Biggest alliance mess up of all time?

[Steelrat]

I actually laughed when I read that. It's hilarious how some alliances are still unwilling to admit that they took part in spying and received information from spies. It's not a secret and it's just laughable to deny it at this point. Leaked screenshots indeed.

I never denied that, how in hell i should have so much knowledge about polars internals back then? I thought it was blantant obvious that i had access to "leaked screeenshots". I called out NPO for attacking OV over that as hypocrites on a private board and i think even on OWF.

Yes at the time Polar wasn't a big fan of the Citadel and would have relished the opportunity to kill you. That doesn't mean, however, that there was some sort of plan designed to bring that about. It was more of a "When these guys screw up, let's bury them." You know kind of like the Citadel took advantage of Polar screwing up and launched a massive curbstomp against them last summer?

Standard procedure in CN . CN is like diving with Sharks, you can do that as long as you watch your back and they aren´t hungry.

Yeah, hey, good point FF. Isn't TOP guilty of the same thing they're crying about Polar being ready to do? No big deal, the plans to roll them are proceeding swimmingly!¹

¹lol

Also,

Expect charges to be filed in the High Court of Wigglage for a repeat offense of Failure to Fail, Fallen Fail.

Sincerely,

Justice Sponge

Wait what? Now being smart is an offense to you, way to go Mr. ES.

[Chickenzilla]

Wait what? Now being smart is an offense to you, way to go Mr. ES.

It's a joke?

[Feanor Noldorin]

Yes at the time Polar wasn't a big fan of the Citadel and would have relished the opportunity to kill you. That doesn't mean, however, that there was some sort of plan designed to bring that about. It was more of a "When these guys screw up, let's bury them." You know kind of like the Citadel took advantage of Polar screwing up and launched a massive curbstomp against them last summer?

That is exactly how I saw it. Whoever made a mistake was going to get hit.

[President Obama]

I may not be actively pursuing Citadel's downfall (not that I ever was anyway, and Citadel are doing a good enough job of it on their own)

I don't see any chance of that in the near future, but perhaps I'm as blind as the NPO when it comes to this.

Edited June 10, 2009 by President Obama

[hizzy]

I don't see any chance of that in the near future, but perhaps I'm as blind as the NPO when it comes to this.

This actually reminds me of the absolute biggest screw up people make in this game;

assuming "it" will never happen to them.

Far too many folks take their allies and position for granted.

[Essenia]

The whole going after TOP thing is a load. I was in .gov and there was no such actions being planned. I'll give you that ES' grave comment was rather over the top, but that's as far as that went.

Respect is an earned quantity, Crymson. You earned quite the opposite given your actions during the recent conflict. Here's a little clue for you as a neophyte leader in this game - when your alliance says it is going to be neutral, be neutral. Don't go sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. I know that little episode with AiD's withdrawal and the threats against GATO were something you among others were machinating behind the scenes. I consider it a highly unfriendly act for an alliance which was purporting itself to be neutral. I told one of your people at the time that I wouldn't forget it. Guess what? You won yourself a ticket onto my bad side! In case you aren't familiar with my bad side, that's where nations and alliances go to die. (That is, unless they are smart and find a way out.)

You played a dangerous game during the war. You had to know there would be consequences. Welcome to the consequences. We're just getting warmed up.

The only way I think anyone can read that is as a direct threat. You can say it was just posturing, but that's hardly a good excuse. This was when Sponge was emperor of NpO as well (should be obvious, but just being clear).

Edited June 10, 2009 by essenia

[Dr. Dan]

This actually reminds me of the absolute biggest screw up people make in this game;

assuming "it" will never happen to them.

Far too many folks take their allies and position for granted.

Don't worry, my dear Hizzy, there is plenty of paranoia.

Or is that the other mistake in this game? :S

[avernite]

The only way I think anyone can read that is as a direct threat. You can say it was just postuing, but that's hardly a good excuse. This was when Sponge was emperor of NpO as well (should be obvious, but just being clear).

I do still love how we have yet to die from that bad side, although I am sure we will die eventually and people will be there to remember that quote (seeing as everyone still remembers GW1).

