Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[WorkingClassRuler]

Seems you're full of it, and this EZI nonsense was a scam.

Anyone else?

Please. Stop. Embarrassing. Yourself.

[Ramirus Maximus]

Firstly, what should be recognized is that you're creating two alliances, essentially. An alliance of 181 people that have to pay 300K tech, and the whole alliance that can pay the 7B/233.3K tech.

Pretty reasonable, go on.

This is mid-June. The New Pacific Order presently has orders for nations to be cycling in and out of peace mode as needed to lose nuclear anarchy.

Yeah, we heard that line a lot: "We're cycling in and out of peace mode". It never materialized. We were watching.

A significant point to consider also, is the number of ghosts in our alliance.

Are you Old Man Withers, the Director of the Haunted Amusement Park? Because suddenly I feel like I feel like I'm in a Scooby-Doo episode. Did you really just invent...the GHOST-DEFENSE!?

Karma isn't fools. They prepared these terms, and I assume they're prepared for war. We expect no less than 3v1 on our banking nations. Karma is 18 alliances on our front, and they can pick the choicest, elite fighters from their alliances to carefully plan and orchestrate an attack on a much smaller foe.

You are indeed a wise man.

So, let sum up war here. A nation at war will lose 9,840 infra, 2115.5 tech, and 5808 land.

Hmm...not quite, unless your nations are just hideously bad at war. It's not like they won't be fighting back. Is it?

Now, some people are going to claim "massive war chests." It ain't there people. 7 weeks of nuclear war, plus stints in PM, or for our banks, 7 weeks in PM, hurts those warchests a lot, even billion dollar warchests.

Our most recent data suggests otherwise. We gather information all the time though, so perhaps something has changed in the last 5 days.

18M/cycle just doesn't even take out a chunk of these types of reparations.

$18mil/cycle * say...300 nations? That's a pretty fair chunk every cycle.

Generally speaking, when one has had to give out reparations or produce tech, that tech can be funded somehow, or subsidized. No can-do here, because the banks are gone. Smaller nations are also not allowed to sell tech outside the NPO due to these terms.

Where'd the banks go? Oh that's right. They went to other AAs. Dantooine is too remote a location for an effective demonstration but I assure you we will deal with your friends soon enough. As for smaller nations not being allowed to sell tech...They can sell it inside the NPO just fine. That should make it easy for your large nations to send out your reps!

1. It assumes all 180 nations are active. Really, with programs like these, you can't expect much better than 50-60% activity.

Depends on who runs the program. I thought that NPO had 100% activity, with your hoards of loyal Francoists ready, willing, and able all the time? I'm sure there was something in there about "resolves" as well.

2. It assumes that every single slot will always be used, always.

No, actually it assumes no more than 3 slots per nation. We agreed to allow the other 3 to be used for your rebuilding. Edited June 13, 2009 by Ramirus Maximus

[Strykewolf]

Forgive me, killed is not the correct word. Dug up their corpse and took a !@#$ on it is the proper terminology.

And in the less derogatory term, they beat a dead horse.

We weren't quite dead.... And we had our own stupid things done in this world

You'll get yours. Your picking up a lot of 'bad karma' however long it takes. You have the lost the moral high ground. Karma are reduced to petty revenge, for interestingly, events which most of the karma alliances were not party too. Your doing this on 'their behalf'...

Most banking nations would go rogue before sitting there for two weeks getting beat on.

You obviously do not know the history of NPO. This is a reset. Feel free to ad me to your hate list. ((shrugs))

[mhawk]

The wars with FAN and Vox may be over, but that doesn't mean they never happened. The only reason those two haven't been added to the disbanded list is because they managed to hang on long enough.

I never said they didn't happen. The fact that they are over obviously would disprove the term "unending"

[Ramirus Maximus]

but we don't have nations who can either produce money or tech to send as reparations, particularly not when the Bank, which possibly could be used to fund a rebuilding/reparations effort, will have been destroyed by war.

Wellllll....no, not really. (this is where I say: "Warchests!" again).

It would be a monumental task to do either one of them, but it's entirely a different story to do both, particularly given that they both come from different sources due to the 1K+ tech restriction on where the 300K tech has to come from.

But! But! But! Pacifica can accomplish ANYTHING! What about your RESOLVE?!?!

