searching for ways to keep power. Well I've got news for you - sometimes you lose. You lost. Pretending to win by not accepting peace ain't going to change it.

Good riddance. If anyone on this front needs aid let me know and I will be more than willing to fund your war to the best of my abilities. I'll be more than happy to help.

[Zombie Glaucon]

Don't forget, the illustrious Sponge has shown us all that the disbandment of an alliance is a choice upon the alliance, and not at the whim of an attacker. I would think the same applies to an individual nation. I don't think NPO can make anyone do anything regarding their nation if they don't want to. Granted, they might not have as much fun but that doesn't mean they have to do what the NPO says.

So I don't get it: Are you saying you don't blame Sponge for any of the things the masses generally blame him for, or do you only feel that way in this thread where it's rhetorically convenient?

[mhawk]

After 34 pages, the lesson of this thread is that Pacifica and friends have not yet been sufficiently humbled and that the enmity and rancor displayed by their members (who have, for the most part, been gagged for the better part of the last two months) should be a warning that letting them off with lesser terms will be seen as foolishness, not kindness; and likely be answered with hostility and aggression as soon as they are capable of it.

There is a difference between being humble and admitting mistakes (as was done in the op) and submitting to any willy nilly desire of those that wish nothing but your destruction.

[enderland]

Unending war carried out by NPO : its over

Ah, so a two year war is ok?

[enderland]

There is a difference between being humble and admitting mistakes (as was done in the op) and submitting to any willy nilly desire of those that wish nothing but your destruction.

I do not believe for a second that they are honestly admitting mistakes.

I guess that's what happens when you preach arrogance for years, it makes it rather hard to accept the fact that you might be humble (especially given the fact that NPO will not accept terms).

[Darth Sexy]

Wow, NPO is still playing itself off as a victim here. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that the alliances who fought with NPO in the past/in this war didn't get terms this harsh. Many of them deserved it.

[New Frontier]

You all disgust me.

[Baden-Württemberg]

I love these eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth philosophies. Actually we are all civilized rulers on this planet but when it comes to the New Pacific Order we act driven by our hate and our emotions. I don't see a peaceful solution for this war anytime soon, so in the end, this will end up being an eternal war, and you will become what you accuse them of.

[mhawk]

Ah, so a two year war is ok?

It is not okay and we worked hard to end it. But to say it is unending is not true as it is over.