And I think a few NpO-friendly posters are misinterpreting what we're saying. We're not all saying 'we were right to attack the NpO', instead we are saying 'it wasn't because of the NPO that we wanted to kill you'. At least, that's how I would sum it up.

RE: ES wanting us gone but not working towards it: sorry, but given your track record it's probably a better idea to make plans at the point you would like to see us gone rather than making our move when you start working towards it; we've all recently seen again that you're quite apt at making it happen when you work for it

[Electron Sponge]

The only way I think anyone can read that is as a direct threat. You can say it was just postuing, but that's hardly a good excuse. This was when Sponge was emperor of NpO as well (should be obvious, but just being clear).

See, this is the second time someone in this thread has quoted me out of context. The post in question is here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=112281

My comments in that thread gave voice to the frustrations of a lot of alliance leaders from the ~ coalition and were pretty roundly cheered among them. You have to remember that at that time Polaris was at war, and TOP had run interference for the other side and had threatened to join the war if GATO didn't back out. Looking back on it now, I should have told them to go ahead and do it. We had more than enough firepower to deal with TOP. The statement I made wasn't much of a threat at all, it was simply stating that TOP had acted in an unfriendly and provocative manner during the Unjust War and that they were not going to ever have good relations with Polar again as a result. That is, unless they cleaned up their act and stopped with the backroom shenanigans. As we can see by what has gone on in this latest war, they certainly haven't stopped. One of these days TOP is going to have their knife at the wrong back, and it'll be the slow ride to the bottom for them. Refer back to my earlier statement about grave dancing.

Remember a few pages back in this thread where we were talking about how big of a mistake it was for NPO to lose Polaris as an ally? How it's always nice to have that extra strength hanging around that you can always count on? TOP made the same mistake letting Continuum burn. Citadel doesn't put nearly the fear into people that Continuum did. If there's paranoia there it's with good cause. Unlike NPO's situation, there's no real good solution to TOP's lack of a meat shield other than diplomacy with people who probably would rather see TOP burn. Alternatively they could bide their time and try and assemble some of their former allies back together in a Q-Lite type bloc, but I'm not sure how receptive those alliances are going to be or how reliable they'd be in the long term. Granted, given the top-heavy nature of TOP's alliance rankings they'll always be a tough nut to crack. I know of quite a few people who already have ideas on how to crack that nut. That isn't saying my alliance, my allies or I have anything to do with planning a war on TOP. If I were actually planning something like that the last place I'd be talking about it is here, before TOP gets its knickers in a twist and decides to start another war without casus belli.

By the way Avernite I still want TOP gone, are you just going to keep attacking the alliances I'm a member of until I stop disliking you? Do you see the problem with your preemptive philosophy? It looked bad when Bush did it and it looked bad when TOP did it too.

[Essenia]

Out of context? That's laughable The thread only makes things worse for you, as it's clear that you simply wanted a public fight. I know well what went on (I was TOP government during the part of the UJW) and while you had real reason to be angry that doesn't change the fact that when you publically declare that an alliance is on your bad side and that alliances on your bad side don't survive (this only a month after the UJW) people are going to that very seriously. I am not judging the rightness or wrongess of your opinions in regards to TOP (that's another thread), simply stating that to not call what you posted a threat is absurd.

Edited June 10, 2009 by essenia

[Bob Janova]

Oh hey it's this argument again.

Well Sponge, it was my grave and I'm still here and you rerolled, so I won .

I'm really not getting into the 'reasons for hitting NpO' argument again, you can go reread our DoW thread or a thousand others from 2008.

[scythegfx]

Illuminati. Lol.

thats gotta be up there

[Steelrat]

snip

First, UJW. Grämlins were involved in this AiD/GATO/FOK thing too, if TOP would have entered we would have entered. Grämlins had very close contacts to FOK too, although we weren´t allied at that time. If i remember right Jmm did a lot of stuff on the AiD front + AiD/Mordd owed me/Grämlins a favor back then. So you made the right decision to let it go.

Second, you seem to have only a slight idea how different NPO and TOP are and i´m glad you have as you would !@#$ bricks if you knew how close TOP and it´s allies are. One ex Vallahallian now in TOP pointed it out. "I never before saw such heated but open discussions between allies".