The New Pacific Order seriously considered these terms. We went to the negotiation table about a month ago asking Karma alliances for terms to surrender.

Actually, it was about a month ago when your IOs were worried more about whether someone was rude to them than they were about what that someone could've offered you then: a way out. You chose your own path, and it had nothing to do with "good faith", but instead was steeped in aristocracy.

Why they did not take that counter-offer, I could not tell you.

I can: so that you can't get out of this by punishing your smallest nations. It would be the height of cowardice for you to force the weakest among you to shoulder the burden of these or any reps, yet without these terms we know that's exactly what you would do.

[Alterego]

Seems you're full of it, and this EZI nonsense was a scam.

Anyone else?

They (Karma bloc) still do EZI while at the same time are forcing others to stop the practice. Why are you surprised?

[PrideAssassin]

The wars with FAN and Vox may be over, but that doesn't mean they never happened. The only reason those two haven't been added to the disbanded list is because they managed to hang on long enough.

Right. Because FAN and Vox were not griefers?

[enderland]

You make the argument that not accepting terms indicates one is not humble?

If the terms were ten trillion dollars to be paid in 5 days. If they did not accept those terms would it be not humble? We all have lines we draw, and to stand by principles (not expelling members that have served for 3 years because it would help get peace faster) instead of yield immediately it not a sign of arrogance. To present the largest terms in history x 7 and say it is lenient and merciful is arrogant. To counter offer HIGHer reps, dissolve their highest regarded doctrine that has been in place for 3 years, and to apologize to gato are not arrogant actions.

Somehow I don't think the large number of alliances NPO fought over the past years had much say in the breakdown of their surrender terms.

And yes, in this instance, I think that NPO needs to be humbled greatly for this war to have had any effect on their operating policies, which reading this thread clearly has not occured.

NPO can negotiate I guess when they are in a position to do so. REgarding the doctrine, this appears to have been voluntarily canceled, as well as the "apology" to GATO (which I do not buy for a second as being truthful, but instead an appeal to players to not let NPO suffer the same fate).

[Denniswerf]

If you want a 1 v 1 it can be arranged without dropping AAs. All I need is 2 weeks to get up to 25 nukes and special dispensation from the people we surrendered to let me buy 25 nukes.

First you wish me best luck, then you come with excusese like 'I need 2 weeks to get up to 25 nukes...' and 'Special dispensation'.

Just leave the AA and fight me? Why would you care about your surrender, just do what you believe in

[Matthew Conrad]

certainly. Now provide me another example or kindly stand down.

Another case of what? You do realize your own alliance and NPO said JB was on their EZI lists right? Are you really trying to disprove it's existence?

[Deadshot]

Those that whine about Karma being hypocrites: No one cares. No one. Alliances on the Karma side wanted war. War is about winning. These terms ensure victory so NPO can't come back knocking on our doors next month. It will put them back in time (or stop progressing) so they will always be hindered by this defeat. Since being being on the losing side should actually make you feel like a loser and make you loose. Loose a lot. Opposed to the 'Let's fight a week to get the warmongers off our back, say how honorable we all are and go back to buying infra' mentality that has infected CN (as clearly shown in the first week of this war).

Assuming this is true, then why !@#$%* about anything NPO did? They were simply removing what they deemed as threats and making sure they wouldn't come back in a month and strike again.

If it isn't right for NPO, is sure as hell isn't right for you. You are claiming it is.

[Doitzel]

You all disgust me.

Would you can it already? If you wanted a say in the way things went maybe you should've displayed -- in a breakthrough of talent as yet untapped -- a bit of bloody follow-through. Your condescension without participation or input undermines everything you have to say to the point that you should just... Stop. Talking.

[Ramirus Maximus]

Tech for nations over 100 is ridiculously expensive, and our entire technology system relies on small nation procurers.

Once you have paid enough reps to be below 100 tech, then tech will be cheap for you again.

[PrideAssassin]

Please. Stop. Embarrassing. Yourself.

Please. Provide. A. Valid. Example. To. Where. Someone. Attempted. To. Avoid. PZI. And. Was. Hunted. Down. By. Their. IP. Number> As. Karma. Has. Claimed. Incessantly.

[mhawk]

How did you work to end it when you continually supported them by keeping your treaty?

