Zeta Defender Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 OOC: Forcing anyone to do anything with RL property as a term for IG is against ToS. Tell Karma this as this was one term they tried and talked about in pre-planning and it is mentions in a few threads on the forums here by Karma. Also after all the posts, finding it is a needle in a haystack and I would rather go drink than do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Oh, you mean like the exact thing that happened in GW1? Because that worked out well in the end, didn't it? *Shrugs* Maybe NPO will recover from this, maybe not. But what's more important for the KARMA coalition is how these alliances will be viewed by the outside forces for time eternal. Those who have not felt the lash of NPO's aggression, and I'd say that number is in the majority, will view the actions of the KARMA alliances with the same disdain as KARMA saw NPO. I'm not saying NPO should be let off scot free, but by accepting the counter offer made by them will not only net a tremendous amount of money and tech, but also end the war now so KARMA nations can begin to rebuild and it forever cements in history these alliances as being better and taking the high road. Napoleon ~ "The moral is to the material as three is to one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Defender Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Answer my question.What do these terms have to do with me? Nothing Also hello Tyga. Remind me that I owe you a beer the next time you come into #nsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I would like for it to be known that, had I not worked to assemble surrender terms in the first place, that NPO would be in a state of indefinite war from a significant subset of the alliances attacking them. I'm well aware that these terms are harsh, as harsh as any that have ever been given. I wish I had the authority to negotiate all on my own, so that we could arrive at a set of terms that was acceptable to everyone. But I don't. I am but one leader of 18 alliances that are engaged with NPO, and the wishes of the many, not the one, rule the day. I have been a mouthpiece, and a negotiator, and but one leader of 18 sovereign alliances, all of whom have had their own demands, their own wishes, and their own ideas.For the NPO to pin the blame on me for this situation or these terms is the height of foolishness. I have negotiated DOWN from some of the original demands. Three weeks of additional war became two weeks, for instance. 50,000 minimum tech per month became 25,000, to allow for increased rebuilding aid. Do you all even have any idea of how hard it is to get so many different alliances to agree to ANYTHING? Do you imagine that I personally stipulated all these terms? Have you seen the terms I gave the GGA, which started the noCB war that ravaged my alliance and those of my friends? Where was my excessive vindictiveness there? Where was my hate? NPO, the choice of what happens to you next is quite literally in your hands. I have so little control over it that it barely matters. All you have done is publically call out someone who acted as a voice of moderation and reason in the enemy camp. Your public rejection of our consensus terms has been noted. They remain available for you to accept. Oh, and for anyone wondering, we crunched the numbers as to whether NPO could pull of these terms or not. We estimate it would take 3-4 months for NPO to send the reps, while allowing for rebuilding. This is based on the experience of multiple government officials that have had to organize reparations like these. There is also a clause in their terms which guarantees them 1 slot of rebuilding aid for every slot of reps, I didn't see that mentioned here. I worked to make these terms as good as I could, NPO. And you decide to bash me on the OWF. You know where to find us when you decide that attempting to garner sympathy on the OWF is less effective than sitting down and working with us. -Londo Probably shouldn't brag about things you are not proud of having done. I seem to recall you saying you thought it was fitting the terms you were working out and this was part of your revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George the Great Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) A Message Regarding Peace Mode For everything there is a season,And a time for every matter under heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; A time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; A time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; A time to mourn, and a time to dance; A time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together; A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing; A time to seek, and a time to lose; A time to keep, and a time to throw away; A time to tear, and a time to sew; A time to keep silence, and a time to speak; A time to love, and a time to hate, A time for war, and a time for peace. It has come to my attention that there are members of the Red Menace who are not embracing the true season that is at hand; barbecue season. This disturbs me deeply, for we have given all of the Red Menace the chance to truly be free and be overrun with the fun in the sun within the souls of our storm troopers as well as within their own. I refuse to allow the members of the Red Menace to miss the greatest barbecue in their lives; the barbecue that will set them free. (BYOB) Today is the last day of the second week of June, and the vacationing Karmic Military Analysts have scribed the name of every NPO nation in peace mode in the sand on the beach. On June 12th, they shall check their list if it's still there, and any nation still in peace mode shall only know peace or barbecue. Their nations shall become a north-east Russian island, cut off from the world of (baseball card) trade, (sexual) relations and life(vests). No system shall harbor them under penalty of being seasoned and grilled. No Sweet Baby Ray's shall be given under penalty of spit-roasting. Long after the Red Menace is put down, those that refused to fight will continue to struggle in this world. Be it Ordered this 5th day of June, 2008 George the Frickin’ !