That doesn´t mean we follow each other blind. Clearly not as you can see in the last war.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Steelrat

[kobiashiy]

Funny: Is HALO 2.0?

[Duncan King]

Browncoats vs. BDC fake war was hilarious.

This. The dumbest thing I've ever seen in CN.

Also good was BenPG announcing GATO's surrender in GW2 before the alliance had actually surrendered. GATO then had to retract that surrender and then surrendered again a few hours later.

[Feanor Noldorin]

Granted, given the top-heavy nature of TOP's alliance rankings they'll always be a tough nut to crack. I know of quite a few people who already have ideas on how to crack that nut.

Good to know that I'm not hording up all my money for nothing.

[Bob Janova]

Yeah that $60m will really come in handy

[jaaku]

Yeah that $60m will really come in handy

after talking with a lot of TOP folks, I wouldn't be surprised if you intended that m to be a b

also, +2 respect to steelrat and whatnot, about time someone said that.

[shahman]

Don't know if its already said but...

DoEs...they are horrible.

Alliances should just pop up and slowly integrate into the world community.

[Assington]

You may not had a detailed "secret kill TOP plan" but Polar would have jumped on TOP/Citadel any second you had a chance. Do i have you to remind Polars support/pushing in the 2nd Green drama? You clearly prepared for war and even announced it on your forum.

Of course we didn't like TOP, they were trolling the !@#$ out of anything related to Polar. Whether we would have actually rolled on them or not is pure conjecture on your part and thus irrelevant.

We were prepared to assist GGA in a situation where we thought they were being hard done by. Sure we didn't have a great opinion of Citadel but that doesn't mean we pushed for war simply because Citadel was on the other side.

You assume too much and know too little.

[Feanor Noldorin]

Yeah that $60m will really come in handy

Stop telling everyone my secrets.

[astronaut jones]

I never denied that, how in hell i should have so much knowledge about polars internals back then? I thought it was blantant obvious that i had access to "leaked screeenshots". I called out NPO for attacking OV over that as hypocrites on a private board and i think even on OWF.

Standard procedure in CN . CN is like diving with Sharks, you can do that as long as you watch your back and they aren´t hungry.

Wait what? Now being smart is an offense to you, way to go Mr. ES.

I don't think anyone is accusing TOP of being smart, here.

[Totila]

The PR Disaster of that war was the Attack by Valhalla and freinds on GR

Suddenly due to there crass actions and dodgy CB we had a major PR disaster on the edge of what should have been a clean war that muddied up the causes and justifacation for fighting and left a bad taste in eveybodies mouth

Still doesn't change the fact that the war was unnecessary. The threat that they posed to Citadel was so small that the war wasn't even worth gaining the Polar members' enmity. All 700+ members of Polar wouldn't have wanted your destruction.

[Totila]

This man is a GENIUS...and I mean that sincerely. Foresight FTW!

Thank you.

Sorry, but that is not how it works. NPO got itself diplomatically isolated in less than 24 hours of war, does that mean all the alliances attacking it should have gone "looks like mission accomplished guys, time to go home!"

NPO's case was different since they were the agressors. But from what little I know, I think they should have been given lenient peace terms and let off after that mass cancellation. Nearly every alliance in CN has allies and not even the top alliance could do anything to any of them without friends. All that a diplomatically isolated NPO could've done is lie low and try to gain some new friends. CnG has shown that one can do it even after near total destruction. That they were absolutely beaten could only have helped them gain friends, since they were seen as *victims*

[Essenia]

NPO's case was different since they were the agressors. But from what little I know, I think they should have been given lenient peace terms and let off after that mass cancellation. Nearly every alliance in CN has allies and not even the top alliance could do anything to any of them without friends. All that a diplomatically isolated NPO could've done is lie low and try to gain some new friends. CnG has shown that one can do it even after near total destruction. That they were absolutely beaten could only have helped them gain friends, since they were seen as *victims*

I think this classic quote expresses my sentiments on NPO's predicament quite well,

"Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.""

Just substitute admin for God and pixels for blood and switch a few dates and there you have it. I don't really despise NPO nor do I want to see them cease to exist as an alliance, but what they have done must be repaid