Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Matthew Conrad]

Karma IS a bloc. It's bloc'ier than a lego person Tetris convention.

Johnathan Brookbank.... Okay... How is that EZI?

He rerolled under the same name?

(As far as I know)

Is it that difficult to find him?

Yo, use a different name. Simple.

Any other cases? Even ol' Johnny said Karma took things a step too far, and you ("Karma") publicly chastised him for it, and wished (publicly) that they'd not defended him. Wow.

I appreciate your efforts to help keep me educated, but you don't have to be a snob about it.

If you're really too confused to understand the connection I'll put it through a train of thought. EZI=eternal zero infrastructure=zero infrastructure through rerolls=Johnathon Brookband was EZI'd=He rerolled=he was still under ZI=EZI

Understand now? You asked for an example of EZI and I gave it to you. By your response, I'm beginning to wonder if you ever actually knew what it was.

How he behaves IC has no bearing on the status of EZI. He's stepped on many toes and has insulted Karma (many of whom supported him through his ordeal). Whether we defend his character now doesn't affect the fact that we don't want him in EZI.

[PrideAssassin]

So... anybody? Anyone at all have a response to this GW I nonsense you keep citing?

The man who headed that is now firmly entrenched with "Karma" bloc Alliances.

Good show.

[Sulmar]

After 34 pages, the lesson of this thread is that Pacifica and friends have not yet been sufficiently humbled and that the enmity and rancor displayed by their members (who have, for the most part, been gagged for the better part of the last two months) should be a warning that letting them off with lesser terms will be seen as foolishness, not kindness; and likely be answered with hostility and aggression as soon as they are capable of it.

Yes! How dare those members speak out against these terms! What the hell were they doing, its almost like they think other ideas are allowed on the OWF!

[enderland]

It is not okay and we worked hard to end it. But to say it is unending is not true as it is over.

The reason it is over is that those in power to continue it no longer were able to do so.

This would indicate nothing wrong with the current war against Pacifica, as the time will (maybe?) come when the alliances attacking her are unable to continue to enforce their war.

[Alterego]

Change your AA and I will be of your service

If you want a 1 v 1 it can be arranged without dropping AAs. All I need is 2 weeks to get up to 25 nukes and special dispensation from the people we surrendered to let me buy 25 nukes.

[enderland]

Yes! How dare those members speak out against these terms! What the hell were they doing, its almost like they think other ideas are allowed on the OWF!

Well when an alliance has lost, normally you act as such instead of pretending to be in a position of power.

You can read my post on the previous page for a longer explanation.

[Alterego]

I love these eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth philosophies. Actually we are all civilized rulers on this planet but when it comes to the New Pacific Order we act driven by our hate and our emotions. I don't see a peaceful solution for this war anytime soon, so in the end, this will end up being an eternal war, and you will become what you accuse them of.

They are already there.

[PrideAssassin]

If you're really too confused to understand the connection I'll put it through a train of thought. EZI=eternal zero infrastructure=zero infrastructure through rerolls=Johnathon Brookband was EZI'd=He rerolled=he was still under ZI=EZI

Understand now? You asked for an example of EZI and I gave it to you. By your response, I'm beginning to wonder if you ever actually knew what it was.

How he behaves IC has no bearing on the status of EZI. He's stepped on many toes and has insulted Karma (many of whom supported him through his ordeal). Whether we defend his character now doesn't affect the fact that we don't want him in EZI.

Er... Psssst.... Not changing at all on a reroll = same nation, same PZI list. Not even a name change? Is this the ONLY example you have?

NPO kept on some dude that didn't change the fundamental basis of his nation or even his information (which you don't need IP's to track...) By not adressing that point, I assume you consent that i am correct on those details.

Any other instances? 'Cause your argument's lookin' pretty weak here.

[Sulmar]

This game is a politic simulator, although of course lots of people play it for the sake of warfare. In order to protect the weaker ones, action against the NPO had to be taken

Thanks for saying I was right.