@#$% New Karmic Order, new ruiners of your game since April Karmic Roflcopters overtaking yet another Red Menace village in a feeble attempt to escape justice. Remind me to apologize for this sarcastic rendition of a real message a few years from now when we start an aggressive war in the middle of peace discussions knowing full well the magnitude of the war that will follow, and when we do the same exact thing. Edited June 13, 2009 by George the Great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEraser Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Answer my question.What do these terms have to do with me? Tyga = The New Random )): Tyga )): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbacher Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Total Money: $1,113,857,551Total Money: $1,267,529,738 Total Money: $1,699,932,018 Total Money: $1,136,036,247 Total Money: $1,711,792,074 Total Money: $1,421,839,591 Total Money: $1,244,063,943 Total Money: $1,938,438,773 Total Money: $1,043,641,046 Total Money: $1,930,090,228 Total Money: $1,194,043,392 Total Money: $2,328,024,511 Total Money: $1,171,050,808 Total Money: $1,176,646,437 Total Money: $1,308,527,513 Total Money: $1,267,529,738 Total Money: $1,100,891,822 Total Money: $1,346,086,976 . Clearly the NPO can't afford to pay off reps. [/sarcasm] OMG you are so cool, posting like 20 numbers and all. OK, so how much can those nations you put up send out in aid in a month? That doesn't seem like 350+ 1 billion $ warchests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireLordZuko Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 I am laughing so hard right now because of this pity party Trotsky is trying to throw yet no one is buying itYour beloved pacifica wouldn't be in this mess had Trotsky not coup out Ivan Moldavi. Your alliance has befriended and then betrayed many alliances in this game. I wont be satisfied until I see this alliance unsanctioned and given worse treatment than they did to GATO and FAN. Your rule over CN is over Trotsky and you brought yourself to your own demise Hail Karma!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrownso Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Congratulations on cherry-picking logs from rather lengthy conversations. The above was stated after days of negotiations, where Karma had already been gracious enough to temper and adjust the original terms. We have reached the point where will not alter the surrender agreement any further. Which is why this thread is so amusing; Londo has been fair, balanced and conciliatory towards Pacifica, offering alternatives to the original terms (which weren't devised by Londo or Athens, before you restart your smear campaign against them). Moo has once again displayed his incompetence and poor judgement by slapping the face of one of those people most interested in helping them. Peace terms are determined by the victors, not by the belligerents that attacked a small alliance without justification and have been appropriately beaten down. So what were the original reps demanded by Karma? I'm sure everyone is dying to know. Or will they remain unknown/ethereal so you can change it at will, like the "crimes" of NPO. If Karma is essentially of one mind on punishing NPO, I would have thought they would have sat down and come up with a clear list of grievances if only for the P.R. benefits that a clear reasoned list would provide. But that won't be answered so I guess I'm basically talking to myself with every post. Or i managed to get added to ignore status for several people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You do realize this is exactly what happened after WWI and WWII to Germany its quite insane to think that they will take these terms sitting down you might be looking at another war here if you make the terms a tad bit lighter. We might be looking at a war the likes the CN world has never seen and some alliances mainly the ones that came up with the terms might be displeased with the result. But what do I know I've only had to make a nation 3 times already and I did survive through a lot of the major wars as an NPO and a Legion (back when they were sanctioned and or respected) member.The point here is History repeats itself and sometimes it takes one motivated enough person(s) to re-write it You do realise that comparing the Cyberverse to your basic understanding of world history is ridiculous, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Answer my question.What do these terms have to do with me? You seem to be a major advocate of Karma and its actions. When I see the likes of Athens and MK I do think of STA as well and the vocal leader of STA. Perhaps I made the wrong assumption but it's a valid one nonetheless. I believe you do support these terms and advocate them as Revanche said "fair and reasonable." If that's the case, then yes you are just as much at fault in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hang in there NPO, TPF is by your side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Seriously,SHUT UP.I know for a fact you've been asked to behave yourself.The cursing does nothing to further our cause. Come on now. After seeing those numbers I might need a drink to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Answer my question.What do these terms have to do with me? Absolutely everything Bizzarro-Moo )): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrator Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 1: Actually it has been modifies in some place including the addition of the High Court so go read closer. What's a modifies ? And they involved with the High Court? Did you install them after your war with GATO or after your war with the English language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruthenia Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 You do know that alliances in your coalition have imposed Viceroys before, right? Which alliances? And would you accept a viceroy since apparently the one you imposed on GATO was so well received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 (edited) Peace terms are determined by the victors, not by the belligerents that attacked a small alliance without justification and have been appropriately beaten down. Spying, aiding spies and growing them. Conspiring and plotting wars, is not justification? No the fact is there is no level of any in game action to which you would consider as justification if it came from NPO. You've wanted your revenge, you got it now. Edited June 13, 2009 by mhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Luckily 300k of 450k tech isnt even 3/4, which by proportion is much lighter than what was stolen from Athens and approved by your alliance. Then again, TPF signed off on a lot of crimes back then with your bloody pens. Could you bring me up to speed on those terms. In addition to the tech, what where the cash terms from Athens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Defender Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Actually, it was brought up several times during the end of negotiations tonight, from what I saw when I came home, that very few alliances had representatives on right now, and they couldn't make a decision right now. NPO was told that the counter-offer was rejected for now, and that it probably wouldn't be accepted down the line either, but maybe.And moreover to the rest of NPO and their allies, way to flame Londo. The person that was being the nicest out of everyone to you guys. Smart move. If that is nice I want to see hate. Also I look that mess Londo made with GGA. As I don't want to beat a dead horse or cause anyone else greef, i will end here by saying when a government loses over half their leaders, something is not right. As for maybe, everyone that is come for no but we just want to string you on. I have seen and used it enough and have had it used on me in the other world that sometimes we spend more time here verses there. But that also being stated, why was half of Karma offline during negotiations, if it is posted in advance on the Karma forum you got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 More numbers:7 bill/ 3mill = 2,333 slots. 2,333 slots / 6 months = ~400 slots. 400 slots/3cycles/6 slots = 23 nations. I know for a fact that NPO has more nations with 500 mill+ warchests in peace mode than that. Coupled with my stats from earlier: 300,000tech is 6000 slots of 50 tech. 6,000/6months/3cycles per month/6slots= 56 nations. Out of 180 that meet the criteria as of this moment. The idea that these reps aren't payable even if all of their nations were ZI'd is simply ignorant. You don't get it do you? The problem is that the war part will drastically change what this moment will be like in 2 weeks. Tech and Infra are lost at war. 1 nuke at this range takes out 80 tech, 17 of them (assuming something like three days before the clock counts) is 1360. 56 of those nations is 76,160 tech lost. If all our nations faced that, we'd lose 240,000 tech, but luckily some of them are in a lower range, so losses will be closer to 150k. But that's before factoring in all the ground battles, CM's, Planes and the nations with 1k tech getting attacked in a lower range. Your terms would put us at a point of having about 250 tech, and only 80 nations capable of even making a payment (and even those would soon run out). And you of all people should know that those few and battered nations would never be able to work at a 100% slot efficiency per month, even under the best of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 So what were the original reps demanded by Karma? I'm sure everyone is dying to know. Or will they remain unknown/ethereal so you can change it at will, like the "crimes" of NPO. If Karma is essentially of one mind on punishing NPO, I would have thought they would have sat down and come up with a clear list of grievances if only for the P.R. benefits that a clear reasoned list would provide. But that won't be answered so I guess I'm basically talking to myself with every post. Or i managed to get added to ignore status for several people. The reparations demanded from Pacifica have been stated publicly and will not change, unless Pacifica is intent on dragging this war out for an extended period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Keshav IV Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Well while I do see it a tad bit harsh, I do think this thread was a was a waste. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeta Defender Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 What's a modifies ? And they involved with the High Court? Did you install them after your war with GATO or after your war with the English language? I will only say that if you know me, you know I can't spell when typing fast esp when this thread is moving faster than I can type. Also we did not install them, it was an idea from one of GATO members. Ask them if you wants specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sileath Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 will end here by saying when a government loses over half their leaders, something is not right. Where's Zhadum? On my last trip to the NPO forums (last night) I saw that he holds a high government rank - Imperial Counselor. I'd like to see his thoughts on this. Please tell him that I would like him to post here with his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desperado Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Total Money: $1,113,857,551Total Money: $1,267,529,738 Total Money: $1,699,932,018 Total Money: $1,136,036,247 Total Money: $1,711,792,074 Total Money: $1,421,839,591 Total Money: $1,244,063,943 Total Money: $1,938,438,773 Total Money: $1,043,641,046 Total Money: $1,930,090,228 Total Money: $1,194,043,392 Total Money: $2,328,024,511 Total Money: $1,171,050,808 Total Money: $1,176,646,437 Total Money: $1,308,527,513 Total Money: $1,267,529,738 Total Money: $1,100,891,822 Total Money: $1,346,086,976 . Clearly the NPO can't afford to pay off reps. [/sarcasm] Yeah, admin limited the amount of aid slots. What gives?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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