By working to set up talks and discussions with fan and npo. By supporting and defending nations attacked as "fan banks" in private and getting those issues dropped. By bringing up the issue repeatedly. Without a doubt the war would have gone on longer than had we not retained our treaty.

[AbysmalPea]

Fortunately, history is no longer being written by those with a self-serving agenda. There is a very long and documented chronology of what NPO did and exactly why this punishment (barely) fits the crime.

NPO will get no pity points for finally meeting its comeuppance.

History is always written by those with a self-serving agenda. Happiness, peace, and prosperity only last as long as it takes for a man with a political mind and a desire for power to join up and start wreaking havoc. And NPO is already getting pity points. Most Karma alliances certainly aren't handing out any, but those previously allied to the NPO continue to sympathize.

[Xiphosis]

If you didnt catch it earlier, WE LOST.

Not enough. The point of victory is not to leave enemies able to recover in a quick fashion, and Pacifica most certainly can. I'm so sorry, but we're not dumb enough to half-$@! someone like Pacific.

[Daimos]

You talk as if everyone in Karma alliances was complicit in 'Pax Pacifica', more than a few of us have felt the jackboot on our heads more than once.

I am sure there were a minority who oppose the NPO of their ways back than. I am talking about an opposition this magnitude i.e. majority of the CN community. Took them long enough.

Btw, Mabuhay Pilipinas!

[enderland]

By working to set up talks and discussions with fan and npo. By supporting and defending nations attacked as "fan banks" in private and getting those issues dropped. By bringing up the issue repeatedly. Without a doubt the war would have gone on longer than had we not retained our treaty.

So you are saying that it was not even NPO responsible for getting peace in those wars?

[Balkan Banania]

I think we are loosing the big picture here.

As specifically stated in the OP, Pacifica was expecting draconian terms and was ready to accept them. The only problem is the term concerning the 90% of the alliance leaving PM (including 90% of nations with infra>4000) and withstand a 14 days nuclear war. As discussed by noob5 and Cortath an alliance of 700+ nations and ghosts is rather difficult to reassure that 90% of all the nations wearing its name are out of PM. It is obvious that the 14 days can be easily become 20 or 30 as people are delaying to go out of PM, others are deleting their nations and others are just ghosts. Also I would be grateful if our Mathematician overlord Ramirus Maximus can commend on both Cortath and noob5 posts as they seem to be overlooked by many. (Cortath post , noob5 post).

Apart from that, as a soldier of Pacifica I have to say that I like these terms as they give us no other option but to keep fighting.

Concerning LoveaLot post, I have to say that ES (yes the one you are now hailing) was calling for NAAC disbandment, also we never fought against GOONS and Genmay. We are responsible for many things but we are not responsible for everything in CN. To blame Pacifica for everything seems to be the trend nowadays, especially since Tyga, ES, Ivan et al. are raiding the Karma mobile.

[PrideAssassin]

Another case of what? You do realize your own alliance and NPO said JB was on their EZI lists right? Are you really trying to disprove it's existence?

IRON has never maintained an EZI list.

He was on our PZI list. Yes.

This EZI nonsense is just that, nonsense. Now kindly provide another example or admit you're incorrect and followed baseless propoganda...

[enderland]

I'm sure if you gave Karma a list of which nations are ghosts you could work something out with respect to that.

I'm sure Karma would love to help ghostbust after the war is over.

[uaciaut]

By working to set up talks and discussions with fan and npo. By supporting and defending nations attacked as "fan banks" in private and getting those issues dropped. By bringing up the issue repeatedly. Without a doubt the war would have gone on longer than had we not retained our treaty.

How did GATO get it's viceroy removed not a few weeks after Q started falling apart and NPO started losing individual MDP's then?

[enderland]

IRON has never maintained an EZI list.

He was on our PZI list. Yes.

This EZI nonsense is just that, nonsense. Now kindly provide another example or admit you're incorrect and followed baseless propoganda...

"we never did EZI, just PZI!"

...

[WorkingClassRuler]

Please. Provide. A. Valid. Example. To. Where. Someone. Attempted. To. Avoid. PZI. And. Was. Hunted. Down. By. Their. IP. Number> As. Karma. Has. Claimed. Incessantly.

I'm not getting on the merry-go-round of stupid with you, I'm pointing out that your posts and attitude in this thread are embarrassing and you are only further embarrassing yourself by continuing. If you think you're winning this "argument", you are wrong.