[Hiro Nakara]

Blah blah.... Who headed gov at that time?

Oh yeah, you're sleeping with him.

I LOL'd at this post, [OOC]--------how old are you ? You really have no clue whats being said to you, do you ?

Edited June 13, 2009 by HiroNakara

[Azaghul]

Being a Green Protection Agency member years ago, I remember Azaghul being in my alliance and he was the leader. his words caused me to quit CN and today I hear about the news of New Pacific Order and see Azaghul's words in this forum and i think about how he changed so much. didnt you even learn a thing from being in Green Protection Agency.

I was never the leader of GPA, or even close to it.

Edit: Your name sounds familiar but I don't remember exactly why.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Azaghul

[mhawk]

I do not believe for a second that they are honestly admitting mistakes.

I guess that's what happens when you preach arrogance for years, it makes it rather hard to accept the fact that you might be humble (especially given the fact that NPO will not accept terms).

You make the argument that not accepting terms indicates one is not humble?

If the terms were ten trillion dollars to be paid in 5 days. If they did not accept those terms would it be not humble? We all have lines we draw, and to stand by principles (not expelling members that have served for 3 years because it would help get peace faster) instead of yield immediately it not a sign of arrogance. To present the largest terms in history x 7 and say it is lenient and merciful is arrogant. To counter offer HIGHer reps, dissolve their highest regarded doctrine that has been in place for 3 years, and to apologize to gato are not arrogant actions.

[Doitzel]

Nope, the masses arent 100% active, and it would take considerably more than 5 minutes. Try eternity. Part of the success of the NPO is that we allow members to play this game at any activity level they desire, whether they just want to log in once a week and have fun, or get fully involved in world politics. You cant honestly say we have every NPO member ready, active, and compliant to do Moo's whims in "5 minutes."

You've let your standards fall a great deal. In my day it was six seconds, nevermind this 5 minutes garbage.

To be frank, NPO is still firmly in sanction position. I think you need to come out and fight this war but I also think that reparation amounts should be put off from finalisation until you've actually done so and the damage has been assessed. I think this would have happened if you'd asked (hey, maybe it has, I haven't read the whole thread).

I have a few words for those of you who are threatening to stiffen the terms on NPO for making this public, though: get a grip. The court of public opinion has been the most potent weapon wielded against the NPO. If you can't defend your actions in the place most hostile to them then there is something severely wrong with what you're doing. Let me say plainly that I did not fight for a world where opening information for the public discourse was grounds for punitive recourse, especially between two warring alliances. Or perhaps you've all forgotten how we got here, already?

Remember our last. Remember.

[mhawk]

The reason it is over is that those in power to continue it no longer were able to do so.

This would indicate nothing wrong with the current war against Pacifica, as the time will (maybe?) come when the alliances attacking her are unable to continue to enforce their war.

Then where would you stand on that? Lets say a year from now would you oppose vanguard over this?

[Matthew Conrad]

Er... Psssst.... Not changing at all on a reroll = same nation, same PZI list. Not even a name change? Is this the ONLY example you have?

NPO kept on some dude that didn't change the fundamental basis of his nation or even his information (which you don't need IP's to track...) By not adressing that point, I assume you consent that i am correct on those details.

Any other instances? 'Cause your argument's lookin' pretty weak here.

You really don't understand what EZI is do you?

[enderland]

Any other instances? 'Cause your argument's lookin' pretty weak here.

Seems that only you think that.

[PrideAssassin]

I LOL'd at this post, [OOC]--------how old are you ? You really have no clue whats being said to you, do you ?

I'll bet you did.

Enlighten me.

[Shadow Khan]

Unending war carried out by NPO : its over

The wars with FAN and Vox may be over, but that doesn't mean they never happened. The only reason those two haven't been added to the disbanded list is because they managed to hang on long enough.

[PrideAssassin]

Seems that only you think that.

Seems you're full of it, and this EZI nonsense was a scam.

Anyone else?

Edited June 13, 2009 by PrideAssassin

[Xiphosis]

Those that whine about Karma being hypocrites: No one cares. No one. Alliances on the Karma side wanted war. War is about winning. These terms ensure victory so NPO can't come back knocking on our doors next month.

My FOK compatriot nails the reasoning behind these terms quite squarely on the head, so I shall leave it with:

I think you need to come out and fight this war but I also think that reparation amounts should be put off from finalisation until you've actually done so and the damage has been assessed.

That came up internally on the front, and there is a clause in the terms that mean the rep totals would be reassessed after the 2 weeks, depending on what and how much damage had been done.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Xiphosis

[PrideAssassin]

You really don't understand what EZI is do you?

certainly. Now provide me another example or kindly stand down.

[uaciaut]

It is not okay and we worked hard to end it. But to say it is unending is not true as it is over.

How did you work to end it when you continually supported them by keeping your treaty?

[muffasamini]

Of course you didn't, because they all left peace mode to be subjected to war and were therefore not subjected to perma ZI. Nice PR trick -

If NPO actually cared to do PR, we wouldnt be in this position. Times have changed, and after looking down the gun barrel its easy to see how no longer acceptable to force that upon people. You got what you wanted, and now its a PR stunt?

Azaghul, stop using logic These terms would be easily payable. Perhaps the NPO simply has no idea what it actually is like to massively rebuild from a war, or to use proper nation building techniques, so I'll let you in on a hint - if a nation has even 50M left after a war they can easily go to 3999 infra. Most of your nations have huge amounts of wonders and such. Rebuilding to the point where you can pay reps would be trivial, unless your alliance simply has such inadequate internal programs to rebuild. Then again, looking at GATO's rebuilding for over a year, I guess I can see why NPO would be worried....

We have stated our willingness to pay massive reps. Thats not why these negotiations failed.

Why should a bunch of n00b nations be responsible for paying for the NPO's mistakes. That term makes perfect sense to me: the nations in NPO that are more established (ie the larger ones) are the ones that have supported NPO in the past and are the ones that should attone for the mistakes and atrocities that the alliance has committed.

I am not a noob nation. Nor are a lot of them. And those that are signed up for the long haul, and are more than happy to help pay them. Just because a nation has a lower NS or tech count doesnt mean that it isnt complicit in our actions. Thats a cop-out, and its really not a pertinent argument to counter a logistical impossibility with an emotional desire.

NPO has to lose for Karma to be happy. Given their general arrogance and pride I doubt even paying this amount of reps would cause them to feel like they lost to be honest.

If you didnt catch it earlier, WE LOST.

[Blade 619]

Let me show you real math Trotskyrevenge. Cortath could not show us math that refuted our claims.

181 nations paying the reps.

2 slots each, 3 aid cycles per month.

3.258 billion per month, 54,000 tech per month

2.14 months to pay off money amont, 5.56 months to pay off tech amount

120 nations paying the reps.

2 slots each, 3 aid cycles per month.

2.16 billion per month, 36,000 tech per month

2.34 months to pay off money amount, 8.33 months to pay off tech amount

Even assuming that you would lose 1/3 of your nations that pay you could pay all of this off in a little over 8 months.

This petty PR stunt does nothing. The terms remain as they are, accept them when you are ready. The math does not lie.

Can you honestly say that you'd consider making an alliance under your control, who trust you to make the best descisions, spend 8.33 months paying vast sums of money and tech to someone they'd tried to destroy?

[Sulmar]

Well when an alliance has lost, normally you act as such instead of pretending to be in a position of power.

You can read my post on the previous page for a longer explanation.

Well, I have never been to the NPO forums, so I do not know what goes on there. If that is true, I say shame on NPO, but that still does not mean they are not allowed to express their opinions here.